After finding wiring messes, disconnected wires and the regulator not working (alternator not charging as a result) I wanted to be sure I understood the regulator programming and system behavior.
Just a note: you don't need the gateway to read the params, they cycle through on the regulator display. I just didn't want to take the passenger bed apart every time I wanted to look at it. I just like tech, and had some extra Amazon points. This is the device https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KGV1W55...roduct_details
To that end, I installed the Balmar BlueTooth gateway device. Super simple install, find the Balmar display, get behind it and plug in the gateway and secure it (I used velcro).
From there install the app on your phone - works on Apple/Android.
The app can read all params from every device on the Balmar network - shunt, regulator, display. It can update firmware, and actually set params on the devices, specifically the regulator.
This install is in preparation to install the temp sensor on the alternator - feeding back temp information to the regulator is going to allow the regulator to maintain a safe alternator operating temp. Without the sensor, the alternator heats up to near or possibly beyond maximum operating temp. I'll post pics of that install when I get the sensor delivered.
These are the params read from the regulator (I've sent these to Balmar for review and suggestions). The regulator is certainly MISCONFIGURED, the battery type for sure is incorrect! I don't know how important that is, nonetheless, its WRONG! Gives me absolutely ZERO confidence in any of the other settings.
Program, UFP-CFP
Charging Station, Fixed Bulk
Regulator Temp, 30 � C
Calculated Tar. Voltage, 14.3
Regulator Soft Rev, 5.00
MAX Field %, 100
Regulator Hours, 5.1
Field Output %, 34
Small Engine Mode, 0
Battery Temp #1, 24 � C. --- see last few iines - shows these sensors missing
Alternator Temp #1, 28 � C
Battery Temp #2, Open
SLP, 0.0
Battery Type, UFP-CFP. --- this is WRONG and a concern it should be LiFePO
SmartLink Device ID, 129
Sensor Enforcement,
Long/Short Display, 0
Alternator Failure Advisory, 1
Start Delay, 1
High Voltage Limit, 14.5
Compensation Limit, 14.4
Bulk Voltage, 14.3
Bulk Time, 0.1
Absorb Voltage, 14.2
Absorb Time, 0.2
Float Voltage, 13.5
Float Time, 18
Low Voltage Limit, 12.7
Field Threshold Bulk to Abs, 65
Field Threshold Float to Abs, 65
Alternator Temp Threshold, 110
Max Battery Temp, 44
Min Battery Temp, 0
Battery #1 temp. sensor open or not found, E11
Battery #2 temp. sensor open or not found, E13
Alternator #1 temp. sensor open or not found, E15
FUP, undefined
socsec, F7F-30-06E3
These are the specs for the Relion batteries - I have 2 RB100-LT's
DISCHARGE SPECIFICATIONS
Maximum Continuous Discharge Current 100 A
Peak Discharge Current 200 A (7.5 s ±2.5 s)
BMS Discharge Current Cut-Off 280 A ±50 A (32 ±10 ms)
Recommended Low Voltage Disconnect 11 V
BMS Discharge Voltage Cut-Off 9.2 V (2.3 ±0.08 vpc) (4.7 ±1 s)
Reconnect Voltage 10 V (2.5 ±0.1 vpc)
Short Circuit Protection 200-600 μs
CHARGE SPECIFICATIONS
Recommended Charge Current 5 A - 50 A
Maximum Charge Current 100 A
Recommended Charge Voltage 14.2 V - 14.6 V
BMS Charge Voltage Cut-Off 15.4 V (3.85 ±0.025 vpc) (1000 ±200 ms)
Reconnect Voltage 14.6 V (3.65 ±0.05 vpc)
Balancing Voltage 14.4 V (3.6 ±0.025 vpc)
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Ron and Kitchy with Scottie our tri-color Sheltie
2014 Fleetwood Bounder 35k, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited toad
2023 Thor Tellaro 20L 200Amp Reliable -no generator
I don't get it , you'r saying or another poster is saying that the Alternator will burn itself up with out the add on Temp sensor ? Sounds odd that a manufacturer would make something & Thor installed(?) that would burn itself out with out adding sensors .
How many are out there being used with out this add on sensor & are burning up , over heating ? I have a 280 Amp second Alternator & no idea who makes it & also no idea if there is a Regular in the Coach or if its an internal regulator , now I have to look into it , but its been working fine & charges my 400AH system when engine is running .
I may be wrong in terms of the regulator setup - UFP-CFP is the default custom programming done at the factory. I saw LiFePO in the list, and freaked out not seeing it selected.
I sent the params to Balmar to have them vet the setup. I just don't trust Thor, there are just too many mistakes and poor build quality in the entire unit, everything makes me nervous.
The other thing worth looking into is the max charge current. The battery manufacturer says that .75xTotalSystem is max charge current. So, .75 x 200 = 150amp charge current max in my case.
I'll be watching to be sure that charging stays as close to +150 as possible. That max number goes down as the device heats up. Thus the need for a temp sensor, or really good luck; given these are RV's...I'll go with the sensor.
Check your battery manufacture's charging specs. If all things are equal, your 280amp alternator into 400amp battery bank is pretty close to ideal .75 x 400=300.
My 170 is just a bit over kill for 200amp's of battery, probably not a worry...but it looks like a pita to change out and they are not cheap and neither are the batteries. Around $65 worth of insurance for the sensor is a deal.
Ron
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Ron and Kitchy with Scottie our tri-color Sheltie
2014 Fleetwood Bounder 35k, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited toad
2023 Thor Tellaro 20L 200Amp Reliable -no generator
I see what you are saying now , makes sense . I still wonder if I have a Regulator stashed away some where , I didn't see anything that looked like yours , but maybe I didn't find it yet .
Find the blue and white wires (smaller) and trace them back (from the alternator). That's how I found mine. The big red one will go back to the shunt, mine was all one place under the headrest passenger side.
Happy hunting
ron
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Ron and Kitchy with Scottie our tri-color Sheltie
2014 Fleetwood Bounder 35k, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited toad
2023 Thor Tellaro 20L 200Amp Reliable -no generator
Thanks , but the RV is at the shop getting things replaced from our original walk through back in Feb. , parts have been in for months , but appointment was Thursday . Have to wait till they install new front Panel on the Kitchen Island & a new ATS .
Great information Ron! I am going to order one of these because will be a much easier way to monitor the batteries as well as check the parameters of the setup. I am happy with the way mine is working with the Onan generator but would like to confirm it was set up correctly from the factory. I don't have much confidence in Thor and at least will know for sure.
Ron was there a data wire going from the regulator to the display? I plugged my Bluetooth in behind the display and when I Bluetooth I can only see the display the Bluetooth and the gateway. I can’t see the regulator?
Ron was there a data wire going from the regulator to the display? I plugged my Bluetooth in behind the display and when I Bluetooth I can only see the display the Bluetooth and the gateway. I can’t see the regulator?
Balmar helped me figure out my problem, Thor wired pins 10/11 backwards. 10 should be green and 11 is white.
The more I dig the more messed up Thor seems to be. They must not have any level of pride in their work?
Ron was there a data wire going from the regulator to the display? I plugged my Bluetooth in behind the display and when I Bluetooth I can only see the display the Bluetooth and the gateway. I can’t see the regulator?
Engine has to be running to see the Alternator display.
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Ron and Kitchy with Scottie our tri-color Sheltie
2014 Fleetwood Bounder 35k, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited toad
2023 Thor Tellaro 20L 200Amp Reliable -no generator
Balmar helped me figure out my problem, Thor wired pins 10/11 backwards. 10 should be green and 11 is white.
The more I dig the more messed up Thor seems to be. They must not have any level of pride in their work?
At least they hooked up the wires, I had stuff just hanging - never even hooked up (the ignition sense on regulator - regulator never even turned on until connected).
The entire RV industry quality is sub par, no attention to detail, no QA...why should they...and we buy them no matter what.
As long as profits are up, why invest in quality.
As for me, I love adventure just as much as fixing stuff, I guess; I haven't found anything I can't figure out or fix on this or my Class A...never had either of them to a dealer for a repair yet.
ron
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Ron and Kitchy with Scottie our tri-color Sheltie
2014 Fleetwood Bounder 35k, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited toad
2023 Thor Tellaro 20L 200Amp Reliable -no generator
I found my Regulator today , under the Passenger seat . I will upload some photos in the morning . It really wasn't hard to find , there are a couple blue things with blue cables (controllers ? ) with a white cable with what looks like you could plug it into a Computer or something . Maybe has something to do with the Sprinter Chassis , I have to look deeper in day light .
I recall the conversation with the Thor guy, he said the regulator could be under the seat (as you found), under the hood, or behind the microwave...Mine was under the passenger side bunk headrest.
Clever lilted devils, hiding stuff where nobody would ever look...they should get into geocaching
Where did they hide the shunt?
ron
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Ron and Kitchy with Scottie our tri-color Sheltie
2014 Fleetwood Bounder 35k, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited toad
2023 Thor Tellaro 20L 200Amp Reliable -no generator
I recall the conversation with the Thor guy, he said the regulator could be under the seat (as you found), under the hood, or behind the microwave...Mine was under the passenger side bunk headrest.
Clever lilted devils, hiding stuff where nobody would ever look...they should get into geocaching
Where did they hide the shunt?
ron
By shunt I assume you mean the large Red cable , it comes out the Passenger side Wheel Well & then tucks back in , is ran along the Frame back towards the LI Batteries .
I'm wondering what are the two blue components in the back with the PC plug or what ever it is , are .
I'm going to have to go back to your other Thread about this Temperature probe install , because there is another Wire connected to the Alternator & I cant read all what's on the tag , it does have Alternator written on it but there is another word , I cant make out yet , it rained all day yesterday , so I didn't get a change to go back & look , its attached to a bolt on the Alternator ( some kind of fuse ? )
By shunt I assume you mean the large Red cable , it comes out the Passenger side Wheel Well & then tucks back in , is ran along the Frame back towards the LI Batteries .
I'm wondering what are the two blue components in the back with the PC plug or what ever it is , are .
I'm going to have to go back to your other Thread about this Temperature probe install , because there is another Wire connected to the Alternator & I cant read all what's on the tag , it does have Alternator written on it but there is another word , I cant make out yet , it rained all day yesterday , so I didn't get a change to go back & look , its attached to a bolt on the Alternator ( some kind of fuse ? )
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.powerelectronictips.com/measuring-current-shunt-resistors/
A shunt is a low-value resistor used to measure current – it is therefore also referred to as a current-sense resistor. The shunt typically connects in series so it carries the current of interest. A voltage measurement device then connects in parallel with the shunt. The current through the shunt generates a voltage drop that is measured. The current value is derived from Ohm’s law and the known resistance (I = V/R). To keep power loss – and thus heat development – to a minimum, shunts must have resistive values no higher than the milliohm range. Some are even below that.
By shunt I assume you mean the large Red cable , it comes out the Passenger side Wheel Well & then tucks back in , is ran along the Frame back towards the LI Batteries .
I'm wondering what are the two blue components in the back with the PC plug or what ever it is , are .
I'm going to have to go back to your other Thread about this Temperature probe install , because there is another Wire connected to the Alternator & I cant read all what's on the tag , it does have Alternator written on it but there is another word , I cant make out yet , it rained all day yesterday , so I didn't get a change to go back & look , its attached to a bolt on the Alternator ( some kind of fuse ? )
Just for fun, I ran through some of my photos I took during my discovery process on our Tellaro on a Promaster chassis. I believe yours is a a Sprinter but if you have similar Balmar items this may help. I have no idea what your blue items are. Totally guesses, but are they related to your multiplex setup or perhaps wifi setup. Maybe grab a pic directly over the top to capture a clear view of the labels.
Just for fun, I ran through some of my photos I took during my discovery process on our Tellaro on a Promaster chassis. I believe yours is a a Sprinter but if you have similar Balmar items this may help. I have no idea what your blue items are. Totally guesses, but are they related to your multiplex setup or perhaps wifi setup. Maybe grab a pic directly over the top to capture a clear view of the labels.
By the way, the first photo is of the Balmar shunt.
I have not fount that Shunt , yet & now I know what to look for. Thanks for the Schematic , It appears I have something plugged into term. 1-9 , so does that mean I have a Temp. sensor already installed ?
The Blue components are part of the MasterVolt system , I got a good photo of them today .Some kind of contractor , I have to look them up .
The shunt could be anywhere, interrupting the negative cable between battery(s) and negative buss. At least that was how mine was, and buried behind the microwave.
If you haven't done so, go to the Thor web site, owner's area and download info for your specific model. The schematics are very helpful even though not necessarily 100% accurate for the specific build out. The schematics are easy compared to the actual mess of wires buried behind cabinets, walls, appliances, etc!
You have wires connected to terminals 5 and 6 on the regulator so you should have temp sensing. It connects to the alternator case as shown in the photo.
The blue Mastervolt things are Masterbus interfaces I believe. Your setup may be different than mine. I believe my Mastervolt data connection goes directly from the Inverter/Charger to the BMPro RVMaster node.
The bluetooth gateway simply plugs into the back of the Balmar wall display. Easy. Their website has all the info in pdf download for the gateway, display, alternator, and regulator.
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