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Old 12-09-2022, 05:19 PM   #1
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Question Tellaro 20L 2022: Electric lithium autonomy of less than a day with only a fridge!

Our Thor Tellaro 20L 2022, acquired on April 6, 2022, with the lithium system does not have a suitable autonomy in our opinion and we would like to have your comments and experiences.

We've done over 10,000 miles this summer with our 2022 Tellaro.

Every night after a day on the road and 100% charge (SOC on Balmar monitor), the next morning the charge was in the range of 10% to 30% with only a fridge running overnight (not air conditioning, no microwave...).

All the times (without exception) when we were in a location without service for more than one night, we always had to start the engine the next day or drive to recharge the lithium system and thus raise the % SOC.
We have never trusted the solar panel enough to adequately recharge the batteries due to trees, clouds...

For us, Boondocking for more than a day is therefore unthinkable in terms of electric autonomy!

- What is your experience of electric charge automomy with the lithium Thor (Tellaro, Sequence…)?

- Also, still according to your experience, is it normal that the SOH (State of Health) has dropped to 90% in such a few months?


THANK YOU!

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Old 12-09-2022, 05:56 PM   #2
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What is the amp hour capacity of your lithium system?

When the lithium batteries drop to 10-30% SOC overnight has the fridge been on long enough before this to stabilize inside temps? In other words, does this happen day after day?

Is this an inverter powered AC fridge or is it directly DC powered. How many cu ft?

David
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Old 12-09-2022, 07:11 PM   #3
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I have a 2022 with AGM/generator. I never have to run it to charge the AGM. I did put an extra solar panel on the roof. In the morning after coffee, hot shower, etc. the AGM is 12.2ish and by noon solar has them back to a full charge.

The fridge is DC powered, are you leaving your inverter on all night ?
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Old 12-09-2022, 10:46 PM   #4
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The 2022 Thor Tellaro that we bought new is our first RV... Here are our answers to DavidEM and MDMOORE according to the manufacturer's specifications.

DavidEM: What is the amp hour capacity of your lithium system?

For our model (2022), Thor replaced the Onan 2.8KW generator and AGM batteries, with an underhood generator (2nd 170-Amp output alternator) added to engine with lithium batteries.
• Generator under the hood to charge the batteries, with more than 70 amps available even at engine idle
• CombiMaster 3000W inverter with 160 amp inverter/charger
• ReLion RB100-LT 12.8V 100Ah batteries
I have attached 2 files: the RB100-LT battery data sheet and the CombiMaster specifications.
Wishing this information will help answer your question about lithium system capacity.


DavidEM: When the lithium batteries drop to 10-30% SOC overnight has the fridge been on long enough before this to stabilize inside temps? In other words, does this happen day after day?

Basically, we made 3 big trips totaling 4 months on the road. Between each trip, the RV was plugged in at home precisely for the refrigerator either all the time or several days before leaving.
As mentioned in my first post, systematically, every night spent without service (which must have happened at least forty times) the SOC dropped to 10-30% overnight so YES this happen day after day.

DavidEM: Is this an inverter powered AC fridge or is it directly DC powered. How many cu ft?

We have a NOVA KOOL single door 12V stainless electric refrigerator 4.3 CU. that can run both AC & DC in the specification of Nova Kool.
I don't know what is the electrical installation of the fridge in the Tellaro. I have attached a Nova Kool PDF for more information.

MDMOORE:The fridge is DC powered, are you leaving your inverter on all night?

I believe that the inverter is functional all night, because I would not know how to turn it off...
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	RELI3ON-DATA-SHEET-RB100-LT.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	115.7 KB
ID:	40325   Click image for larger version

Name:	CombiMaster12-3000-160-120V-Inverter-Charger.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	83.6 KB
ID:	40326  

Attached Files
File Type: pdf Nova-Kool-fridge-installation.pdf (1.56 MB, 69 views)
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Old 12-09-2022, 11:17 PM   #5
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We have a similar setup as yours with the same battery and inverter setup with the 190 watt solar panels. Only difference is ours has the Onan 2800 watt generator but batteries are identical.

I would recommend turning your inverter "off" unless needed for A/C power as that will use needed amps when not connected to shore power. The refrigerator is going to pull about 5 a/h or so which is about what your solar panels will add in decent sun. At night the solar is contributing nothing of course so that is why your batteries are going down overnight depending on how much power you are consuming when not plugged in. The solar panels are "at best" good for powering the refrigerator and "trickle charging" the batteries.
Thor or sales people may have misrepresented the ability of 200 a/h batteries but realistically your experience is not that surprising. I can run my air conditioner only a little over an hour or so before batteries need charging unless the generator is running or connected to shore power.
It is not going to damage anything by letting the batteries drop down to 30% or so.
The setup you purchased is the smallest battery package Thor offers in the Tellaro. Their upgraded systems are equipped with either 400a/h or 800 a/h batteries.
An option to having more "off grid" time without recharging would be to add bigger batteries, more solar power or a generator but believe keeping your inverter off will help somewhat.
Our SOH is showing 96% but would not be too alarmed at it showing 90%. We have owned our also about 6 months or so. If it continues to drop rapidly might be something to worry about but wouldn't be surprised if it also ticked up a point or two over time.
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Old 12-09-2022, 11:34 PM   #6
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Very interesting avenues, robertj1961, that will need to be investigated!
Thanks for your reply.
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Old 12-10-2022, 12:20 AM   #7
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Ok, I understand that you have 200 Ah of Li batteries powering a 4.3 cu ft DC/AC fridge.

That fridge will probably run at a 50% duty cycle overnight, drawing about 5 amps when on or maybe 2-3 amps at a higher duty cycle since it looks like it manages compressor rpm to accomplish that. So over a 12 hour period it will draw as much as 0.5*12*5 or 30 amp hours. That is not enough to draw down your lithium batteries from 100% to 10-30% overnight. So something else is going on.

I would invest in a DC clamp on ammeter, or you can use your Balmar battery monitor, and then measure the current being drawn from the batteries with the fridge off. You may be surprised at how much current is being drawn. Then one by one, pull each fuse on the power distribution panel (the "converter") and see if one doesn't drop significantly. That one is your problem.

If you can't switch off your inverter (and I am surprised you can't) then disconnect the DC lead to it. You don't need it to power your fridge unless it is set to AC only or the DC powered capability isn't working.

David
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Old 12-10-2022, 12:31 AM   #8
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Turn the inverter off when you don't need 110 and run off DC as much as possible.
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Old 12-10-2022, 12:54 AM   #9
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Thank you David and Mdmoore for your suggestions which I will check and implement... next April... The RV is currently inaccessible, wintered inside a warehouse.
As for the famous yellow switch to turn off the inverter, I've never seen it , but don't worry, I'm going to look into it very closely next spring.
At worst, I will go to a specialist to have one installed...
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Old 12-10-2022, 01:55 PM   #10
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There is no "yellow switch" installed on the 200ah setup. It does need it as we have found but Thor decided not to install for some reason.

You can turn the inverter "off" however from the Mastervolt Combi panel. Turn it off by using the far left button on the Mastervolt display. It is a little "tricky" however and sometimes you have to press it a couple of times and the display should show "inverting" if the inverter is on. You can also turn the inverter off at the Inverter itself, but the switch is a little hard to access on mine so I generally just leave that switch "on" With that switch in the off positon, the charger still functions but the inverter does not. You can not turn the battery charger off however which is one of my complaints as lithium batteries do not need or like constant charging. The only way to keep the batteries from charging is not have any power source (generator or shore power). Solar will always charge the batteries also but not enough power to be concerned about.

As David suggested, you are probably pulling more DC amps than you realize when using (and not using). The Wineguard Thor installed on these is pulling power at all times with no way to turn it off when you are not using. The Tellaro has more lights than I have ever seen on a vehicle this size and lights up like a "Xmas tree". Inverter is also pulling power also inless turned off. The BM Pro that controls literally everything on the van is also pulling constant power weather you want it to or not. Turning off the "battery disconnect" switch still does not totally disconnect everything as we have found out ( inverter still has power with it off).

I would recommend connecting a battery tender to the chassis battery (or driving it about once a month ) if in storage as your chassis batteries on Promasters have been known to go dead after extended periods of storage due to parasitic draw. Good luck and hope that helps.
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Old 12-10-2022, 04:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cad157 View Post
Our Thor Tellaro 20L 2022, acquired on April 6, 2022, with the lithium system does not have a suitable autonomy in our opinion and we would like to have your comments and experiences.

We've done over 10,000 miles this summer with our 2022 Tellaro.

Every night after a day on the road and 100% charge (SOC on Balmar monitor), the next morning the charge was in the range of 10% to 30% with only a fridge running overnight (not air conditioning, no microwave...).

All the times (without exception) when we were in a location without service for more than one night, we always had to start the engine the next day or drive to recharge the lithium system and thus raise the % SOC.
We have never trusted the solar panel enough to adequately recharge the batteries due to trees, clouds...

For us, Boondocking for more than a day is therefore unthinkable in terms of electric autonomy!

- What is your experience of electric charge automomy with the lithium Thor (Tellaro, Sequence…)?

- Also, still according to your experience, is it normal that the SOH (State of Health) has dropped to 90% in such a few months?


THANK YOU!
You're powering more than the fridge off the batteries. From the instant you turn off the engine everything in the RV is being powered by the batteries (neglecting any solar charging). That includes any control power, lighting, the electronic "control everything" electronics, etc. None of those are large loads but they do add up quickly on a 200 AH system.
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Old 12-10-2022, 06:45 PM   #12
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Big THANKS Robert
Very relevant !
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Old 12-10-2022, 06:47 PM   #13
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Thank you also 16ACE27
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Old 12-11-2022, 04:19 PM   #14
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We have the same system exactly....and agree they should not be discharging like that. Is the heater running in the background? Anything else?

We regularly have the heater and fridge running and we are at 40% the next morning when we can idle the engine.
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Old 12-12-2022, 12:48 AM   #15
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To answer your question dg0603, the heating was rarely turned on during the night. Interesting to know that with the heater and the fridge, we can expect a 40% SOC in the morning! Thanks for your sharing.

We have an appointment in April 2023 with a lithium system expert to make a diagnosis and see what is energy-consuming... All the experiences with the Tellaro lithium system and the leads received on this forum are very much appreciated and useful!
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Old 12-14-2022, 07:26 PM   #16
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Fridge has high power draw. It is actually electric heater. You don't have Propane option?
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Old 12-14-2022, 08:13 PM   #17
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Fridge has high power draw. It is actually electric heater. You don't have Propane option?
Did you read the thread? Post #4? OP has a compressor style fridge, no "electric heater", no high power draw.
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Old 12-14-2022, 09:17 PM   #18
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I recently watch a YT video where a man ran a 20 year old residential fridge, some off brand 1500 watt inverter and 1 12v 100 Ah lithium battery for almost exactly 11 hours. Look up Off Grid Basement if you're wondering.
I would think you could do a lot better than he did with an RV fridge and twice the batteries.

I'm not sure this helps you but it does give you some idea from someone who actually ran a similar test.
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Old 12-14-2022, 10:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cad157 View Post
Our Thor Tellaro 20L 2022, acquired on April 6, 2022, with the lithium system does not have a suitable autonomy in our opinion and we would like to have your comments and experiences.

We've done over 10,000 miles this summer with our 2022 Tellaro.

Every night after a day on the road and 100% charge (SOC on Balmar monitor), the next morning the charge was in the range of 10% to 30% with only a fridge running overnight (not air conditioning, no microwave...).

All the times (without exception) when we were in a location without service for more than one night, we always had to start the engine the next day or drive to recharge the lithium system and thus raise the % SOC.
We have never trusted the solar panel enough to adequately recharge the batteries due to trees, clouds..

For us, Boondocking for more than a day is therefore unthinkable in terms of electric autonomy!

- What is your experience of electric charge automomy with the lithium Thor (Tellaro, Sequence…)?

- Also, still according to your experience, is it normal that the SOH (State of Health) has dropped to 90% in such a few months?


THANK YOU!
I have a 2023 20L - 200AH Relion/no generator. Probably same fridge...etc. i have never seen a drop of 90% with just the fridge running overnight...not even when it was cold.

First thing, did you check the setup for the Balmar display (I'm assuming you are reading SOC/SOH from the round display). This thing reports on stuff based on it's setup params...and could be way off if not setup correctly. Watch the YouTube videos on how to set it up. The model number is SG200 Balmar Display. That will at least confirm you are seeing what is actually happening.

Second thing, if you are handy (don't do this if you are not comfortable around high current electricity), get a volt meter and measure the voltage on the batteries. Easier said than done (might have to learn some unique yoga poses). The best place I know to do this is at the inverter (with the inverter turned off), there are two large cables (one positive and the other negative that run back to the batteries). Typically the voltage is not the indicator of SOC, but at 10% on the display...the voltage will probably be below 13volts. The BMS in the batteries will cut the batteries off somewhere between 11-12volts I believe...if you measure above 13.3 or so...there is better chance the display isn't telling you the truth. Again, voltage doesn't tell you exactly what SOC is, but it is somewhat related.

Last...I know someone asked, but again...did you have the inverter on, and had a pile of stuff plugged into 110vac, stuff like that will pull power from the batteries? The way to tell, is to switch the display to Amps...how many does it say you are using right before you go to bed. Simple math...Amps * Hours --- If that product is between roughly 150-180 (given you have a 200AH battery bank), that's you're issue, you now need to find the devices that are pulling that kind of load and live with it, or unplug some of them.

BUT, keep in mind, if the setup on the display is wrong...what it is telling you is also wrong...best to check the display setup first.

ron
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Old 12-14-2022, 11:06 PM   #20
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jannadem, 16ACE27, howzball and ron, thank you again for all this relevant information and verifications that we will do next spring when the RV comes out of its winterization!

And yes, too bad that the fridge can't also run on propane... propane, for the Thor Tellaro 2022, is only used for the stove, hot water, heating and it works very well!!
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