Storing a generator

[JourneyingTurtle]

My 22 Tellaro has limited storage space inside and zero space outside. I find myself needing a generator to make up for the minuscule solar and battery capacity Thor puts in these things.

Does anyone have any brilliant ideas on how to carry a small generator and gas can inside the van in a way that I don't fumigate myself?

[Chateau_Nomad]

Bumper mounted storage box?

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Bumper mounted storage box?

[RonRM]

I've been through the same thoughts, really thought for quite some time I needed a generator. This isn't particularly advice, just a few thoughts.

I feel it really depended on how I travel. If I can get plugged in, then there is no use for a generator - even solar. I have had a Class A for 9years (still have it), we rarely boondock in the A, no solar, never had an issue with power...I do have a generator that can run the entire coach...rarely use it. In the words, we are almost always plugged in.

We bought the B to so we can do more impulsive stuff and travel quicker, so it needs to be a bit more self sufficient. But, then again, we do more overnights and less week to 2 seek stays. Given that, even if I need the batteries, they charge while driving.

Add a generator, nope- I have one, the UHG, just need to start the engine. I've read, I haven't measured yet, that at idle the engine will use around 2gal of gas overnight so that's not a constraint. UHG typically charges at 180amps, so 30-60mins in most cases for me is full charge.

Still want to understand how that could effect the engine. My guess is that once and awhile, no particular issues. Daily...dunno, I used to drive into Chicago, stayed at idle for anywhere between 30-90mins every day 2x a day for years...same car ran over 300k miles. If this is not the case, then there may be a generator in my future.

There are dozens of combinations and controversy in each combination (gen, batt, solar...etc), I'm going with the additional panel, second battery(ies) (200amp hour). That will probably do the trick for me.

First, I have to clean up the marginal design (components aren't terrible, just implemented/configured poorly) and more importantly clean up the snit show wiring disaster.

ron

[robertj1961]

Totally agree with Ron that the generator use is based on your needs and the way you travel. If away from a power source, it is certainly useful especially with only 200 a/h of battery supply. The solar on these is nothing more than a "trickle" charger. We also had the class A with a 10000 watt Onan and rarely used it because we were almost always plugged in to 50 amp. We use the van however in a totally different way and have only been in a campground once.

If you need the generator power I can not say enough "good" about the Onan QG 2800i. Thor mounted a few of these underneath the van behind the rear axels so I know it can be done. This is by far the most quiet generator I have ever heard and it will not disturb anyone. We use ours frequently to charge batteries or run A/C etc. Not sure what would be involved in the install process but it fits underneath the van behind the rear axel without any problem. Cost for one of these generators is probably in the $3k range and if you can have it installed where Thor did you don't have to worry about storage. The only obstacle I can see on installing is tapping into the van fuel supply. Not sure how they do that but it is possibly very simple. Fuel use on these is only about 1/2 gallon an hour from your Promaster fuel tank. Onan also makes a propane version of the same generator but personally would not want to deal with that. Maintenance of this model is simple and oil change only takes a quart of oil with no filter to worry about.

The other option for carrying an external generator would probably be on a rack that mounts to the trailer hitch. Gas could easily be carried there also. I have seen several of those on Amazon and their price is very reasonable.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Aside from all this theology, you've obviously decided the need for and to carry a small portable...EXCELLENT CHOICE!! A rear hitch rack with a cover or one of the covered hitch "storage boxes" as mentioned in Post #2 will work perfectly. You'll find you can carry a few other things along as well. If using the plastic 5 gallon jugs, drill a hole in the topmost portion of the handle with the smallest drill but you have. This will keep the jugs from expanding and sucking flat with temperature changes and will a small enough hole you won't lose gasoline integrity...as long as you cycle it through regularly.

[pmgia]

Buy more batteries but don’t pay for relions. I did Li-Time (2)400ah

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by JourneyingTurtle

My 22 Tellaro has limited storage space inside and zero space outside. I find myself needing a generator to make up for the minuscule solar and battery capacity Thor puts in these things.

Does anyone have any brilliant ideas on how to carry a small generator and gas can inside the van in a way that I don't fumigate myself?

Don't put the gas inside the van. If it get stolen so be it.

Get the hitch as suggested and some locks so it would be difficult to take the genny or gas. Make sure you buy quality genny that quiet and easy to start (with key) unless you already own a genny, you may ignore the last comment.

Google hitches for generators to get ideas.

[fourthgear]

Maybe one of those portable power stations , no gas , it's just another LI battery system that can be charged in several ways .

Or as has been said, a cargo carrier attached to the Hitch . I have one & use it to carry Gas for the lawn Tractor & other nasty items that I don't want to spill or smell .

[RonRM]

The Promaster forum supports the fact that a properly maintained modern engine can idle for long periods with out any issues. There was mention that the fan noise can be loud, so within normal generator times should be the same. I'm out in the middle of nowhere when I'd need it, so no issues.

As for the economy of running the engine vs. a generator...the 3500's engine will burn around .67gph (some guy actually had a way to measure it). So, call it 3/4gpm, idling for 4hrs a night, and gas $3/gal (that's what it is in WI lately)- $9 a night. The generator I would buy is around $800, so round it up for easy math - 100 nights for the price of the generator. And I would have more room in the $1200 swing out Stoaway hitch box, I'll eventually need one of these anyway.

It's not that I dont want one, got other uses for it if owned one, just don't seem to need it specifically for the way we camp in the B.

[JourneyingTurtle]

RonRM, that may be just the info I needed to read. The style of camping I want to do won't allow me to plug in to shore power and I really don't want to add anything to the outside of the van (personal preference). Now if only I could rely on the UHG and the Balmar system, in general, but that's a topic for another thread.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I am learning so much and hope to one day be able to contribute.

[RonRM]

BINGO...'if I could rely on the UHG'...that's the $100M question, up from $1M due to inflation.

I so so wish 2 things, that my Morton building garage door was 12ft, and/or I lived in a warmer place. While I wait for the warmer weather, I'm gathering tons of data and ideas on how to get the system delivered to be reliable, easy to understand and just over all better for my camping style. I think I can get it to as near to 100% understandable, thereby predictable, which should give me reliability since I'll know where the edges are.

It's not that any of the components are bad, it's the integration of 3 vendors stuff add to that a few less than optimal choices in the design (like what happens when it gets cold). None are showstoppers, just have to work through them.

I was pretty relieved when the folks on the Promaster Owner forum adjudicated running the engine at idle for long periods (I predict 2-6 hours on the worse days -hot). That's was one of my biggest concerns...poof gone now!

The UHG/Regulator will take care of itself. As long as it has the temp sensor on the UHG in working order (mine came disconnected), and the regulator params are correct (verified by hooking up the BT adapter and using the app), that part of the system is pretty solid. The display is flakey as all get-out. The 'learning' it needs every time it looses power is annoying. I know why it's like that, I just think it could be done better.

The MasterVolt inverter/charger - by itself, not integrated with MV batteries and other MV components - is basically brain dead. It just spits out charge and looks for voltage levels. It can't get SOC from the batteries...Relion doesn't talk on the MV CanBus as their batteries can.

The Relion batteries, ho-hum nothing particularly special lithium batteries with hi/low temp sense/compensation(heaters). The BMS doesn't even have BlueTooth to monitor it.

So, nothing particularly wrong, just could be better. Could have a few more monitoring/checks/triggers/memory to prevent or support operation.

In my perfect world that exists only in my head, I would have gone with a vendor that integrates all the components end-to-end. I probably would have gone with Victron, Lithionics or even MV...a bit expensive, but solid.

Just to simplify this, basically we have a system that monitors battery voltages, not actual SOC. Lithium batteries have such a flat voltage curve, it makes it hard to determine SOC from voltage. You kinda know the min and the max, the in-between is predicted.

That works fine, not optimal but works fine if everything is in good working order. The battery BMS itself is the only reliable device to measure/retain the actual SOC...basically it is the only device that can count the number of electrons (that =current or amps) that went in or out and remember the numbers, ie. SOC. Unfortunately, the Relions don't communicate, so the system needs a way to do that outside the Relion ecosystem. The Balmar display come close, but again flakey as all get-out.

Bottom line, this stuff is OK, you can rely on the technology stuff...just need to understand it, and make sure Thor people did a good job manufacturing it...this is not to be relied on - check it all. Not something you get in the 'walk-thru' at the dealership.

I'll document my solution (or at least the stupid ideas I come up with) in this post https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f4...etc-33115.html

Ron

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JourneyingTurtle

...cut....

Does anyone have any brilliant ideas on how to carry a small generator and gas can inside the van in a way that I don't fumigate myself?

Originally Posted by JourneyingTurtle

....cut.... The style of camping I want to do won't allow me to plug in to shore power and I really don't want to add anything to the outside of the van (personal preference). .....cut.....

No, and I would not want a generator or gas can inside van no matter how well it was sealed off. Lately a few manufacturers have started placing propane tanks inside van by fabricating a storage compartment inside van that is sealed off and also vented to outside. I suppose an interior generator compartment that was sealed from van and vented to outside could be made to work, but I’m not the one to test the theory. One manufacturer placed a Honda 2000 under rear dinette if I recall correctly, but box was bolted down, sealed, and vented.

I sympathize with not wanting stuff attached outside van, though I haul my portable generator inside a large plastic container attached to a hitch-mounted carrier when trip makes it necessary to have it. Otherwise I leave generator at home. It’s a pain because it blocks opening rear left door, and I haven’t taken time to build a swing away for generator box because we need to replace van due to age and mileage.

I also don’t like hauling the hitch carrier because it extends van length to well over 20 feet, making it harder to maneuver in tight places or park in standard parking spots.

If it were my van, I would first estimate how much extra battery, solar, and/or Under Hood Generator charging capacity I needed to avoid adding an Onan, and then compare costs. I hope my next van can meet practically all my needs without a generator. For the occasional oddball trip requiring one, I would reluctantly haul my portable generator and gas in a hitch-mounted swing-away box.

[Cbudurka]

We bought a cool swing arm that connects to the hitch with storage- it’s perfect!!