Charging issue...What's this wire???

[Bandit1]

Hi to all!

We just picked a new to us 2016 Class A Thor Outlaw 38RE. We drove it home from Ohio to Massachusetts and I felt the Coach Batteries weren't charging. Shore power charges, Generator charges but no charge when running. I confirmed all this with a meter and also the inverter is telling the same info.

Ok, here's where is get interesting.....I found a White wire and a Blue/black wire in a small conduit hanging near the front jack. I asked the PO what is was and he had no idea. We did notice the ends of both wires had a barrel connector and they were not crimped so i just ran it to the battery compartment so it wasnt't hanging. Fast forward to today when i was metering the house batteries and no output from the chassis when running. I figured I'd try those rogue wires and there was 14.1v(ish). So I turned the engine off and 12.3v from that wire!! Gotta be the culprit!!!???

So now the question is where does this go?? It does reach to the battery compartment so I have to think it should go to something there. its only a 16gauge wire....

I do know the Batteries in the house and Chassis were replaced in 2021. I just dont see an obvious place it would go.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Mike

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Bandit1

Hi to all!

We just picked a new to us 2016 Class A Thor Outlaw 38RE. We drove it home from Ohio to Massachusetts and I felt the Coach Batteries weren't charging. Shore power charges, Generator charges but no charge when running. I confirmed all this with a meter and also the inverter is telling the same info.

Ok, here's where is get interesting.....I found a White wire and a Blue/black wire in a small conduit hanging near the front jack. I asked the PO what is was and he had no idea. We did notice the ends of both wires had a barrel connector and they were not crimped so i just ran it to the battery compartment so it wasnt't hanging. Fast forward to today when i was metering the house batteries and no output from the chassis when running. I figured I'd try those rogue wires and there was 14.1v(ish). So I turned the engine off and 12.3v from that wire!! Gotta be the culprit!!!???

So now the question is where does this go?? It does reach to the battery compartment so I have to think it should go to something there. its only a 16gauge wire....

I do know the Batteries in the house and Chassis were replaced in 2021. I just dont see an obvious place it would go.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Mike

2016? Probably has a BIRD and those hanging wires are sense and/or control wires.

BIRD = Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay and it controls an isolating solenoid (made by Trombetta) that connects/disconnects the chassis and house battery banks for charging and isolation. All of this should be in your house battery bay.

This link is to the BIRD manual which contains an installation schematic:

https://intellitec.com/wp-content/up...-00362-000.pdf

[Bandit1]

Thanks for the reply! I was just reading up on the BIRD. I wonder if its all together missing??? I have a couple solenoids, breakers(not tripped) large and small and i dont see a BIRD?? I go out and look again but i definitely agree that seems logical

[16ACE27]

Trace the positive cables from the house batteries. "Generally" one will go to the inverter through either a large DC breaker or fuse/fusible link, one to the house buss through a 50 amp DC breaker, one to the leveler motor and generator start circuit through a 100 amp DC breaker, and one to the Trombetta solenoid (if BIRD equipped), or a BIM, or a BCC.

BIM is Battery Isolation Manager - normally on later models


BCC is Battery Control Center - normally on earlier models
https://rvcustomproducts.com/

[Bandit1]

Ok, just looked everywhere and no BIRD. There is a Solenoid on the upper right side with a 15amp fuse. Right side measure 14.3v with motor running. Left side 12,5v, with motor off and house plugged in left side 14.3v and right 12.5v.
Not sure what that solenoid does but there’s clearly chassis charging amps coming to it and house charging. But nothing passing??

Hopefully pics will come through but the 1st is the whole bay, 2nd is the solenoid in question and 3rd is those 2 wires that seem to definitely come from charging side.

BTW, THANK YOU for your time and help!!

[Bandit1]

Not sure why the pics are sideways…??

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Bandit1

Not sure why the pics are sideways…??

Just computers thinking they know how to do things better than people.
AKA EXIF embedded data in the pictures describing picture orientation.

Regardless;

The solenoid is the chassis/house battery banks connector/isolator, obviously not being told to connect or has gone bad.

Where do the smaller wires in the plastic conduit by it go? Should be a BIRD.

[Bandit1]

Those go into a much bigger conduit....I dont see a BIRD anywhere. I actually dont think my Emergency start switch is working either. I wonder if that Solenoid controls both?

[MLP]

Go to the actual Thor web page, register, and log in. Download all your coach files. In them you should have the wiring diagrams, plumbing, and almost everything else. You won't be guessing about the equipment on your rig. The wiring diagrams have the approximate locations of where the wire terminations are, color of the wires, and the color of the stripes. It is not perfect, but it helps.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Bandit1

Those go into a much bigger conduit....I dont see a BIRD anywhere. I actually dont think my Emergency start switch is working either. I wonder if that Solenoid controls both?

The EMERGENCY START button controls that solenoid (as well as the BIRD).

It's called the AUX START Switch on the BIRD diagram in the manual.

[Bandit1]

I went through that site but couldn't find anything specific. Really good info on operational things but nothing with wiring schematics.

I'll pick up a Solenoid tomorrow. Is it just a 12v Starter Solenoid? I did read it has to be continuous. Not sure on the total Amp Rating...

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Bandit1

I went through that site but couldn't find anything specific. Really good info on operational things but nothing with wiring schematics.

I'll pick up a Solenoid tomorrow. Is it just a 12v Starter Solenoid? I did read it has to be continuous. Not sure on the total Amp Rating...

Yes, continuous, at least 200 - 300 amp rating. Not sure where you would find it locally, Amazon has a selection of compatible solenoids but have you tested that one to see if it's bad? Apply 12 VDC control power across the small terminals and see if it connects the large terminals.

[Bandit1]

Ok I'll try that tomorrow. Is there a fuse for the emergency Start?

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Bandit1

Ok I'll try that tomorrow. Is there a fuse for the emergency Start?

AFAIK just the fuse you found near the solenoid.

[Bandit1]

Ok Thanks

[Bob Nodine]

Originally Posted by Bandit1

Ok I'll try that tomorrow. Is there a fuse for the emergency Start?

The wires with the uncrimped butt connectors are most likely for an option that is not installed. It is less expensive to manufacture a single wiring harness and just leave the uninstalled option wiring unterminated.

An easy test of the solenoid is to have someone apply the emergency start switch while you listen to the solenoid. If you hear it clunk then you know it is the solenoid for the BIRD or IRD. Not all motorhomes have a BIRD (Bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay) and have an IRD (Isolator Relay Delay) instead. With the IRD they only charge the house batteries from the engine but do not charge the chassis battery from shore power/generator. Since you are looking to charge the house batteries from the alternator this is mute point.

If you have in fact located the correct solenoid then have someone start the engine and hold down the Emergency Start switch while you use a voltmeter to test the two large terminals on the solenoid. If the solenoid is good you will have the alternator voltage (about 14 volts) on both terminals and if you go to the house battery you should measure about 14 volts there. You need to have the shore power unplugged for this test. When the Emergency Start switch is released you will only have the 14 volts on one of the solenoid terminals. The purpose of the BIRD (IRD) is to delay connecting the battery banks together until the chassis battery is charged. Often the BIRD (IRD) will fail and never connect the two banks together, i.e., close the solenoid.

[Bandit1]

I ordered the Trombetta off Amazon and will be here Thursday. I’ll swap it out and definitely update this post with the result. Thanks so much for all the advice here!

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Bandit1

Not sure why the pics are sideways…??

Try getting into the habit of holding your phone landscape and taking pics in that orientation. If you take pics in portrait, they likely will appear rotated 180 degrees. In other words, the aspect ratio is screwed up... like having your TV mounted with the longest dimension vertical.

[happy]

Question: Let me tag along here:
If shore power charges both chassis and engine battery, does that mean the charging system is working as it is supposed to?



Also on my Mac Computer I found that I have to manually rotate the picture in my photo viewer, then save it. After that when I use it here, it comes out correct on this forum.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by happy

Question: Let me tag along here:
If shore power charges both chassis and engine battery, does that mean the charging system is working as it is supposed to?



Also on my Mac Computer I found that I have to manually rotate the picture in my photo viewer, then save it. After that when I use it here, it comes out correct on this forum.

"chassis and engine battery" is one and the same. You probably mean house and chassis batteries. If SP is charging both the house and chassis batteries then it means the battery bank combiner/isolator has the battery banks combined. You would need more points of data to know if it is operating properly.