Have you had a warranty problem that Thor won't fix?

[simidrm]

Been there with our toad, a 2019 wrangler we bought from a dealer in a neighboring city and our local jeep dealer said they couldn’t do any warranty work on something they didn’t sell, after complaints to jeep themselves we found out that is not true, any jeep authorized dealer can perform warranty work but some don’t like too do the work out of spite for not buying from them, actually the dealers can get into trouble for not doing the work, I’m sure this is true with any vehicle or brand just the dealers way of getting out of doing it, I bet if you called Thor and told them what that dealer said they would be in trouble.

[Hoovis]

Originally Posted by jabrabu

One dealer doesn't do any work on any RV they didn't sell. Another local Thor dealer said that since mine is a Chateau and they sell the Four Winds they couldn't do any warranty work. This seemed totally ridiculous to me since the Chateau and Four Winds are essentially identical except for some interior trim colors. They said this was Thor's policy, but I'm not sure.

I ran into this in several states. I'm not certain if I recall this correctly, but I believe I was told (by the service centers) on multiple occasions that it is state laws that prevent them from working on models that they don't sell themselves. I was told it isn't the case in all states, but in some states it is. (The Thor owner's website service locator shows the models authorized and/or sold at each place... or at least I recall that being the case for the states where this applied.)

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by simidrm

Been there with our toad, a 2019 wrangler we bought from a dealer in a neighboring city and our local jeep dealer said they couldn’t do any warranty work on something they didn’t sell, after complaints to jeep themselves we found out that is not true, any jeep authorized dealer can perform warranty work but some don’t like too do the work out of spite for not buying from them, actually the dealers can get into trouble for not doing the work, I’m sure this is true with any vehicle or brand just the dealers way of getting out of doing it, I bet if you called Thor and told them what that dealer said they would be in trouble.

No the dealer would not be in trouble. RV dealers are not required to work on units they did not sell. Thor had a disclaimer on their web site encouraging folks to buy local for this very reason.

It is not state law or anything other than dealers policies. Dealers must work on units they sold to costumers unless explained up front prior to sale.

[JimEasTexas]

I bought my Thor 2021 Four Winds out of state, Thor contacted a local dealer for me too get all of my warranty work/issues completed. Local dealer has treated me as if I bought from them.

[kwplot34]

Go into the C and Super C section and look at all the issues with the front cap coming loose and Thor's lack of support in fixing them. Thor will fix and goodwill the small easy things, when it comes to a major problem, forget it, you're on your own.
Thor's customer service, QC and honoring their warranty is terrible.

[Hoovis]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

Go into the C and Super C section and look at all the issues with the front cap coming loose and Thor's lack of support in fixing them. Thor will fix and goodwill the small easy things, when it comes to a major problem, forget it, you're on your own.
Thor's customer service, QC and honoring their warranty is terrible.

Thanks kw. Any chance you can summarize briefly? Again, my main question to other owners relates to if/when a warranty issue cannot or will not be resolved. I'd like to believe that there is a decent course of action between Thor and the customer that allows reasonable people to find common ground, but perhaps I'm too optimistic. After more than three months, I can't get Thor to provide any of the assurances they agreed to do to indicate my issues have been resolved (which they agreed would take no longer than 45 days).

Again, truly happy for all of the people posting on this thread who have had a great experience with customer service and had their problems resolved. For us... our coach just never worked like it should, and it wasn't trivial stuff. (No furnace, no A/C, no water pump, no lights, etc... and no, not always... just when you seemed to really need it.) I won't speak for any of you, but I give my whole family huge kudos for tolerating this challenge and always hoping the next stop will be a fix. It never was. It's one thing to have everything malfunction (despite being plugged in to 50 amp service) during 25 degree nights... and then it becomes a whole separate safety issue when the dashboard won't turn on when trying to drive.

Sorry, kw, I went on a tangent. I guess I'm still too cryptic trying to avoid the obvious. So I'll just say it: Does anyone have a suggestion how to avoid litigation if your product under warranty cannot be fixed? Thor asked me to give them an opportunity to avoid exactly that (which I happily agreed to do out of respect), yet I am now being played for a fool. This issue began before the dealer allowed our coach to be picked up, and continues to this day (well, that is an assumption as Thor won't say that it isn't still ongoing). At what point should a defective product, that cannot or will not be fixed under warranty, no longer become the burden of the consumer?

My apologies for the rant. Please poke holes and criticize me at will. I'm trying my best to be as reasonable as possible, but Thor is not giving me many options. Hoping some of you can help me figure out what is best for all of us, as all of these things have an impact (minor as it may be) on the whole community. Thanks.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Hoovis

Thanks kw. Any chance you can summarize briefly? Again, my main question to other owners relates to if/when a warranty issue cannot or will not be resolved. I'd like to believe that there is a decent course of action between Thor and the customer that allows reasonable people to find common ground, but perhaps I'm too optimistic. After more than three months, I can't get Thor to provide any of the assurances they agreed to do to indicate my issues have been resolved (which they agreed would take no longer than 45 days).

.

The short answer to the statement highlighted in RED is NO. My suggestion is unfortunately going to take you a while. Get your favorite beverages, a comfortable chair, and do a search. Search the postings by Kwplot34, judge, me and related postings about specific things like front cap, air conditioner ducting, quality control. That'll keep you busy for a few hours, maybe days, if you read in-depth. As KWplot said, thor will gladly refer you to the nearest authorized service facility, remember authorized not competent facility, for the easy cheap stuff. Start talking about real problems and you'll get shut down, ignored, or stalled.

The part in blue is the stall part. When you talk to thor CS if you ask about more than one thing you likely will get just one answer, not a complete comprehensive one. Thus they stall you hoping you'll forget and any warranty runs out. But the canned answer is take it that "authorized repair facility" and since CW/Gander sells a lot of thor stuff you get to deal with that level of RV servicing competence/incompetence.

Get comfortable while reading the issues and enjoy.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Hoovis

Thanks kw. Any chance you can summarize briefly? Again, my main question to other owners relates to if/when a warranty issue cannot or will not be resolved. I'd like to believe that there is a decent course of action between Thor and the customer that allows reasonable people to find common ground, but perhaps I'm too optimistic. After more than three months, I can't get Thor to provide any of the assurances they agreed to do to indicate my issues have been resolved (which they agreed would take no longer than 45 days).

Again, truly happy for all of the people posting on this thread who have had a great experience with customer service and had their problems resolved. For us... our coach just never worked like it should, and it wasn't trivial stuff. (No furnace, no A/C, no water pump, no lights, etc... and no, not always... just when you seemed to really need it.) I won't speak for any of you, but I give my whole family huge kudos for tolerating this challenge and always hoping the next stop will be a fix. It never was. It's one thing to have everything malfunction (despite being plugged in to 50 amp service) during 25 degree nights... and then it becomes a whole separate safety issue when the dashboard won't turn on when trying to drive.

Sorry, kw, I went on a tangent. I guess I'm still too cryptic trying to avoid the obvious. So I'll just say it: Does anyone have a suggestion how to avoid litigation if your product under warranty cannot be fixed? Thor asked me to give them an opportunity to avoid exactly that (which I happily agreed to do out of respect), yet I am now being played for a fool. This issue began before the dealer allowed our coach to be picked up, and continues to this day (well, that is an assumption as Thor won't say that it isn't still ongoing). At what point should a defective product, that cannot or will not be fixed under warranty, no longer become the burden of the consumer?

My apologies for the rant. Please poke holes and criticize me at will. I'm trying my best to be as reasonable as possible, but Thor is not giving me many options. Hoping some of you can help me figure out what is best for all of us, as all of these things have an impact (minor as it may be) on the whole community. Thanks.

Might I inquire as to why you picked it up, accepted delivery, if the defects were already apparent? You state that the issues began before the dealer allowed it to be picked up.

[Hoovis]

Originally Posted by chunker21

The short answer to the statement highlighted in RED is NO.

Get comfortable while reading the issues and enjoy.

Thanks chunker. Obviously not ideal, but a straight answer that is helpful.

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Might I inquire as to why you picked it up, accepted delivery, if the defects were already apparent? You state that the issues began before the dealer allowed it to be picked up.

Jimbo, the dealership in New York was never straight with me about the problems. They indicated that there were a variety of things that they wanted to make "perfect" before letting it go. (Wood pieces that were scratched, misc. plastic parts, etc.). They claimed that the excessive heat (it was summer) was overloading their electrical grid and was resulting in some power issues for my coach that they wanted to be sure was fixed. (I now know exactly what that was, and why they wouldn't let me have a driver pick it up for a month.)

In hindsight, I should have done a refusal of acceptance at that time. In my defense, they told me all problems were resolved and it was working normally, and was ready for pick up other than cosmetic items. See, that's the thing... the problem is intermittent. It will be working normally at times, and then I'm sent on my way with a clean bill of health, only to find the problem again shortly thereafter.

In short, nobody said to me that there was a defect. In fact, it took me some time to realize that this was all the same issue. I didn't willingly accept a defective unit. I was told that the problems keeping it from being picked up were cosmetic, which I said I didn't care about and scratched wood pieces could be repaired later. They didn't tell me that the electronics intermittently didn't work. I think once it was working just fine, they sent it on its way with a clean bill of health.

I can't be certain, but I suspect Thor is trying to do the same thing today... essentially saying that it's working fine (at the moment), so take it back. I suspect there is a very deliberate reason why they refuse to tell me that they have resolved the problem, and why they refuse to deliver a report from a third party inspector to corroborate that everything is working as designed. Those are two things they assured me they would do... but after three months in the shop, they still refuse to do what they promised, and instead just keep telling me it is "ready." I don't get the impression that anyone wants to get to the root cause of the problem, which is becoming increasingly frustrating. They just want me to cash a small check and release any liability from their end. I want the coach to work. We are at a stalemate.

[rvaction2015]

Window leak which was caused by Thor cutting the window opening in such a rough manner the seal did not work. We did not realize the leak until about the one year of owner ship of our brand new coach.
Since Thor only warrants windows for 90 days they would not pay for the $4,000.00 repair.
Photos were taken and you can see the water entery was due to the cut.

[PreCambrian]

I haven't had any real warranty issues. My new Thor Four Winds 22E held up well in our first two month trip with the biggest problem being that the cheap USB charger near the bed went out. I bought one at a West Marine and replaced it myself. I am concerned about some small "bubbles" in the TPO roof that the dealer says not to worry about.

Finding people knowledgeable in fixing intermittent electrical problems is difficult even in the industrial settings where I worked let alone at an RV dealership. In addition the electrical system is a cross between a 12VDC mobile, 120/240VAC residential, and a residential power plant (generator).

The only way that you are going to solve the problem is to put a power monitoring and recording device(s) on the AC and DC systems. It will need to monitor voltage to neutral, voltage to ground or voltage between neutral and ground, DC voltage, which mode it is in (shore, generator, inverter, etc.). It sounds to me as most likely an intermittent neutral problem, which were always the most difficult for me to solve, causes unusual symptoms, and can have devastating consequences. Solving the problem is made even worse since there really aren't any good drawings. Normally I can look at a complete set of drawings and tell where the problem most likely is located but the drawings that I have seen don't indicate the neutrals, don't indicate the neutral to ground point(s), don't show if the transfer switch switches the neutral, don't indicate the control wiring for the power switching components like transfer switches, BIRDs, inverters, etc. and when you are new to the RV world like me, you don't know what is typical.

[DogLovers]

I have had (3) Thor products. A twin axle camping trailer, A Mercedes Chassied Class C and now a big Tuscany diesel pusher. All had issuse of one type or another. The trailer issues were minor and the local dealer fixed them then after that if something annoyed me I just fixed it myself. The Class C was more challenging with lots of stuff going on so I took it in to the factory by appointment and left it with them for some days and they took care of everything and it all stayed fixed. This diesel pusher has had things go wrong but I go to a local place or do it myself. Except I do have an appointment at the factory in April 2023, some trucker took out my side mirror and scratched the side of my rig when he merged into me in a construction zone. So Im having the factory change out the remote heated. camered mirror and do the paint work as well as a few other things. My experience with them in the past was they fixed my stuff and in some cases made it better than before.

Absolutely the worst about RV ownewship is they all have crap wrong with them the day you buy it and drive away. Once you realize a house bouncing down the road is going to fall apart you will get used to fixing small stuff. As long as the engine, allison trans, drive train and suspension are in good working order, everything else to fix is gravy.

[Hoovis]

Here is the update: Nearly two weeks ago, Thor's liaison told me that my "coach is in fact completed and ready to ship back." Yet again, however, they refused to respond with anything that would indicate the problem had been resolved. They simply showed a third-party inspection report, which was exceptionally vague, and stated that I could contact the inspector directly.

I contacted the inspector that same day, and asked if he had been given any knowledge of the history of the coach and the reason it was there for service. He said no, and that the paperwork was quite vague. He told me that with this new info, he needed to see the coach again. He said he was only given superficial information and what I mentioned indicated much further testing was needed on the electrical system. He said that he wold immediately contact the liaison I was working with to get access to the coach again to test the problems that I described, and that he'd contact me once he had access again, which he hoped would be the next day. (I also responded indicating that the the inspector needed access again to be able to test the coach for the reasons it was there for service in the first place.)

I didn't get a call back from the inspector and I haven't heard anything from Thor. It was Christmas week, and I presumed that perhaps things were slow due to the holidays.

On Thursday, however, I learned my coach is on it's way to be delivered to me. I heard this from the delivery driver when I was notified it will be at my house early next week. Hmmm... I had responded to Thor the same day (a week and a half earlier) with a request to let the inspector in with the knowledge of why it was there, and to not send it back unless they can answer that they have resolved the problem. They clearly didn't do that. I haven't heard back again from the inspector to confirm, but I don't think he was allowed access again. Instead, Thor again refused to say anything that would indicate the problem had been resolved, and instead simply began shipping the vehicle back to me.

And there remains the rub. Thor refuses to say they resolved the electrical problem. They admit they had two previous independent inspectors see it, yet I never received any reports from them. They did get an independent inspector report to me a couple weeks ago, yet, when I asked that inspector about it by phone, he said his items to check were vague, and he'd need to see it again for significant electrical testing.

Thor keeps telling me I'm in good hands. My "liaison" has direct access to the President of Thor Motor Coach and will "make it right," as he has claimed. He told me we don't need to get lawyers involved. If they can't fix it, they'll tell me and will repurchase it, he claimed. He said, let us have a final opportunity to fix it. He told me it was essentially the same as filing a legal claim, but he requested that I avoid lawyers as the outcome would be the same, so why not give them the chance to make it right.

I guess I'm the fool. Without lawyers, they don't even care to fix it, apparently. Four months after they took possession, they have sent it on its way back to me merely stating it is "ready," but refusing to say anything that would indicate the problem is resolved. To make matters worse, their supposed verification from the inspector (in regards to this issue) was merely for him to check that the keypad was working properly with no error codes, and it doesn't sound like he was let back in once he was aware of the actual problem.


I truly appreciate all of you that have had a great experience with Thor. Truly happy for you. My treatment seems to be far different. In 2022 alone, it has been out of my possession for 7 months trying to rectify this problem, and it looks as though Thor's stance is to send it back with the problem unresolved.

Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to respond. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

Originally Posted by rvaction2015

Since Thor only warrants windows for 90 days they would not pay for the $4,000.00 repair.

Sounds infuriating, rvaction. I feel your pain.

Originally Posted by DogLovers

Absolutely the worst about RV ownewship is they all have crap wrong with them the day you buy it and drive away. Once you realize a house bouncing down the road is going to fall apart you will get used to fixing small stuff. As long as the engine, allison trans, drive train and suspension are in good working order, everything else to fix is gravy.

Sorry, but I need to disagree, DogLovers. I see your point, but I suspect you never had your entire electrical panel malfunction to the point that you no longer have heat or A/C, lights or water, etc., for long periods of time. (The chassis working helps, as you mention, but as a reminder, in my case, my dashboard also didn't work while I was dealing with the rest of it from the east coast back to Seattle.)

Originally Posted by PreCambrian

The only way that you are going to solve the problem is to put a power monitoring and recording device(s) on the AC and DC systems.

I think you nailed it! My problem is that Thor won't bother to do this, apparently... even when the independent inspector wanted to do so once he learned of the history on my coach. Your assessment is the same as that of the inspector. Makes you wonder why Thor refuses to allow it. (Or perhaps they already have done it and know that they can't resolve the problem.)

[kwplot34]

DO NOT accept that coach back, do not take the keys or any paper work and DO NOT sign anything. If it is left on your property DO NOT touch it until you have talked to an attorney.

[16ACE27]

Like most things now-a-days - you have to do it yourself. Line up a local inspector to inspect the coach to your satisfaction. If he finds the issues are unresolved his report will go a long way in the legal process; should it resort to that.

[PreCambrian]

I have been thinking about your problem some. Most likely you will have to fix it yourself as 16ACE27 says. I was looking for a cheap monitoring system and it appears that the Sense system would work on the AC side of your power system. See https://sense.com/

The "Flex" option would allow you to monitor systems with two power sources. I would put it on shore power and either the generator or the inverter, whichever you use the most. After thinking more about the problems as you describe them, I think it is either in the neutral (either intermittent neutral or neutral to ground problems) or in the transfer switch(es), either in the control side of the transfer switch or the actual power legs (and neutral if they are switching the neutral). I haven't looked at the Sense system in detail but it does allow monitoring the voltages of the two power legs plus the neutral and it monitors the current from two sources. It would be helpful to know what source of power (shore, generator, inverter/DC)you were using when your problem starts.

Good luck

I don't have much experience with RV power systems but I have a lot of experience designing industrial and utility AC and DC systems with multiple power sources.

[Hoovis]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I do not yet have "official" legal representation, but I will soon. I have a few lawyers that have been helping out regarding some general advice and getting to the proper referral, but the consensus was that there was no issue with taking the coach back. It was either going to be dumped on my doorstep without the keys, or I could tell the driver to deliver it to my storage facility. Either way, I refused to sign any paperwork, letting the transport company know that signing anything might give Thor a false indication that I was accepting it as "satisfactory."

I'm now just waiting on official legal advice. It seems to be a matter of breach of warranty, according to the lawyers I've spoken to. I'm waiting to hear whether it matters or not if the problem is resolved. Clearly, if the electrical system fails again, it is a stronger case, but the hassle and/or expense to determine that may or may not be worthwhile. Given how Thor has handled this, and given the number of service calls already, it may not be my responsibility to prove it one way or the other. It is possible that Thor's refusal to let the inspector back in is a clear breach of the warranty given the number of attempts I've already made, in good faith, to have this resolved.

So we'll see. At this point, I'm not doing anything without the advice of an attorney. It remains perplexing why Thor would bring in an inspector, but not give any knowledge as to the main reason it is in service. Even more perplexing why they would ignore the inspectors requests to see it again, once he was aware of the reasons it was sent there. Instead, Thor ignored him, and 10 days later shipped it a couple thousand miles away so he couldn't look at it again.

Or perhaps it isn't perplexing at all. I can only think of one reason why Thor would handle it in this manner.

[kwplot34]

Thanks for the update. Keep us updated on the progress to please.

[Hoovis]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

Thanks for the update. Keep us updated on the progress to please.

After a lot of calls and troubleshooting, I found two different independent technicians to inspect my coach. (It took some calling to realize I didn't need just an inspector, but a technician. I was able to find two people that are both.)

The first technician found that there were large fluctuations in the voltage, regardless of being on shore power or under coach power. He suspects that it is probably a bad inverter/converter that has been causing all/most of the problems, but wouldn't rule out other issues as well. He said there is definitely a problem, though, and voltage irregularities would explain a lot of my issues. The specific and very obvious issues that I have had countless times before were not replicated, but in a similar manner, there were often and ongoing times when the keypad would fail to give any readings at all from the inverter/converter.

I had made a second appointment with another technician to cover my bases, and dropped off the coach to them this afternoon for a second opinion. They seem knowledgable, so why not get another independent technician to take a look? They had me leave it with them, but a quick look at the keypad and a quick look/listen to the batteries... they simply stated that things aren't normal, and they'd like to keep it for a while to monitor things.

Keep in mind, Thor told me the keypad just needed a software update. This sounded suspect to me, so last week I contacted Firefly (who makes the keypad and motherboard) to get their take. Their tech support told me that there is basically zero chance it was a software update. They said it could be explained if their hardware had failed (resulting in the keypad being unable to display readings), but software wasn't the issue. They surmised that if it is the G12 motherboard, something had probably caused it to fail (like a voltage problem or similar).

All of this, is also consistent with what the inspector said in Indiana... the inspector whom Thor says already approved the coach, but he confirmed to me twice that he only approved the superficial things that were on his list. (Remember, when he was made aware of the actual issues, he wanted to go back in to see it again and do tests... but Thor shipped it back to me 10 days later, never responding to him, and simply told me they "already received his approval.")

I can't be sure, but reading further into this and other threads, I get the impression that my situation is rather unique. I'll chalk that up to being a good thing for nearly everybody... just not me. I'm left to wonder if they even tested the inverter during the four months. You'd think so, right? In one of my phone calls, someone stated that to replace the entire flooring in my motorhome, they had to pull the coach up and off the chassis. If that is true, the guess was that they replaced all the wiring or at least inspected for a bad ground. Is that remotely logical... without ever testing the inverter? Frankly, I don't know. The "story" from Thor makes little sense, assuming they ever actually wanted to find the problem. Or they couldn't, and just pretended they did. Bizarre, either way.

It all still leaves the mystery of, "what then, did Thor actually do in those four months?" (That they agreed will not exceed 45 days.) And they sent it back stating that it just needed a "software update." I now have verification of what Firefly and a consensus of other phone calls and technicians indicate... the software isn't the problem, or at least was only a small part of a much bigger problem, at most.

So I move on to the next step, which clearly involves a breach of warranty. Very frustrating. My family really wanted to be able to keep traveling, but the adventure becomes burdensome when you can't even control the temperature. We tolerated 4 weeks of glitches getting from the Eastern Shore to Seattle last summer, but other than that, our coach has remained unusable since April.

Painful even writing it. Since April, it's only use has been to try to get home, without A/C in the summer, and that whole trip was with a non-operating dashboard, so I had no gauges for over 3k miles (I called a half dozen Freightliner service centers from VA to MN, and nobody would get me in within 5 weeks for a safety concern)... Wow! Even more crazy when I type it out.

I'm all ears if you have any experience/suggestions. I think that Thor presumed they'd end up with a cash settlement situation. However, there is still no clear diagnosis how to actually resolve the electrical problem, so no amount of money is worthwhile to the owner. The expense alone to find it may be uneconomical, so I clearly would be a fool to take that on myself. Please tell me where I'm wrong, but I don't see any way that this doesn't go to litigation, unless Thor uses these technician reports to make it right and take it back.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Hoovis

After a lot of calls and troubleshooting, I found two different independent technicians to inspect my coach. (It took some calling to realize
I'm all ears if you have any experience/suggestions. I think that Thor presumed they'd end up with a cash settlement situation. However, there is still no clear diagnosis how to actually resolve the electrical problem, so no amount of money is worthwhile to the owner. The expense alone to find it may be uneconomical, so I clearly would be a fool to take that on myself. Please tell me where I'm wrong, but I don't see any way that this doesn't go to litigation, unless Thor uses these technician reports to make it right and take it back.

You have a lemon but unfortunately most lemon laws in states do not cover any of the house stuff, only chassis. 25 years ago I forced GM to buy back a 96 GMC pickup, engine drivability issues, by employing the lemon laws of Florida. The requirements to use the lemon law were spelled out strictly. The chances that your state has consumer protection under any lemon law for your issues which are mainly house is pretty slim.

Thor considers you a thorn and hopes you go away. They have used the deception and delay tactics to stall you ignoring their responsibility in any of this. Thor customer service is largely a farce designed to handle minor issues with the basic "take it to an authorized dealer" advice. The longer you keep the RV the worse it gets and your lives will be miserable. Face it, you can't go on a trip with any confidence you will get back.

My suggestion is quit talking to thor and hire a great consumer lawyer. Frankly I mostly hate lawyers but sometimes even pond scum can be useful. If you have the financial resources, park it, get another RV to travel and let the legal system work. Obviously the suit against thor should include reimbursement for ALL expenses and damages you have occurred. I understand it's likely you don't have the financial resources to just go get another RV with potentially hundreds of thousands of $$ tied up in the thor lemon. If you are financed, stopping payments won't hurt thor, just you.

When I determined that my thor omni XG32 was too problematic, I bit the bullet and dumped it. My financial hit is minuscule compared to what you likely are facing but in the end, if you have been straight with us in your comments, you should prevail. Good luck with it and for you next RV get anything but a thor product.