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Old 06-28-2020, 09:57 PM   #21
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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Magnum ME2012 with the ME-RC remote

Magnum also makes a new 'Hybrid' model which allows you to supplement your electrical needs with help from the batteries, if needed, usually for these situations where you are on 'limited' power... I'm sure it also allows for any additional incoming solar power to do the same.
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:55 PM   #22
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Thanks for the info: it sounds like a winner!
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Old 06-28-2020, 11:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
The Inverter, unless it is a HYBRID design, is simply 'passing thru' shore power to those items normally otherwise powered by the inverter.
So, the outcome is the same. If you are using 12amps, you are using 12amps, regardless of whether the inverter is ON or OFF, when plugged into shore power.
I think that is the test I wanted to see when I get my coach back. I have NEVER consciously turned on Inverter when I had any kind of shore power. I do have Magnum Inverter CSW 1012, but I assume it is the basic 1000 watt variety; so I am sure it does nothing special.

I think your point may save me from a test because if I follow; you are saying for the few in house electrical receptacles that are also connected to inverter, they ALWAYS consume off the shore power if it is available? Therefore on/off switch to inverter has no effect while shore power is on. Coincidentally the batteries would be getting a slow trickle charged even though the inverter is not being used.

Now that I hopefully got that right, can I throw another twist Assuming all of the above is true, but I am just determined to not trip that 15/20 amp breaker. So given what I just learned, I go outside and and plug two extension cords to the 110 VAC output on my Magnum. I then plug my outdoor refrigerator and TVs to the extension cords. Will I then be drawing current from my batteries, and NOT the shore power thus reducing load on the 15/20 amp receptacle..., and all the while the shorepower would be charging my house batteries?
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:23 AM   #24
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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Right on...

and, I see your idea, but I don't think the Inverter knows or cares 'where' you are plugging in, whether on the unit itself, or on one of the circuits that it provides power to...since whenever the Inverter senses 120v Shore Power, it simply goes into 'silent' mode, and sends the power on thru to the circuits, only 'waking up' when the Shore Power is lost(if the Inverter is turned 'ON', of course).

Now, if you want to get creative, and do a little 'electrical' modifications, you 'could' conceivably turn OFF the circuit breaker that provides pass-thru Shore Power to your Inverter, thereby removing the ability for it to 'sense' any 120v power, and therefore, as long as it is turned ON, while be INVERTING to the outlet or the circuits wired to it.
The negative, though, is that the Inverter AND Shore Power will then both be in play, making for some confusion if not thought out correctly.

In my situation, though, this would not allow MY Battery Charger to function, as it is using that same breaker, and 120v power from the Shore.

YOUR Inverter, even if a Magnum brand, may work differently than mine, since the FACTORY decides how they want to wire your RV. You may only have the Fridge with Inverter power, or an additional outlet, and yours may also NOT have an integrated Battery Charger, which changes the equation.
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:51 AM   #25
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We have the Magnum and use it accordingly

Reminds me of the first 20 years or so of RV'S with only a 20 amp power cord and no AC

Hand water pump and 12v or gas lights

How things changed
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Old 06-29-2020, 12:23 PM   #26
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right, and I've never used the term 'camping' for our own situation, as I've always viewed 'camping' as those in tents, with no electricity or running water, and only cooking by campfire, generally even in areas that are not even 'campgrounds'!

Terminology, or our use of words, sometimes muddles the waters, for sure.

We've always said that we are 'RVing', which might invoke a different idea to those who hear it. We have an RV, we use it as it is designed, and use it anywhere we wish. Sometimes that a parking lot. Sometimes it's a high-end 'RV' resort. And sometimes it's right along side those 'campers' I just mentioned, like at the campground we just left. Grandma and Grandpa were 'tenting' right next door, on a slightly slanted hillside, in the summer heat, and even passing stormy weather, with a campfire, and several folding chairs...that was it. There were cans scattered on the ground, trash piled up next to a tree, and a small dog that barked at everything that moved.
We were next door, with full 50amp service, running both a/c units full out all day long, using the microwave, enjoying hot running water, a shower anytime we wished, satellite tv, and computers and phones with Unlimited internet, all while parked on a flat asphalt lengthy site, with the hydraulic levelers keeping us level and stable. The awning also helped with the sun, and the slides being out gave us spacious room.

We definitely we NOT camping.

Now, on the other hand, some 'campers' across the way made a slightly differing impression for those who 'camp'. They threw up an almost 'army' style very large center-pole tent, with roll-up windows. They then threw up a separate 'screened room' type of sitting tent. They then brought out the 'camping grill', which by all measures, was much larger than anything 'grilling' that I'd ever owned even at my own home. Maybe these folks were 'camping', or maybe it's something 'else', but it was sure a contrast in style.

Yes, some things have changed. I see folks bringing in their proud brand-new campers, backing them into a fully concrete site, with much fanfare, setting them up as perfectly 'level' as possible, and proudly bringing out all of the 'camping' fodder that they can possibly bring with them. They then sit outside, next to the camper, under the awning, in the heat, making a campfire, eating outside on the table, and otherwise doing exactly what they could have done in their own driveway, or backyard, without the time, expense, or monthly RV payment.

I think we all have cabin fever, and getting 'out' just is part of the human nature equation, for some reason. I'm starting to think that there is some type of area in our brain that requires us to 'camp' somewhere else to make us feel like we're actually 'doing something special', when our own back yards are void of life, and other than the weekly lawn cutting, don't see much of us at all....what a shame.
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Old 06-29-2020, 12:46 PM   #27
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It's just a bunch of words...
Do you consider "glamping" to be different from "camping" also?
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:01 PM   #28
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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if you are asking specifically, yes, it might be more of the 'resort' RVing that some demand, meaning that they really don't want to go 'camping', in the basic terms, but really only want to go 'somewhere', but with all the same amenities they enjoy in their own home.

But, I don't want to necessarily start a 'definition' war, because many will chime in and give their own impressions of what they think each 'term' means, at least to them. There is no 'real' definition for any of the terms we often hear, it's really just up to each individual.
It's like the difference now between the 'Class C' and 'Class B' type motorhomes - there are some very 'gray' areas between the differences, and even Class C types have 'sub types' within their own kind, such as 'super C', etc.

We don't have to hash out what all the 'terms' used in the camping world, or RVing world, mean, but some will certainly say that there are BIG differences between them. We can all go 'camping', or we can all go 'RVing', but when we're all in the same campground together, it all starts to 'run' together : )
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:12 PM   #29
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Agreed: the activity is more important than what it is called.
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:22 PM   #30
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Interesting thoughts on the camping thing. My first camping was on the Smoky River with grandpa at cow camp near Elkader KS. That was true camping and when you checked your boots for rattle snakes before tugging on them.

We evolved over the years from a cattle trailer to small campers for week end stints and had many friends using tents for many years doing it their way.

I think the big difference for us was the amount of time spent and the style we wanted for the longer trips. A weekend was OK with the tent and small campers but for extended stays and trips the bigger and better rigs came into play.

Starting in the early 60's camping on our own and camping with Grandpa back in the 50's with Kerosene lanterns and camp fires for cooking we had done it all and enjoyed every bit of it.

Glamping now perhaps but have fond memories of the folks TurnerFam noted.

I do think it is interesting how we might do the same thing in the back yard we do down the road a few hundred or thousand miles but it is the journey and feeling of freedom I believe that makes it special no matter what you travel or camp in.

We have more money in the back yard patio and equipment than we did in the first several campers combined but still like to get away and get on the open road.

Lets hope this tradition continues without any restrictions other than those that are self imposed.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
Right on...

I don't think the Inverter knows or cares 'where' you are plugging in, whether on the unit itself, or on one of the circuits that it provides power to...since whenever the Inverter senses 120v Shore Power, it simply goes into 'silent' mode, and sends the power on thru to the circuits, only 'waking up' when the Shore Power is lost(if the Inverter is turned 'ON', of course).

Now, if you want to get creative, and do a little 'electrical' modifications, you 'could' conceivably turn OFF the circuit breaker that provides pass-thru Shore Power to your Inverter, thereby removing the ability for it to 'sense' any 120v power, and therefore, as long as it is turned ON, while be INVERTING to the outlet or the circuits wired to it.
The negative, though, is that the Inverter AND Shore Power will then both be in play, making for some confusion if not thought out correctly.

In my situation, though, this would not allow MY Battery Charger to function, as it is using that same breaker, and 120v power from the Shore.

YOUR Inverter, even if a Magnum brand, may work differently than mine, since the FACTORY decides how they want to wire your RV. You may only have the Fridge with Inverter power, or an additional outlet, and yours may also NOT have an integrated Battery Charger, which changes the equation.
I did some research here. You are correct in that it depends on Magnum brand. I have Magnum CSW 1012 Inverter and CSW - TS15 Transfer Switch. See Diagram

In my case, yes you are correct that if shore power is sensed, it will flow-through downstream devices and ignore power source from House batteries. However, if I were to plug an extension cord to the available open receptacle on my Inverter; then it will be powered via the House batteries regardless of Shore Power or not; as long as I have the Coach in Use mode.

The Switch TS-15 and thus Sensor is actually downstream from the actual Inverter itself. Which means the input to the Switch is hot even though input from Shore is hot as well. Now that I follow even better; I could also trip the coach's breaker as you suggest, but for the fun of what this was intended ... On a very hot day, with only 15amp service available, no idea of what else is connected to it, and no access to reset the breaker to the shore power if it does trip, then I go outside & plug my extension cord into the Inverter, connect my TVs and Outside Kitchen Fridge to the extension cord, and then run one AC and everything else (less Microwave) on Shore power 15 amps service. I would probably put a family moratorium on the microwave and popcorn
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 64-0064-Rev-A-CSW-TS15-Web Page 2.pdf (254.8 KB, 6 views)
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:56 AM   #32
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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sounds like a plan....now, how would your batteries then get charged?
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:40 AM   #33
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sounds like a plan....now, how would your batteries then get charged?
You asking me that question is the equivalent of me just successfully telling Peyton Manning what type of cover 2 defense the other team is running, and then he says now what is my first read if we are in trips right I think I know, but then a sucker is born every minute

I will tell you what I think anyway...

The way I see it is the circuit feeding 120vac to the Magnum xFer Switch is on different breaker than the one feeding 120vac to the Converter. So when I am connected to the 15amp shorepower, both are hot. When Converter is hot and RV Coach is in Use mode the Charging is on. It automatically controls the amperage to the batteries based on calculated voltage of House and Chassis batteries. At the same time since the circuit feeding Inverter is Hot too, it will stop the flow of current from the battery side of the Magnum xFer switch and send current needed to all the downstream devices on Inverter circuit.

The fact that I am pulling some load direct off the battery via the single available AC receptacle on the Magnum Inverter CSW 1012 is independent of whether the charger is on. If Charger is off, I will eventually drain the battery down. But if on, I do not believe the Magnum CSW 1012 Inverter will allow me to draw more than 8.3 amps. I would think (don't know for sure) that my converter could supply up to 8 amps? Oh oh, I think I may know what you may be getting at Let's say that my TV and Fridge is drawing 6 amps, my charger might pull at least 6 amps to try to keep the batteries charged... if so when combined with my AC; it may exceed the 15 amps and trip that breaker!!!! Now I am with no AC in very hot temps. Oh man!!! if I am right you making me shoot myself in the foot
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:35 PM   #34
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You're right Bob. As the pucks age and the connectors and blades get dirty and corroded they present a higher resistance connection which heats up at max loads. The pucks do not have enough surface area to dissipate this heat and tend to melt. The dogbones have additional wire length and surface are to dissipate the heat.

I use CAIG DexIT D5 on connector contacts to clean and remove the oxide buildup. I also spray a parks power post to make sure that the contacts are clean as well. A can does not cost much. Look it up on Amazon. An ounce of prevention....
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:39 PM   #35
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You're the luckiest person

[QUOTE=TurnerFam;240518]there's a lot of discussion of what you 'can' or 'can't' do when you have only access to 'less than' electrical power than what you RV's shore cord is designed for... and there are a lot of failures in understanding that you 'can' actually do a lot more than some may understand, IF it is treated correctly... meaning, mostly operator error in most cases, if it does not work as you expect.

You are obviously a very lucky person. Better go play the lottery, before your luck it runs out.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:05 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
I'm curious about your inverter/charger...
Do you have a model description?
(And link to their website...)
I second that
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:06 AM   #37
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I use CAIG DexIT D5 on connector contacts to clean and remove the oxide buildup. I also spray a parks power post to make sure that the contacts are clean as well. A can does not cost much. Look it up on Amazon. An ounce of prevention....
Thanks!
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:31 AM   #38
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
I'm curious about your inverter/charger...
Do you have a model description?
(And link to their website...)
if you're referring to mine, it's a:

Magnum ME2012 2000w with Battery Charger
and it's remote: ME-RC

from: magnum sensata industries https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/mo...erter-chargers
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Old 07-08-2020, 01:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam View Post
if you're referring to mine, it's a:

Magnum ME2012 2000w with Battery Charger
and it's remote: ME-RC

from: magnum sensata industries https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/mo...erter-chargers
If you're getting away with 2kw on that land yacht you own, we need to sit down and have a long conversation about how. Someday.
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Old 07-08-2020, 02:13 PM   #40
Thor Palazzo 33.3 diesel
 
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State: Georgia
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the Inverter simply powers the outlets in the coach, nothing more - no a/c unit or electric water heating, etc., though since the microwave and fridge are 'plugged in' to outlets, they are certainly part of the equation.

a 2000w inverter equates to 16-17amps at 120volts... and while it's possible to use 'too much' thru the outlets and trip the Inverter's onboard 'fuse breaker', it doesn't happen very often. The inverter can 'handle' that much, but normally you won't be using near that much.
One consideration, though, is that the Inverter also serves as the 'pass thru' of 120v Shore or Generator power to the 'sub-panel' of the outlets that it powers. So, even when you are on external power, and the Inverter is 'silent', that 'fuse breaker' is still in play, as the 120v power pass thru the Inverter, and on to the sub-panel outlets.

This is where is can get a little confusing when you 'lose' power, but are plugged in, but just can't for the life of you figure out 'where' the loss is happening, especially when the Shore breaker has not tripped, your own Main Breaker has not tripped, and no Individual breakers have tripped. Because it happens so infrequently, if ever, it's not the typical 'place' you think of looking, especially when this 'fuse breaker' is outside, in the Inverter bay, and on the bottom side of the Inverter itself, and hard to even tell 'whether' it's tripped or not.

Larger 3000w or 4000w inverters will certainly have more headroom for more flow of power thru the unit, but we've never had too many issues with 'only' 2000w of inverter power, or pass-thru of power. You just have to know where to 'look' when it does. : )
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