15 degrees burrrrr

[RodIndy]

Hello, I have a relatively new to me 2015 Thor Vegas 24.1.. On my way south this weekend I will be overnight where temps in the teens will last for 8 hours or so..
Given all the water pipes and water tank/pump are inside the MH and I will be heating it, I don’t see this as a problem. Gray and black tanks don’t concern me much either.
Anyone disagree? Am I missing anything? Thanks..

[Bob Denman]

Good luck, and remember to keep your Brass Monkeys indoors!

[sportcoupe]

Place a hand warmer in the outside shower box.

[RodIndy]

Originally Posted by sportcoupe

Place a hand warmer in the outside shower box.

Good idea and easy to do..thanks

[DavidEM]

I have an Axis 24.1 and in addition to the shower box, the grey and black water discharge pipes could freeze in 15 degrees. Also when you leave in the morning, the temps will probably be well below freezing. Driving at 60-65 creates a tremendous wind chill that will dramatically increase freezing in those pipes.

So, if you can drain the two tanks before leaving do so. If not maybe a couple of handwarmers wrapped with insulation will keep them from freezing. At the very least run a few gallons of hot water down the grey water tank and dump a gallon or so of hot water down the toilet. That will leave hot water in both, which should slow freezing.

Also when you leave in the morning of that freeze, prop up the plywood cover over the fresh water tank, pump and plumbing to let room air keep it from freezing inside, particularly with air in the teens rushing below at 60 mph.

Do you have the 12V heating pads on the tanks? They draw a lot of power so I wouldn't suggest turning them on if you are dry camping. But if at a FHU site, turn them on.

David

[RodIndy]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I have an Axis 24.1 and in addition to the shower box, the grey and black water discharge pipes could freeze in 15 degrees. Also when you leave in the morning, the temps will probably be well below freezing. Driving at 60-65 creates a tremendous wind chill that will dramatically increase freezing in those pipes.

So, if you can drain the two tanks before leaving do so. If not maybe a couple of handwarmers wrapped with insulation will keep them from freezing. At the very least run a few gallons of hot water down the grey water tank and dump a gallon or so of hot water down the toilet. That will leave hot water in both, which should slow freezing.

Also when you leave in the morning of that freeze, prop up the plywood cover over the fresh water tank, pump and plumbing to let room air keep it from freezing inside, particularly with air in the teens rushing below at 60 mph.

Do you have the 12V heating pads on the tanks? They draw a lot of power so I wouldn't suggest turning them on if you are dry camping. But if at a FHU site, turn them on.

David

Thanks David

[sportcoupe]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

... Also when you leave in the morning, the temps will probably be well below freezing. Driving at 60-65 creates a tremendous wind chill that will dramatically increase freezing in those pipes.

Wind chill isn't felt by inanimate objects, it only applies to people and animals. Objects will not cool beyond ambient temperatures.

[DavidEM]

Originally Posted by sportcoupe

Wind chill isn't felt by inanimate objects, it only applies to people and animals. Objects will not cool beyond ambient temperatures.

Agreed, but they will cool many times faster at 60 mph than at rest. That is the problem.

David

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by RodIndy

Hello, I have a relatively new to me 2015 Thor Vegas 24.1.. On my way south this weekend I will be overnight where temps in the teens will last for 8 hours or so..
Given all the water pipes and water tank/pump are inside the MH and I will be heating it, I don’t see this as a problem. Gray and black tanks don’t concern me much either.
Anyone disagree? Am I missing anything? Thanks..

I think winterizing would be the best but blowing the lines out might work. I wouldn't have anything in the black or gray tank it can freeze because the moving air around the tank will freeze the water quicker, Hot water freezes faster than cold, known as the Mpemba effect. ... The Mpemba effect occurs when two bodies of water with different temperatures are exposed to the same low temperatures surroundings and the hotter water freezes first. If I was going to use the tanks I would use Regular automotive green antifreeze from what I read regular antifreeze is better on seals than the pink stuff and it doesn't freeze like the pink stuff in the +20 degree area and adding water to the pink stuff defeats the purpose of no expansion water expands when it freezes

[Miramar Owner]

Using your furnace should keep the pipes from freezing and pour some rv antifreeze on your black and gray tanks for the valves.

Windchill only applies to bare skin... It can force cold air into places that it normally wouldn't get to but just run your furnace. At least that works in my Miramar.

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Agreed, but they will cool many times faster at 60 mph than at rest. That is the problem.

David

I am a retired Heat and Frost Insulator, (I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night) so I know a thing or two about keeping piping and tanks from freezing. The ambient air temperature is all a piece of piping, or a tank is exposed too. 20* is 20* to a pvc pipe regardless of whether the wind blows or not.

[DavidEM]

Originally Posted by MJC62

I am a retired Heat and Frost Insulator, (I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night) so I know a thing or two about keeping piping and tanks from freezing. The ambient air temperature is all a piece of piping, or a tank is exposed too. 20* is 20* to a pvc pipe regardless of whether the wind blows or not.

And I am a retired engineer.

You and others don’t seem to get that wind blowing over something will cool it down much faster than no wind.

Your skin feels colder in a wind because the wind causes heat to be removed faster than with no wind.

David

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

And I am a retired engineer.

You and others don’t seem to get that wind blowing over something will cool it down much faster than no wind.

Your skin feels colder in a wind because the wind causes heat to be removed faster than with no wind.

David

You win an engineer: bow: trumps the guys that were trained to keep things hot or cold...
I understand air movement cools things quicker (that's why you blow on a hot cup of coffee.) I am merely trying to point out there is no WIND CHILL on an inanimate object. 20* in a 60 mph wind is still only 20* to a piece of piping

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

And I am a retired engineer.

You and others don’t seem to get that wind blowing over something will cool it down much faster than no wind.

Your skin feels colder in a wind because the wind causes heat to be removed faster than with no wind.

David

Wind does cool it quicker (convection) but it doesn't get any colder.

Same principal that wind chill is based on - it "feels" colder due to wind, it is NOT colder.

It can be 36 degrees outside with a windchill of 25 degrees, the water will not freeze and it will go no lower than 36 degrees.

[Hooligan2]

Wind chill is 30 deg for a 40deg air and 20kt wind--
Wind will remove or add heat faster. A 32 deg ice cube with 40 deg air at 20mph will melt faster. Wind chill effect is felt because we are at 98.6 deg and have a lot more heat to give up. Same 40deg and 20knot wind will chill your body temp as fast as a 30 deg/calm wind.

[RodIndy]

Maybe you guys can open a separate thread to continue your pissing contest regarding wind chill.

[mcr1010]

If anyone worded at Farmers Ins. they would "know a thing or two."

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by mcr1010

If anyone worded at Farmers Ins. they would "know a thing or two."

"worded"

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by RodIndy

Hello, I have a relatively new to me 2015 Thor Vegas 24.1.. On my way south this weekend I will be overnight where temps in the teens will last for 8 hours or so..
Given all the water pipes and water tank/pump are inside the MH and I will be heating it, I don’t see this as a problem. Gray and black tanks don’t concern me much either.
Anyone disagree? Am I missing anything? Thanks..

Where is South? South Indianapolis or Miami, Florida? You have to allow for unpredictability of the weather based where you are going, i.e. it may last longer than 8 hours or it may not hot the teens at all.

I have been in the teens but we were in the RV, furnace were run running, water being used etc. By 11:00 am the next morning it was above freezing. That temp drop came as a surprise to us as we were camping and draining the tanks was not an option.

But in your case, based on assumptions of where you are really going, I would drain and winterized in full until the threat of temps in the teens has passed.

In fact, I will winterize again for the 2nd time this winter because temps are expected to hit 22* in Dallas Saturday night. Takes me 45 min to do so I will likely winterize on Friday or early Sat morning. It was 80* a few days ago

What ever you do, I hope you report back with what you decided and the results of what actually happened.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

I think winterizing would be the best but blowing the lines out might work. I wouldn't have anything in the black or gray tank it can freeze because the moving air around the tank will freeze the water quicker, Hot water freezes faster than cold, known as the Mpemba effect. ... The Mpemba effect occurs when two bodies of water with different temperatures are exposed to the same low temperatures surroundings and the hotter water freezes first. If I was going to use the tanks I would use Regular automotive green antifreeze from what I read regular antifreeze is better on seals than the pink stuff and it doesn't freeze like the pink stuff in the +20 degree area and adding water to the pink stuff defeats the purpose of no expansion water expands when it freezes

You started off good You lost me with all of the antifreeze stuff.

I am with your primary point though. Temps are expected to be in teens, winterize BEFORE you leave. Drain everything and simply blow it out. Make the trip, and add water after the freeze.