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Old 04-16-2023, 06:28 PM   #1
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THOR #29450
2 questions 200A

With the 200 Amp Li On package and 2 alternators does anyone know the capacity of those alternators?
Question 2, is there an outside shower?
I am picking mine up this week, it is the 20A with the pop top! 2023

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Old 04-16-2023, 11:02 PM   #2
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The alternator (UHG - under hood generator) is a Balmar 170amp with a specific mounting, this one charges the lithium.

Cold water sprayer in the rear, no hot water on the outside.

Folks have mod'ed the sewer hose door to add hot/cold, since all of the plumbing for the Truma is in that area.

Good luck, spend time on each and every component before you leave the dealer.

Ron
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Old 04-16-2023, 11:22 PM   #3
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Even the Balmar alternator with its heavier windings, better fan and heavier diodes, can’t run at 100% output for long. I have had them on boats and the temp sensor cuts the output in half after a few minutes.

Does your Balmar have a temp sensor? It attaches to the alternator case and connects to the external regulator. I hope you have the external regulator.

David
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Old 04-16-2023, 11:23 PM   #4
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Thank you for the reply

I appreciate your reply. I am gaining confidence in the van as I gain knowledge.
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Old 04-16-2023, 11:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DavidEM View Post
Even the Balmar alternator with its heavier windings, better fan and heavier diodes, can’t run at 100% output for long. I have had them on boats and the temp sensor cuts the output in half after a few minutes.

Does your Balmar have a temp sensor? It attaches to the alternator case and connects to the external regulator. I hope you have the external regulator.

David
I am new to Alternator charging. I have always had a gas powered generator to run high amperage items such as an Air Conditioner or Microwave.
I just purchased this van, it seems to run the AC fine for the short periods I have used it for. I plan on calling Balmar tomorrow to get the info from them directly. Thanks
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Old 04-17-2023, 11:14 PM   #6
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As DavidEM mentioned, check for the temp sensor. It will be a gray wire with a lug bolted directly to the Balmar alternator. It is definitely one of the more important sensors in the system.

Antidotally, my rig came with that sensor not connected...just dangling - someone forgot to hook it up. I actually thought it was completely missing, bought a sensor and ended up returning it when I found the assembly just wasn't completed. Kinda of a blessing, the regulator alternator sense wire was not connected either, that kept the regulator from turning on...so my drive home from the dealer (6hrs) I had no charging, but had the sense wire been connected, that probably would have burned up the alternator with no temp feedback.

As designed, a well maintained Pentastar engine, can run at idle until you run out of gas without damage to the engine or battery system. I confirmed this will several Promaster experts and I know the battery system inside and out.

The Balmar regulator monitors the alternator temp. Properly configured, the regulator will moderate the output as the temperature fluctuates, maintaining a safe operating temp and max possible output.

I don't know if because the alternator is exposed to air flow or ??, but this weekend, I ran my batteries down to near 70% SOC (200ah - (200ah * .7)=60ah used). I saw the charge current around 150amps for about 20mins, the current dropped to 50amps after 25mins and within the next 5mins it was at 0 (fully charged). The alternator can put out 170max at idle, so at 150amps it might have been throttled by the regulator.

Next time out, I'll monitor the alternator temp, field percentage and output. I have the Balmar bluetooth gateway installed, so I can see all the params and values on the phone app. I know the Balmar displays a bit of info about the alternator, but can't recall what values it shows. The regulator does have a display that cycles through the params and values, if you need to monitor the details.

I think the math is close...

150amps for 20mins - is 50ah delivered more or less, and the other 10ah or so in the last 10mins at a lower charge rate.

So give or take, 30mins to get from 70% to full charge.

Hope that helps.

Ron
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Old 04-21-2023, 03:35 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by RonRM View Post

…..cut….

I don't know if because the alternator is exposed to air flow or ??, but this weekend, I ran my batteries down to near 70% SOC (200ah - (200ah * .7)=60ah used). I saw the charge current around 150amps for about 20mins, the current dropped to 50amps after 25mins and within the next 5mins it was at 0 (fully charged). The alternator can put out 170max at idle, so at 150amps it might have been throttled by the regulator.

…..cut….

I think the math is close...

150amps for 20mins - is 50ah delivered more or less, and the other 10ah or so in the last 10mins at a lower charge rate.

So give or take, 30mins to get from 70% to full charge.

Hope that helps.

Ron

Ron, that’s pretty fast charging rate

I’m curious if you were driving or stationary during your test, and what the approximate ambient temperature was. I suppose cool days would charge faster than hot ones, though it may not make a huge difference.


Regarding the OEM alternator, RAM ProMaster standard is 180A, and they offer 220A option. I presume Thor does not tie into OEM chassis electrical system for charging lithium batteries when they add a second 12VDC dedicated alternator for the house, so expect they would not specify the higher-cost 220-Amp option. Is that correct? Do you have 180A chassis alternator, and is it “not” used to power house loads?
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Old 04-22-2023, 02:08 PM   #8
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Yep, the Balmar is designed to output near 125amps (max 170amp) at around 2250RPM (more or less engine idle)

The Relion LT-100's can take charge @100amp continuous (each), so within spec.

I was driving, and it was around 70f.

The whole system is externally regulated, the field is regulated by both voltage thresholds and temp...that's what keeps it from burning up. I've measured the case temp around 200f on a hot day, operating temp is 180f max is 225f. As the temp goes up the regulator backs off the field, so as long as the temp sensor is working...all good.

Ron
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Old 04-22-2023, 03:43 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by RonRM View Post

…..cut….

I was driving, and it was around 70f.

…..cut….

Ron
Thanks. I was curious since some van owners have reported that under-hood temperatures on warm days can get high if idling for long periods in one place. Some say that opening hood helps by venting engine compartment in those rare cases.

If I owned such a van/system, I can’t think of when I would charge for long periods while parked/stationary. I expect I would be driving most all the time when charging. Even for vans with larger +/- 600 Ah (~7.7 kWh) of battery capacity, I can’t imagine needing to idle in one place for hours very often, if ever.

Thanks again.
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Old 04-23-2023, 12:16 PM   #10
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Typically, driving takes care of the charging.

The stock 190W solar barely keeps up with the fridge when parked and no hookups.

Without hookups, I'll idle the engine to run the A/C if needed. The A/C will run for just under 2hrs (continuous) on 200ah's. Probably takes about the same to recharge, so idling nearly balances it out. The engine fan is pretty loud, that has to be considered, depending where we are - I act accordingly if there are generator hours or people close by.

Second mod I did, add second panel and put in 30amp solar controller that has the capability of charging two separate battery banks (house/chassis).

The system as installed works, but it's not an ideal design. I made a few tweaks, and fee much better about it.


Ron.
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Old 04-24-2023, 04:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRM View Post

…..cut….

Without hookups, I'll idle the engine to run the A/C if needed. The A/C will run for just under 2hrs (continuous) on 200ah's. Probably takes about the same to recharge, so idling nearly balances it out. The engine fan is pretty loud, that has to be considered, depending where we are - I act accordingly if there are generator hours or people close by.

….cut….

Ron.
Ron, when you idle van to recharge batteries after they have depleted powering roof-top air conditioner, do you shut off rooftop A/C and cool with chassis dash only, or do you keep rooftop A/C on? Or do you run both A/Cs?

Just curious if chassis dash A/C can cool entire van, and whether running dash A/C while idling adds a lot of noise (I’m assuming engine fan comes on for condenser, but it may come on anyway to cool engine).

Anyway, mostly curious if turning off rooftop RV A/C makes a big difference in charge time since A/C likely pulls around 100 Amps at 13~14 Volts while idling to recharge.
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Old 04-24-2023, 05:35 PM   #12
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I usually have both on.

I'll give it a try with just the engine a/c, as that would improve the charge time as there would be no roof top a/c load.

My guess is that the dash a/c would do just fine cooling the van, as that's normally is the way we go down the road and I get no complaints from DW.

That's a good catch. Makes me think a routine like, run roof A/C till batteries get down to 25%, run engine w/Dash A/C (will cool and charge)...rinse repeat; would be about as efficient as possible.

I never measured the fuel consumptions at idle...planning on that soon, as we are packing and making last min mods (put the front Sumo's springs on today). The Balmar specs say 5hp to spin the UHG, but no idea how that translates to fuel consumption.


Ron
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