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Old 10-31-2020, 05:38 PM   #41
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That's simple: it no longer fit my needs.
I was no longer carrying my Spyder in the garage; so we traded to get more usable space for us.
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Old 10-31-2020, 06:24 PM   #42
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In our situation, diff between e-350 and e-450 is substantial. OCC was 1300 on e-350 based vegas 24.1. On the e-450 is 3299. Almost 2000 lbs.

GCVW is also different, e-350 at 18,500 and e-450 at 22,000.

Fully loaded for multi-day event we can push 19,000 lbs with parts, tools, trailer and extra water.

Likely would be modest overload of e-350 but why push it?

Not everyone does what we do, so pick a goal and select based on need. The vegas has a far roomier cab area than buddies C.
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Old 10-31-2020, 08:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
A 30-foot Class B+ or C canít be built on a Transit or Sprinter, but Transit and Sprinter motorhome sizes could be built on E-Series. Manufacturers choose not to. Thatís what I find strange.

As an example only, Compass- and Gemini-size B+ motorhomes were once built on E-Series, but have switched to Transit. I suppose availability of Diesel engine made a case for Transit initially so they could get 15~18 MPG, but now that they are gasoline, fuel economy canít be that different if motorhome is similar in size. No doubt Transit is newer and more modern, but is it that much better that it has replaced E-Series when GVWR permits it?

So, why have manufacturers essentially replaced all smaller E-Series motorhomes with Transit and Sprinter? Currently, the smallest B+ I could find built on E-Series is too large for a Sprinter, so manufacturers seem to be sticking with E-Series only when they have no other choice.
Coach House, Phoenix Cruiser and Lazy Daze build very small B+/C rigs on E450 chassis. New chassis is quieter and has a smaller dog house. Rigs with slides and other weight hogs( like heavy wood cabinets!) would be better served by this chassis.
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Old 10-31-2020, 08:35 PM   #44
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And the quality of those brands seems to be pretty impressive.
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Old 10-31-2020, 08:49 PM   #45
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One advantage of Transit chassis is a lightweight AWD option that does not raise chassis. Mercedes AWD is a no-go except on B vans and a Quigley conversion in E-series raises coach 4 inches, increasing sway and roll-over risk.
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Old 10-31-2020, 08:54 PM   #46
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If I needed a six wheel drive Mercedes: it would say "Unimog" somewhere on it...
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Old 10-31-2020, 10:29 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Rick T View Post
We have a Mercedes Sprinter Four Winds - the main decision to go with the Mercedes was the superior room in the cockpit over the Ford and Chevy chassis. We traveled across Canada and were able to comfortably travel 500 to 600 kilometers a day.
Not to mention the very low noise level at highway speed and the fact that you can actually have a conversation. We have a 2019 FW Sprinter RV, previously to that one we had a 2011 Itasca Reyo, and really like the MB chassis and the way it drives/handles with only minor addons.

If there is a downside it would be the cargo weight capacity, it works for us since it is just two of us and a dog. Sprinter RVs are probably not the most family friendly RVs. I admit that the Vegas/Axis line RVs are very nice as well and I seriously considered a 25.3 (rear slide). I have never driven one though.
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Old 10-31-2020, 10:31 PM   #48
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VERY nice looking!!!
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Old 11-01-2020, 12:57 AM   #49
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Not to mention the very low noise level at highway speed and the fact that you can actually have a conversation. We have a 2019 FW Sprinter RV, previously to that one we had a 2011 Itasca Reyo, and really like the MB chassis and the way it drives/handles with only minor addons.

If there is a downside it would be the cargo weight capacity, it works for us since it is just two of us and a dog. Sprinter RVs are probably not the most family friendly RVs. I admit that the Vegas/Axis line RVs are very nice as well and I seriously considered a 25.3 (rear slide). I have never driven one though.

Good point that actually applies to most diesels, not just Sprinters.

I looked back at Transit specs for 2019 and the in-line 5-cylinder diesel had 380 pounds less payload capacity than if it had the naturally aspirated gasoline 3.7L V6. In my opinion itís a lot of extra weight when OCCC is limited.

That much extra weight makes a Ford 3.2L I-5 diesel heavier than a 7.3L gasoline V8.
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Old 11-01-2020, 01:04 AM   #50
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Two E-Series advantages not previously discussed are much larger gas tank at 55 gallons (or 40 for SRW); although downside is that larger fuel tank is required due to lower fuel economy. Still, it provides greater driving range, and also longer generator run-time when boon-docking.

The other is a lower cab roof height which makes it easier to climb into Class C over-cab bed, and also provides more headroom in that bunk area. Downside is inferior visibility for passengers riding in back of a Class C.

Not suggesting these advantages offset older design compared to Transit and Sprinter; just saying itís not black and white. The body-on-frame design with heavy-duty engine, transmission and axles is appealing in its own way, even if ride and fuel economy are not quite on par.
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Old 11-01-2020, 01:17 AM   #51
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"Each to their own notion.", said the old woman; as she kissed the cow.
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Old 11-01-2020, 01:40 AM   #52
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Value for the money

When we bought our 28' Thor with the Ford E350 V10, the smaller Sprinters were all $10K more in price. $10K sure buys a lot of petro, and we enjoy the extra room.
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Old 11-01-2020, 02:34 AM   #53
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While the E-350/450 is in a class by itself, probably it's biggest handicap is that manufacturers are not re-tooling to modernize the floorplan, so stuck with old. None come with the popular Sprinter single slide murphybed/dinette(theater/sofa option). Likewise on-demand hot water, and MIGHT be solar ready, bur certainly no panels on roof.

But forget the E-chassis for now. Ford's made some improvements with the 2021 Transit cutaway dually chassis where it could be a Mercedes killer in the Sprinter Class C (similar with Class B van chassis). The boosted the GVWR/GCWR from it's previous lagging values to 11000/15000 almost equaling Mercedes 11030/15250. Dropped the diesel and now offer the 3.5L Ecoboost 310HP 400 ft/lb torque vs the 3.0 diesel 188HP 325 ft lb torgue. Ford offered from factory with 156WB or 178WB vs 170 WB in the Mercedes, and of course choice or RWD or AWD in the Ford. Fuel economy should be competitive when including the 87 octane vs diesel pricing. The chassis itself is less expensive than the Sprinter, with more service areas and significantly less maintenance costs.

Thus far, only two manufacturers have taken advantage of it with B+ designs. Thor, with the Compass/Gemini, but unfortunately saddled with the 156WB, impacting floorplans. Imagine if it had the 178WB and could accommodate some of the Delano floorplans. The other manufacturer is Leisure Travel Van Wonder line and it uses the 178WB with some very unique floorplans, none of which have slides. It does have other issues - like only 2 seatbelts (driver and passenger seats) with none in the house seats, including those with floorplans identical to the Mercedes based Unity line that have 4 seatbelts. One individual on a LTV forum posted a photo of the yellow sticker and OCCC was 2032 lbs on the rear twin bed floorplan.

It is puzzling why other manufacturers haven't jumped on, and Thor basically has the field all to itself. Now if it would just up the wheelbase.
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Old 11-01-2020, 04:00 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Tizeye View Post

......cut.....

It is puzzling why other manufacturers haven't jumped on, and Thor basically has the field all to itself. Now if it would just up the wheelbase.
Coachmen has been building the smaller Cross Trek on 156-inch Transit chassis, and now upgraded to AWD with 3.5L EcoBoost. Previously it was RWD with 3.7L naturally-aspirated gas engine.

The Sunseeker TS (for Transit) has been building an extra narrow but longer motorhome on the 178-inch wheelbase. I have yet to see the newest Transit chassis, so wonder whether they are still being built. Floor plans are not very good in my opinion.

Ford could easily upgrade E-Series at lower end of GVWR to better compete with Sprinter and Transit, but wonít do it because as you say, the E-Series is on its way out.
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Old 11-01-2020, 12:48 PM   #55
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Model: Four Winds 26B
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Originally Posted by Tizeye View Post
While the E-350/450 is in a class by itself, probably it's biggest handicap is that manufacturers are not re-tooling to modernize the floorplan, so stuck with old. None come with the popular Sprinter single slide murphybed/dinette(theater/sofa option). Likewise on-demand hot water, and MIGHT be solar ready, bur certainly no panels on roof.
Thor Four Winds/Chateau 25M has the fairly common murphy bed slide floorplan (similar to what's offered on MB chassis) on E-350 or Chevy 4500:
https://www.thormotorcoach.com/fourw...oor-plans/25m/

Also, a 100W solar panel is a factory option.

No on-demand hot water though.
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Old 11-01-2020, 01:11 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizeye View Post
While the E-350/450 is in a class by itself, probably it's biggest handicap is that manufacturers are not re-tooling to modernize the floorplan, so stuck with old. None come with the popular Sprinter single slide murphybed/dinette(theater/sofa option). Likewise on-demand hot water, and MIGHT be solar ready, bur certainly no panels on roof.
I'd also add that Thor added a Murphy Bed configuration to Axis/Vegas units this year (24.3). In addition Axis/Vegas units have used instant water heaters and are prepped for solar--have been for a few years. All on E-Series chassis.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:59 PM   #57
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Thor Four Winds/Chateau 25M has the fairly common murphy bed slide floorplan (similar to what's offered on MB chassis) on E-350 or Chevy 4500:
https://www.thormotorcoach.com/fourw...oor-plans/25m/

Also, a 100W solar panel is a factory option.

No on-demand hot water though.

Thank you, thatís an excellent comparison since floor plans are so similar, making it interesting to compare how chassis choice affects design (beyond luxury and content reflected in price). The Ford 25M is so new that I canít even find actual listings with pictures yet.

Ford is 25í long vs Mercedes 25í8Ē

Ford is 99Ē wide vs Mercedes 90Ē

Ford is 84Ē high inside vs Mercedes 80Ē

Both are 11í-2Ē high overall

Ford has floor step vs Mercedes flat

Ford has 55 gallon fuel vs Mercedes 26

Ford has gasoline generator vs Mercedes propane (std)

Ford has 350 HP vs Mercedes 188

Ford has 468 lb-ft torque vs Mercedes 325

Ford MSRP is $107,550 vs Mercedes $163,200


Obviously, with Mercedes price just over 50% higher, the amount of content, luxury and quality should be significantly better.

The Ford 25M floor plan at that price should sell very well.


I hope Thor continues to develop additional new Ford E-Series floor plans, particularly smaller and lighter optimized for touring rather than camping. Iím encouraged that they havenít given up on E-Series yet. Now if they could only start thinking smaller.
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Old 11-01-2020, 04:14 PM   #58
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I agree it's hard to find photos of it. This is one of the few I was able to find:
https://www.rvwholesalers.com/design...&floorplan=25m

FWIW, I actually wanted this floorplan because it's a little shorter than the one I ended up ordering, but couldn't convince my wife it would work for us. Gotta keep her happy though!

Shame this thread doesn't talk at all about the Chevy 4500 chassis. That's what I have on order, for the higher GVWR over the E-350.
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Old 11-02-2020, 12:47 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by atreis View Post
I agree it's hard to find photos of it. This is one of the few I was able to find:
https://www.rvwholesalers.com/design...&floorplan=25m

FWIW, I actually wanted this floorplan because it's a little shorter than the one I ended up ordering, but couldn't convince my wife it would work for us. Gotta keep her happy though!

Shame this thread doesn't talk at all about the Chevy 4500 chassis. That's what I have on order, for the higher GVWR over the E-350.

Please discuss Chevy if you wish since itís in same segment as Ford E-Series ó just has much lower market share of RV business. Keep in mind that Chevy 4500 is a direct competitor with E-450, and 3500 with E-350. Because Ford has higher load capacity, RV manufacturers sometimes must use Chevy 4500 where an E-350 will do. Granted, Chevy 4500 is higher GVWR than E-350 so you end up with higher OCCC. Or they can go with Ford E-450 and have even higher OCCC. I havenít driven Chevy motorhome but have driven a rental moving truck long distance, and liked the smaller doghouse. The Chevy V8 engine was a lot quieter than my V10, though new Ford V8 reportedly is much quieter (canít be much worse).

Regarding the floorplan you mentioned above, it appears just about every manufacturer is or will be building one. One of the biggest differences between them is whether they place the wardrobe in the bathroom or outside; making bathroom a bit more spacious, mostly at expense of kitchen size. Hereís an example of each.
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Old 11-02-2020, 01:02 PM   #60
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Chance,
Why not compare the Sprinter to the Transit: you keep pitting it against the 450...
You also didn't mention the Diesel's better fuel economy...
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