First long trip in my new Axis 24.1

[DavidEM]

We just got back from a 1,500+ mile trip down to NC (from Ct) in our new Axis 24.1. This thread and its subsequent sub topics will discuss handling, MH mileage, leveling, what went right and what didn't, etc. Check these subsequent topics for details.

David

[JamieGeek]

Great. Hope you enjoyed it.

Over time you end up improving and/or fixing anything that bugs you and, after some time, trips become less fixing and more enjoying.

[DavidEM]

This subtopic discusses how the rig drove and handled:

This MH has the new Ford V8 E350 chassis which is reported to solve some previous problems with handling. I have nothing to compare against, but I must say it drives pretty well.

The steering is quite solid, with no dead spot. There is a moderate return to center force. I may or may not have the alignment tweaked to improve this- increase the caster.

When big rigs passed on the left at speed I did get a push and pull, but nothing difficult to handle, except for the time when I was doing 60 and a big rig passed at 80+. When a big rig pulled back in front I got some buffeting which took more steering attention until the rig was about 100 yards away in front.

Cross wind buffeting also required more steering attention, but nothing really taxing.

I drove 8 or so hours each long day, usually in the low to mid 60s and didn't feel particularly stressed out which is the bottom line, right?

[DavidEM]

Engine and Mileage:

This V8 is reported to be a bit more efficient than the old V10 and so it seems- I averaged 12 MPG which was a great surprise. It ranged from a couple of 12.2 MPG legs down to one 11.5 MPG leg which included some slow stop and go due to traffic, road work or wrecks. These MPG figures are true fill to fill calculations.

The engine pulled strongly as one might expect from a 7.3 liter engine in a 12,500 GVWR coach. The 6 speed transmission shifted well and seemed to have the right overall ratio as I did 62 MPH at 2,000 rpm.

The transmission does have the ability to select a specific gear by first shifting into M (manual) and then hitting the + or - button on the right hand column to go up or down. I used this when going down mountains to select an appropriate gear for engine braking. Worked ok but not as nice as my Mini's floor mounted shifter.

All in all I have nothing but good to say about his engine and its transmission.

[DavidEM]

Leveling:

For now I have decided not to install hydraulic levelers but to use ramps underneath the wheels to level the coach. After first trying a POS Rhinogear 4,000 lb rated leveling ramp that broke during a test I bought these from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They are long and lift almost 6 1/2" and fit in the long side storage compartment nicely. See the pic below of the ramp as well as its other pair in the compartment. The pic shows a situation where I only needed one corner lifted to level it out reasonably. In another site I used both on the rear wheels and the unbroken mate of the Rhinogear ramp for the front and yes the Rhinogear ramp failed again with about 2,750 lbs on it out of its 4,000 lb rating.

I try to level within a degree in both directions using a bubble level app on my iPhone. I can usually eyeball what I need but sometimes it takes two tries to get it right. FWIW the Dometic spec for their absorption fridge is +/- 3 degrees side to side (which is front to back on my coach) and +/- 6 degrees the other direction. If you ever hit those extremes you won't like sleeping. Less than 1 degree the Dometic is happy and I can sleep fine.

David

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Leveling:

For now I have decided not to install hydraulic levelers but to use ramps underneath the wheels to level the coach. After first trying a POS Rhinogear 4,000 lb rated leveling ramp that broke during a test I bought these from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They are long and lift almost 6 1/2" and fit in the long side storage compartment nicely. See the pic below of the ramp as well as its other pair in the compartment. The pic shows a situation where I only needed one corner lifted to level it out reasonably. In another site I used both on the rear wheels and the unbroken mate of the Rhinogear ramp for the front and yes the Rhinogear ramp failed again.

I try to level within a degree in both directions using a bubble level app on my iPhone. I can usually eyeball what I need but sometimes it takes two tries to get it right. FWIW the Dometic spec for their absorption fridge is +/- 3 degrees side to side (which is front to back on my coach) and +/- 6 degrees the other direction. If you ever hit those extremes you won't like sleeping. Less than 1 degree the Dometic is happy and I can sleep fine.

David

For campsite leveling I have a bunch of Lynx levelers. At home I use ramps similar to what you show.

To determine if the RV is level I use a LevelMatePro. It works a bit better than a phone level app in that its mounted to the RV (so it doesn't matter what orientation your phone is at) and, when calibrated, it shows you exactly how high to raise each wheel.

[DavidEM]

We dry camped for 7 nights, so I got a good idea of how much DC power I was using. On days where we did not run the furnace (it was generally below 70 during the day and in the 40s at night) we used 35 amphours and on mornings where we ran the furnace for an hour (cycling on and off) we used close to 40 amp hours.

This was more than my pre trip tests showed as I didn't figure on any furnace time, but device charging sucked at least 5 amp hours down each day. iPads and iPhones do take some power to run.

These amp hour figures are taken from a shunt type battery monitor I installed so should be quite accurate.

At one camping site where we stayed for three nights, I started with the batteries at 90% state of charge (SOC) and after the second night they got down to 50% so I ran the generator for a couple of hours to bring them up.

FWIW the WFCO 8955 converter is a POS and only charged at 10-15 amps even starting at 50% SOC. More about this in a separate thread.

David

[Muggs]

Excellent info. We just got back frim NC (Ashboro area) in our 2016 24.1. We are approaching 40,000 miles shortly. Just got new tires (almost 6 years old time not wear) and windshield (rock on US27). We have had no real issues, normal wear and tear over 5 years. We do have the e450 and v10 and average 10 to 11 MPG. Half or more of the miles are pulling 5,500 lb open racecar trailer. The 24.1 never sits long as we use it for local races.

I did put a roadmaster stabilizer as oem was weak. Other than that, no real handling issues. Wife has driven and towed car to track and has no complaints.

We use the leveling ramps as it is simple in campgrounds.

Unit is always plugged in and is still on original house batteries. I will replace chassis battery in fall. Is on 2nd battery at moment.

[DavidEM]

All MHs are going to have glitches and we had a few. First the good stuff:

I tried the A/C running on the generator for about a half hour when I waited in the MH while my wife went into the grocery store for some forgotten items. The A/C worked very well. The ceiling ducted air was well distributed and the interior noise was minimal. I checked outside and the generator noise overwhelmed the A/C noise. That Onan 4kw generator is LOUD.

The propane furnace worked fine, a little noisy but we only used it for an hour or so in the morning after we woke up.

Like I said in a previous subtopic the engine ran great and the mileage was phenomenal. Handling was also good.

Windshield- I will just have to get used to washing bugs off of that huge windshield which gives a great view.

The storage on this coach is incredible. I got an E Bike, a fire pit, two long levelers and a couple of shorter ones, jack and jack stand, four camp chairs, etc all in the basement storage compartments and I still haven't used one of them.

Now for the bad stuff:

The BM Pro Rapid Camp touch screen display and controller is a POS. I yearn for the simple switches on my former T/T and 5th wheel. Important, critical things like the slide in and out and the water pump are only controlled by this system, and they sometimes didn't work.

I would have to jockey the slide in and out a couple of times to get it all of the way in. The water pump would mysteriously shut off while taking a shower. Fortunately all I had to do was turn it off and back on to get it to work again but that is not so easy when you are dripping wet with soap in your eyes.

I did have a conversation with Thor about this before I left on this long trip and he said I may have to update its app which I tried to do when I got home where I had a wifi connection. It failed to update. So more conversations with Thor are required. I may install simple rocker switches for these critical items and bypass the BM Pro.

The Dometic absorption fridge was good and bad. It doesn't have an adjustable thermostat so it keeps the fridge at almost 32 and the freezer near zero which is colder than it needs to be and uses more propane than necessary. But it worked and was big enough at 6 cu ft for a weeks worth of cold food.

FWIW, according to the external propane tank gauge we used about 10 lbs of propane over 8 days for cooking, fridge and a couple of hours of furnace use.

David

[atreis]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

The Dometic absorption fridge was good and bad. It doesn't have an adjustable thermostat so it keeps the fridge at almost 32 and the freezer near zero which is colder than it needs to be and uses more propane than necessary. But it worked and was big enough at 6 cu ft for a weeks worth of cold food.

Just FYI on this one: The thermistor for adjusting the temperature is attached to a little piece of plastic that attaches to one of the aluminum cooling fins inside the refrigerator, usually on the right side. You adjust the temperature by sliding it up (colder) and down (warmer) on the fin. Sounds like you need to slide it down a little.

As far as I know, you can't adjust the temperature of the freezer. It's relative to the fridge.

Getting a little fan to help circulate air in the fridge can help keep the temperature more uniform. There are several available. I have this one:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CWVYLQD

[Muggs]

Our fridge is set on 3 on power and 4 on propane. Fan does help, still using blue one that I bought back in 2016. We keep stuff like milk on door to keep from freezing if we do not adjust temp. In 5 years only defrosted twice.

Our Onan only has 517 hours on it. Used primarily on road. Carry Champion RV (130v) on racecar trailer that likely has over 5000 hrs now. We usually keep that running at track unless cool out (no a/c). Noise never really an issue for us at track or on road. I keep Onan door open when static, I belive newer has door vent.

Windshield a pain to clean in florida lovebug season. Rain-X helps keep from sticking and limits wiper use (smearing).

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Engine and Mileage:

This V8 is reported to be a bit more efficient than the old V10 and so it seems- I averaged 12 MPG which was a great surprise. It ranged from a couple of 12.2 MPG legs down to one 11.5 MPG leg which included some slow stop and go due to traffic, road work or wrecks. These MPG figures are true fill to fill calculations.

The engine pulled strongly as one might expect from a 7.3 liter engine in a 12,500 GVWR coach. The 6 speed transmission shifted well and seemed to have the right overall ratio as I did 62 MPH at 2,000 rpm.

The transmission does have the ability to select a specific gear by first shifting into M (manual) and then hitting the + or - button on the right hand column to go up or down. I used this when going down mountains to select an appropriate gear for engine braking. Worked ok but not as nice as my Mini's floor mounted shifter.

All in all I have nothing but good to say about his engine and its transmission.

That’s good to know. I assume you were not towing since not mentioned.

Your 62 MPH at 2,000 RPM suggests that the E-350 chassis used on newest 24.1 is ordered with taller 4.10 final gears, which helps with fuel economy.

Calculated speed at 2,000 RPM is ~ 61 MPH. Motorhomes built on E-450 which have 4.56 final gearing should run 55 MPH at same 2,000 RPM.

In my opinion 12 MPG is really good for a gasoline Class A motorhome the size of yours. There are various smaller Ford Transit and RAM ProMaster B+ with V6 engines half the size of your V8 that don’t do much better than 12 MPG.

[DavidEM]

Originally Posted by Chance

That’s good to know. I assume you were not towing since not mentioned.

Your 62 MPH at 2,000 RPM suggests that the E-350 chassis used on newest 24.1 is ordered with taller 4.10 final gears, which helps with fuel economy.

Calculated speed at 2,000 RPM is ~ 61 MPH. Motorhomes built on E-450 which have 4.56 final gearing should run 55 MPH at same 2,000 RPM.

In my opinion 12 MPG is really good for a gasoline Class A motorhome the size of yours. There are various smaller Ford Transit and RAM ProMaster B+ with V6 engines half the size of your V8 that don’t do much better than 12 MPG.

Yes, there was no toad.

I understand that Thor specifies the taller gear ratio for the 24.1 and the mileage shows the result!!! I don't feel that it is too tall for the coach's weight at all, just right.

The mileage is surprising for a big V8 and as you note, isn't much worse than a smaller V6. But I bet the V6 is running at significantly higher rpms at 62 mph and the higher rpms offset the benefits of the lower displacement. Friction losses are related to speed and piston and bearing contact area to be a bit technical about it all.

In fact that mileage makes the fuel cost per mile on par with Mercedes Sprinter diesel based MHs. In my travels, diesel was always at least 20% more per gallon than gasoline. That pretty well levels the playing field.

David

[sportcoupe]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

That Onan 4kw generator is LOUD.

David

Does anyone know of a mod to help quiet the generator?

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by sportcoupe

Does anyone know of a mod to help quiet the generator?

This guy is reported to reduce generator noise:
Gen-Turi Generator Exhaust Venting System

[DavidEM]

I think the mechanical noise is as bad as the exhaust noise. That is the nature of light, air cooled gas engines.

If I knew I was going to run it much, I would replace it with the new Onan inverter generator. Much quieter at partial loads because it runs slower.

David

[sportcoupe]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

This guy is reported to reduce generator noise:
Gen-Turi Generator Exhaust Venting System

That is pretty ugly

[sportcoupe]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I think the mechanical noise is as bad as the exhaust noise. That is the nature of light, air cooled gas engines.

If I knew I was going to run it much, I would replace it with the new Onan inverter generator. Much quieter at partial loads because it runs slower.

David

The inverter generator is still a "light, air cooled gas engine" an inherently noisy as you implied. I can assure you it is not as loud, I have a Honda 2000 clone, very quiet. Expensive though.

I can imagine the Onan inverter 4000 watt is super expensive. Quieting down what you have is cheaper.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by sportcoupe

The inverter generator is still a "light, air cooled gas engine" an inherently noisy as you implied. I can assure you it is not as loud, I have a Honda 2000 clone, very quiet. Expensive though.

I can imagine the Onan inverter 4000 watt is super expensive. Quieting down what you have is cheaper.

Onan released the 2800i (inverter) about a year ago, but I haven’t seen any information on the larger 4000i model yet. The 2800i is not rated as quiet as a Honda 2200/1800, but is rated significantly quieter than the existing 4,000-Watt Onan.

The 2800i is obviously much larger than the smaller 2200/1800 Hondas, and can power a single air conditioner with plenty to spare, so may be enough power for some smaller motorhomes. It will be interesting to see if the 4000i will be quieter when powering one A/C because it may run slower.

[DavidEM]

I too am anxiously waiting reviews of the Onan 4000i if and when it becomes available. The 2800i was available on Norwall's web site late last year. They have since dropped the price a few bucks and it is now $2,915 which isn't that much more than the non inverter engine 2800 which you can still buy for about $2,500.

Their specs says it will start and run a 13,500 btu/hr A/C which implies that it may have problems with the 15,000 bth/hr A/C on my Axis. Maybe a soft start package would help, but I wouldn't risk it.

Given the relatively low price of the 2800i, I am hoping that the 4000i will only be a few hundred $ more if and when it is available.

I truly believe that in a few years, all gas engine RVs will have the Cummins inverter generators. They are inherently quieter and the EFI eliminates fuel fouling problems.

David

David