Looking at a 24 ft Class C

[Snooker_ML]

Our 2022 Thor Tiburon 24RW sprinter chassis is on the newer Mercedes sprinter chassis that came out in 2020 I think. 3.0 Liter 6 cyl turbo diesel. We get around 14 mpg so far, at almost the speed limit on Interstates (70-75). On the worst on 70mph interstate hills in a headwind it went to 8 mpg. I got it 3 months used, only had one trip on it, and I got a really good deal just before winter up north. We love the size for 2 of us retirees, could handle more for sure though.

One limitation is cargo carrying capacity is tiny so read the fine print on that. You may be comfortable overloading their spec but that is up to you.

I always tended to think the same as "if you have to ask about mpg then an RV is not for you", but Jim you have made a great point - there is a wide variety of people and use cases out there, one cannot assume anything.

[JimC]

COSTS OF OWNERSHIP [at current KS fuel prices]
A 24 ft Sprinter Class B+/C at 15mpg with $4.65/gal diesel costs $0.31 per mile to drive.
My 24 ft Chevy chassis Class C at 8.75mpg with $3.65/gal gassoline costs $0.41 per mile to drive.
My former 31ft Ford V10 Class C at 7.5mpg with $3.65/gal gassoline cost $0.49 per mile to drive.
Then there are the other owner costs like difference in purchase prices, insurance, and epense of maintenance costs. [Granted, there may also be differences in fit, finish, passenger capacity, and load capacity.]
JC

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JimC

COSTS OF OWNERSHIP [at current KS fuel prices]
A 24 ft Sprinter Class B+/C at 15mpg with $4.65/gal diesel costs $0.31 per mile to drive.
My 24 ft Chevy chassis Class C at 8.75mpg with $3.65/gal gassoline costs $0.41 per mile to drive.
....cut.....

That’s not a fair comparison in my opinion because Sprinters that can achieve 15 MPG are usually smaller than Class C that only get 8.75 MPG. And by smaller I mean mostly narrower and lighter; though length and height can be similar.

A diesel will not achieve 70% better MPG compared to modern gas engines when motorhome is otherwise similar.

Even if using your assumed fuel economy estimates, a savings of 10 cents per mile is only $500 per year at 5,000 annual miles, which doesn’t go far towards paying for diesel premium.

Someone I know well just purchased a B+ built on E-450 with 7.3L V8. It is fairly low profile and narrower than typical Class C like yours (just a little wider than most Sprinters). It will be interesting to see what MPG he gets driving it home over 1,000 miles (assuming he keeps speed reasonable). I’m guessing over 10 MPG should be possible.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Pardon my bluntness, but chasing savings in fuel expense from one RV to another for a TYPICAL RV owner is like chasing a fart in the wind. At the end of the day, your calculations will likely be a few hundred bucks - likely FAR less than you'll spend on upgrades, repairs, maintenance, groceries, campground fees, etc. etc.

Fuel costs for RV travel are extremely variable. The published average annual RV mileage is 5,000 miles driven. We did much less than that the last two years COMBINED. However, NEXT year we plan on going above that average. Needless to say, the only accurate calculation for YOU will depend on YOUR mileage. To me... 5,000 miles is a LOT for RV travel, considering a one-way coast to coast trip is just over 3,000 miles.

Based on current gasoline and diesel prices, these would be my calculations for annual fuel cost (Based on average annual RV mileage of 5,000 miles driven):

Current avg. regular gasoline = $4.16
Current avg. diesel = $5.08

My class C (Ford V-10) average mileage last year = 9.5 mpg
Advertised Sprinter diesel class C = 16 - 18 mpg (I'll use 17 mpg)

My anticipated fuel cost for 5,000 miles = $2,189
Sprinter anticipated fuel cost for 5,000 miles = $1,494

Difference of $695

[JimC]

Originally Posted by JimC View Post
COSTS OF OWNERSHIP [at current KS fuel prices]
A 24 ft Sprinter Class B+/C at 15mpg with $4.65/gal diesel costs $0.31 per mile to drive.
My 24 ft Chevy chassis Class C at 8.75mpg with $3.65/gal gassoline costs $0.41 per mile to drive.

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Pardon my bluntness, but chasing savings in fuel expense from one RV to another for a TYPICAL RV owner is like chasing a fart in the wind. At the end of the day, your calculations will likely be a few hundred bucks - likely FAR less than you'll spend on upgrades, repairs, maintenance, groceries, campground fees, etc. etc.

Fuel costs for RV travel are extremely variable. The published average annual RV mileage is 5,000 miles driven. We did much less than that the last two years COMBINED. However, NEXT year we plan on going above that average. Needless to say, the only accurate calculation for YOU will depend on YOUR mileage. To me... 5,000 miles is a LOT for RV travel, considering a one-way coast to coast trip is just over 3,000 miles.

Based on current gasoline and diesel prices, these would be my calculations for annual fuel cost (Based on average annual RV mileage of 5,000 miles driven):

Current avg. regular gasoline = $4.16
Current avg. diesel = $5.08

My class C (Ford V-10) average mileage last year = 9.5 mpg
Advertised Sprinter diesel class C = 16 - 18 mpg (I'll use 17 mpg)

My anticipated fuel cost for 5,000 miles = $2,189
Sprinter anticipated fuel cost for 5,000 miles = $1,494

Difference of $695

Using your figures:
$2189/5000 = ~$0.43/mile
$1494/5000 = ~$0.30/mile

Looks like we fundamentally agree on travel costs differential. We also generally agree as to what should be the priority when purchasing like sized RVs. As we have both said in other posts to this thread, variables such as headwinds, load, use of dash or generator AC, and speed make huge differences on individual trip mileage.
FYI, my average miles driven per year is 7500. Due to the type of travel I do [yearround: many 300 to 500 mile round trips over a weekend] I realize this is 50% above average travel usage.
The unstated point of my earlier post was that even though Sprinters may get twice the mpg average, because of the fuel cost differential, the actual travel cost per mile [no matter how many miles] differential for non-sprinter Class Cs is only about [43/30 = 1.43 or 41/31=1.33] 1.3 to 1.4 times more than a sprinter. This combined with the increased maintenance costs of the Sprinters makes the overall OPERATING expense difference insignificant.
Therefore, the decision for purchase between similar sized RVs should be more heavily weighted upon features: Passenger capacity, storage, trim level, layout, driver comfort, age, condition, and purchase price, rather than operating cost.
Still, it would be nice on my trips to spend a little less at the gas pumps that could be available for discretionary spending.
JC

[Chance]

Cost difference you two mentioned above for diesel versus gas fuel averages about +/- 25%.

Given that is about the advantage diesel holds over modern gas engines in fuel economy (MPG), just call it even and ignore fuel savings per mile (assuming comparable motorhomes).

I agree difference isn’t worth debating gas versus diesel. With either engine type, if you want fuel economy and lower driving costs, choosing smaller RV will make greatest difference.

[Matthew]

The wind thing is real between a B and C.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Matthew

The wind thing is real between a B and C.Attachment 36818

So isn't the size inside & out, storage, weight, tank sizes, carrying/towing capacities... wind resistance is only part of the equation.

I look at it this way: A class B has better fuel mileage, but a penalty in inside room and other conveniences; A class C has the inside room and conveniences, but with a fuel penalty.

Pick your poison.

[bry899]

Beginning on January 1, 2022, the standard mileage rates for the use of a car (also vans, pickups or panel trucks) will be:

58.5 cents per mile driven for business use, up 2.5 cents from the rate for 2021,.....

Originally Posted by JimC

Originally Posted by JimC View Post
COSTS OF OWNERSHIP [at current KS fuel prices]
A 24 ft Sprinter Class B+/C at 15mpg with $4.65/gal diesel costs $0.31 per mile to drive.
My 24 ft Chevy chassis Class C at 8.75mpg with $3.65/gal gassoline costs $0.41 per mile to drive.



Using your figures:
$2189/5000 = ~$0.43/mile
$1494/5000 = ~$0.30/mile

Looks like we fundamentally agree on travel costs differential. We also generally agree as to what should be the priority when purchasing like sized RVs. As we have both said in other posts to this thread, variables such as headwinds, load, use of dash or generator AC, and speed make huge differences on individual trip mileage.
FYI, my average miles driven per year is 7500. Due to the type of travel I do [yearround: many 300 to 500 mile round trips over a weekend] I realize this is 50% above average travel usage.
The unstated point of my earlier post was that even though Sprinters may get twice the mpg average, because of the fuel cost differential, the actual travel cost per mile [no matter how many miles] differential for non-sprinter Class Cs is only about [43/30 = 1.43 or 41/31=1.33] 1.3 to 1.4 times more than a sprinter. This combined with the increased maintenance costs of the Sprinters makes the overall OPERATING expense difference insignificant.
Therefore, the decision for purchase between similar sized RVs should be more heavily weighted upon features: Passenger capacity, storage, trim level, layout, driver comfort, age, condition, and purchase price, rather than operating cost.
Still, it would be nice on my trips to spend a little less at the gas pumps that could be available for discretionary spending.
JC

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

So isn't the size inside & out, storage, weight, tank sizes, carrying/towing capacities... wind resistance is only part of the equation.

I look at it this way: A class B has better fuel mileage, but a penalty in inside room and other conveniences; A class C has the inside room and conveniences, but with a fuel penalty.

Pick your poison.

For those who can’t decide between a B van and Class C, there are Class B+. Some have nearly as much room as Class C except for overcab bed.

The ones built on E-450 have just as much or greater cargo carrying capacity, and due to narrower width and lower profile, they have significantly lower aerodynamic drag.

Just stating there is a middle ground, though major “volume” manufacturers don’t offer many choices in that RV class.

There are various manufacturers who build lower-profile B+ on Ford E-Series chassis. Below is one example of a B+ motorhome that should get better MPG on the highway than most Class C.
.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Chance

For those who can’t decide between a B van and Class C, there are Class B+. Some have nearly as much room as Class C except for overcab bed.

The ones built on E-450 have just as much or greater cargo carrying capacity, and due to narrower width and lower profile, they have significantly lower aerodynamic drag.

Just stating there is a middle ground, though major “volume” manufacturers don’t offer many choices in that RV class.

There are various manufacturers who build lower-profile B+ on Ford E-Series chassis. Below is one example of a B+ motorhome that should get better MPG on the highway than most Class C.
.

The Phoenix Cruiser seems to be a well built MH. I believe they are family owned and operated manufacturing operation.

Technically there is no such thing as a "class B+"... it's still a motorhome built on the same cutaway chassis with modifications for aerodynamics, weight and scale. True... it sort of falls between a B and C in size of box, but the chassis is the basis for the class.

Here again with a "B+" you have trade-offs. You are giving up size of living space in hopes of better fuel economy. The Phoenix is a very attractive coach - I like the "custom" look. However, price one against a typical mass produced Thor class C. There is quite a price premium for that customization.

If your goal is fuel economy, in the end analysis you have to consider MANY things. How long will it take to recoup the up-front price premium through fuel savings? What exactly IS the real-world fuel mileage difference? Browsing different forums shows that in real world use there's very little, if any. It seems that people are buying the Phoenix Cruiser for lots of reasons... but fuel economy isn't high on the list. And no doubt... they ARE a popular coach.

Speaking of trade-offs... many well equipped class B units (#vanlife) are WELL over $200k - some prices encroach on a nicely equipped class A. Fuel economy may well be a consideration, among other things, but do the math. For your travel style, how long will it take for YOU to recoup the difference between price premium of a class B over a class C, and fuel savings?

Which brings me back to my original idea that chasing fuel economy may be an illusion. If I were looking for a new coach now, I would obviously start within a budget for purchase price. Second would be layout/amenities - the "nice" factor. Next would be utility, storage, towing, etc. In MY experience based on our annual travel miles, fuel economy falls dead last. We would have to sacrifice FAR too much to make a difference of - what, 3 to 4 mpg??

And as I explained, to get that fuel economy - it's a shell game of shifting "phantom savings" to another spot on the balance sheet.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

The Phoenix Cruiser seems to be a well built MH. I believe they are family owned and operated manufacturing operation.

......cut......

I used the Phoenix Cruiser as an example because it’s about a foot lower and 6 inches narrower than typical Class C like Thor Four Winds pictured above parked next to a ProMaster van camper, yet has 14,500-pound GVWR and 22,000-pound GCWR.

Buyers wanting a smaller B+ motorhome already have various choices built on Sprinter or Transit. ProMaster B+ existed for a few years but I don’t know of any today. Thor has the Gemini and Compass which are much roomier than a van, yet get better fuel economy compared to traditional Class C. Still, they can’t tow much and have limited OCCC.

With few exceptions like the BT-Cruiser from Gulf Stream, there are not many B+ being built by major manufacturers like Thor, Winnebago, and Coachmen on Ford E-350 or E-450. Coachmen temporarily discontinued the Concord while redesigning, but have not disclosed information on new model yet.

What’s missing IMO is a fuel-efficient B+ motorhome similar in size to Winnebago Ekko but built on Ford E-350; provided price is kept in common E-350 Class C range below $100k.

[Uschi293]

We have a 2020 quantum sprinter KM24. 21,000 miles avg 13.1 mpg diesel. We added equalizer leveling system, removed the stabilizer and upgraded the entire suspension system with bilstein shocks and springs …drives like a car and seems to be able to handle the weight fine. We are overweight …All sprinters will be overweight. Had our work done at a sprinter speciality shop.

[Fore Winds 22E]

The two you mentioned are really the same units made by Thor. I have a 2020 Four Winds 22E and get 8.5 to 11 miles a gallon depending on where and how fast I drive. Most of my driving has been relatively flat roads with speed limits between 55 and 60 so the 11mpg, Highway with hills and 65 and 70mph speeds drops to the 8 to 9 range. The 22E is mounted on a Chevy chasse.

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Uschi293

We have a 2020 quantum sprinter KM24. 21,000 miles avg 13.1 mpg diesel. We added equalizer leveling system, removed the stabilizer and upgraded the entire suspension system with bilstein shocks and springs …drives like a car and seems to be able to handle the weight fine. We are overweight …All sprinters will be overweight. Had our work done at a sprinter speciality shop.

Problem by me is diesel is one dollar more a gallon, it kind of kills the mileage thing

[Redsand]

Just thought I'd chime in on mileages for motor homes. I know this dates me a bit but I remember our 72' GMC 3/4 Ton Sierra Grande with a stock 350 ci v8 and our TEC 11' cabover self contained unit getting a strong 8 mpg. A few times we got up to 10 but very rarely. My point is if you're gonna carry your house on wheels with water, gas and of course beer 10 is the number. That is up hill down hill straight winding and dirt roads. Of course back then 80 cents a gallon was steep for a two week vacation. Now I stare at $6 plus a gal here in crazy land CA and if I should take out a loan to fill up the beast.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Maybe we should pool our cash and buy a barge of "cheap" gasoline from Europe...

[JimC]

Originally Posted by Fore Winds 22E

The two you mentioned are really the same units made by Thor. I have a 2020 Four Winds 22E and get 8.5 to 11 miles a gallon depending on where and how fast I drive. Most of my driving has been relatively flat roads with speed limits between 55 and 60 so the 11mpg, Highway with hills and 65 and 70mph speeds drops to the 8 to 9 range. The 22E is mounted on a Chevy chasse.

Our Thor Daybreak 22GOC Chevy chassis, is almost identical to your 22E. You get a lot better gas mileage than I do, but our driving patterns are very different. Much of my travel [to see grandkids college swim meets] is over 4-Lane or Turnpike. Speed limits are 75mph. I usually drive between 67-72mph. I am usually loaded with 4-6 adults and two 100+LB dogs. KS is known for constant sometimes high winds. Often I fight headwinds [+40mph]both ways on a trip. Trips through the Flint Hills with winds often mean running in 5th and sometimes 4th [out of 6] gear. My mileage ranges from 8 to 9.75. If I drove 60mph over flat ground with no headwind, I might also get 10+mpg.
JC

[2whlzstam]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Maybe we should pool our cash and buy a barge of "cheap" gasoline from Europe...

That ain't gonna' work.


https://fortune.com/2022/05/18/gas-p...record-europe/