Space Wars: SpaceX says 5G expansion would make Starlink ‘unusable’

[dkoldman]

The clash between SpaceX and Dish Network and other 5G Telecom companies is on.

The 5G technology is simpler, more convenient and easier to use for most consumers. But again, if this is true contention, the Satellite may be like the need for toll roads; more money to do the same thing. I never thought people would flock to pay for what use to be free radio, but Satellite radio proved that theory wrong. I never use the toll roads unless ZERO alternatives. I pay taxes; thus feel entitled to use roads that cost trillions of dollars.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/23/tech/...scn/index.html

I use a T Mobile 5g Solution; and for me it is all that. I worry that this Space War (dogfight) between SpaceX & Dish / 5G may end with impact that prevents all 5G companies from expanding or some new increased costs. Nothing like a business model that moves to block your competitors from competing with with different technology.

In the end state, why can't SpaceX get their own 5G solution to compete in the 5G Space?

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

The clash between SpaceX and Dish Network and other 5G Telecom companies is on.

The 5G technology is simpler, more convenient and easier to use for most consumers. But again, if this is true contention, the Satellite may be like the need for toll roads; more money to do the same thing. I never thought people would flock to pay for what use to be free radio but Satellite radio proved that theory wrong I never use the toll roads unless ZERO alternatives. I pay taxes; thus feel entitled to use roads that cost trillions of dollars.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/23/tech/...scn/index.html

I use a T Mobile 5g Solution; and for me it is all that. I worry that this Space War (dogfight) between SpaceX & Dish / 5G may end with impact that prevents all 5G companies from expanding or some new increased costs. Nothing like a business model that moves to block your competitors from competing with with different technology.

In the end state, why can't SpaceX get their own 5G solution to compete in the 5G Space?

I bet Dish is losing money to Starlink and working with government to slow Starlink down.

Let the STAR wars begin!

Dish had roughly 8.2 million wireless subscribers as of May and hopes to dramatically expand that business. Public filings revealed earlier this year that SpaceX has more than 400,000 Starlink customers worldwide.

[Judge]

I read that article a few days ago. I'm not too worried at this point about Starlink but the Satellite TV and Cable companies are all in a bind because everyone is going streaming. That is why DISH is looking to get into the 5G space now.

I dropped cable two years ago and went with YouTube TV and never looked back. Now that internet bandwidth is plentiful (cable, cellular, WiFi and Starlink), streaming is becoming the preferred way to watch content.

Cable and Satellite TV companies had a chance to get a head to the curve and they missed the boat. They were fat, dumb and happy with the money they were making but I said 10 years ago if I ran a cable TV company I would start offering TV al a carte so people could just order the channels they want and pay for them. I knew that companies like NetFlix, Amazon and Google were going to change the game..... and they have.

Now Cable and Satellite TV companies have been left in the dust scrambling in the dust to stay alive. That's why Comcast started offering Xfinity Mobile Phone Service a few years ago to offset the lost cable subscribers.

I'm pulling for Starlink because they can deliver Internet without running wires. I thought it was ridiculous that our Government passed a bill that included millions for Internet Infrastructure so they could waist our tax payer dollars to run wires to remote parts of the country..... and take 20 years to do it...... when the private sector (Starlink) will have wireless Internet available almost everywhere in the country within the next few years.

[Scubawise]

Here comes the "Judge".
And youtubetv unlimited recording and download all recording offline is a game changer

[ducksface]

Does 5g still require an antenna/power source/whatever every few hundred feet or have they surmounted that?

If they haven't fixed that I don't see any of central California or the Serengeti or Australia doing the 5g thing.

And
Upon reading that dish response, they've conceded.
They've all but admitted their info is wrong.

What They've said is:
'Back to the drawing board. We have no support for, nor can we find support for, our findings.
We hired an outside firm to find findings we needed found to substantiate our unfounded findings.'
'By saying we are reviewing our findings what we're really saying is we hope to regroup and next time, an undisclosed time, we'll try another gambit because this one was so thoroughly and easily discredited'.

5g is going dinosaur pretty soon.

And
You don't really really think those lasers on star link are really really about faster intersattellite communication in a VACCUUM...do you?

And
CNN?
The article is a placed and paid for advertisement. It is nothing else.
Perhaps last week the writer, no not writer, COMPILER, of the article covered:
Cookie dough ice-cream. Does it cause tapeworm?

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Does 5g still require an antenna every few hundred feet or have they surmounted that?

If they haven't fixed that I don't see any of central California or the Serengeti or Australia doing the 5g thing.

Duck nailed it. 5G doesn't "compete" with Starlink... because they're designed for unique use cases. Starlink has the advantage of literally worldwide reach using LEO satellites. Downside is the signal is blocked by trees and obstacles. As more users create network congestion, time will tell if the speeds can persist. We all know what happens when you clog a pipe with more flow than it can handle.

DISH (unfortunately) uses generally outdated technology - the results are well known. Their only defense at this point is begging and hoping.

5G... a completely different animal. Utilizing mmWave, it has a realistic range of about 1,500 feet (think WiFi). It's essentially the opposite of Starlink... 5G will never be touted in rural areas - with the exception of heavily traveled highways/freeways. But going off the beaten path will leave you with nothing.

The main uses of 5G technology is public areas in cities, shopping malls, urban areas and skyscrapers. If you park your RV in areas any distance away from the above mentioned... you cannot physically receive a mmWave signal. You cannot defy physics. Now... cellular companies are beginning to deploy beamed signals, but again - special use cases like in shopping malls, etc. where the signal is directed from point A to point B... not unidirectional. Bottom line... if you're currently receiving a 5G signal, GUARANTEED you are within sight of the transmitter/receiver. Think of the logistics of wide area geographic coverage... but that's not in the advertising.

Do your homework... decide WHERE you enjoy camping, where you drive/live and make a decision based on your use case... NOT from hype. 5G has it's place in the scheme of things, and so does Starlink. And DISH? we'll see how long it can hold on.

[sportcoupe]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Does 5g still require an antenna/power source/whatever every few hundred feet or have they surmounted that?

I dislike that they use the term 5G loosely.

There are three versions of 5G. Each are vastly different.

5G Millimeter Wave (aka Ultra-Wideband)
Frequency ranges from 24 to 47Ghz
Range from tower: Line of sight, up to 0.5 sq mile
Speed: 600Mbs and up

5G C-Band (brand new)
Frequency ranges from 3.7 to 3.98GHz
Range from tower: 0.5 to 6.0 sq miles
Speed: 100 to 500Mbs

5G Low-Band (Nationwide 5G)
Frequency ranges from 600Mhz to 1GHz
Range from tower: hundreds of sq miles
Speed: 30 to 50Mbs

[Lt Keefer]

I find it ironic that SpaceX just launched a rocket with a 5G satellite.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

I find it ironic that SpaceX just launched a rocket with a 5G satellite.

I can't hold myself from thinking that, since the current administration hates Tesla, Elon is in some kind of "fight the devil" mode, doing and saying everything he can to throw a wrench at the administration "direction" (or lack of )

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

The article is a placed and paid for advertisement. It is nothing else.
Perhaps last week the writer, no not writer, COMPILER, of the article covered:
Cookie dough ice-cream. Does it cause tapeworm?

I don't believe it is true the article is paid advertisement? If so, who would have paid or be promoting that article?

I believe the articles below it all are all sponsored articles. The PAID partner content appears to be properly disclosed as far as I can tell.

Where is story on Cookie dough ice cream? Me like it is favorite of mine

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Duck nailed it. 5G doesn't "compete" with Starlink... because they're designed for unique use cases. Starlink has the advantage of literally worldwide reach using LEO satellites. Downside is the signal is blocked by trees and obstacles. As more users create network congestion, time will tell if the speeds can persist. We all know what happens when you clog a pipe with more flow than it can handle.

DISH (unfortunately) uses generally outdated technology - the results are well known. Their only defense at this point is begging and hoping.

5G... a completely different animal. Utilizing mmWave, it has a realistic range of about 1,500 feet (think WiFi). It's essentially the opposite of Starlink... 5G will never be touted in rural areas - with the exception of heavily traveled highways/freeways. But going off the beaten path will leave you with nothing.

The main uses of 5G technology is public areas in cities, shopping malls, urban areas and skyscrapers. If you park your RV in areas any distance away from the above mentioned... you cannot physically receive a mmWave signal. You cannot defy physics. Now... cellular companies are beginning to deploy beamed signals, but again - special use cases like in shopping malls, etc. where the signal is directed from point A to point B... not unidirectional. Bottom line... if you're currently receiving a 5G signal, GUARANTEED you are within sight of the transmitter/receiver. Think of the logistics of wide area geographic coverage... but that's not in the advertising.

Do your homework... decide WHERE you enjoy camping, where you drive/live and make a decision based on your use case... NOT from hype. 5G has it's place in the scheme of things, and so does Starlink. And DISH? we'll see how long it can hold on.

The point of the article is that SpaceX says 5G expansion would make Starlink ‘unusable. Is that true or not?

They are accusing Dish & other 5G companies of misleading and/or interference. So the question is whether Dish with withdraw and other 5G telecoms follow suit?

It seemed newsworthy to me because a lot of talk among RV owners about values of Starlink and T -Mobile. Some actually have both. But regardless it a chicken fight between the companies at the moment.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Judge

I read that article a few days ago. I'm not too worried at this point about Starlink but the Satellite TV and Cable companies are all in a bind because everyone is going streaming. That is why DISH is looking to get into the 5G space now.

I dropped cable two years ago and went with YouTube TV and never looked back. Now that internet bandwidth is plentiful (cable, cellular, WiFi and Starlink), streaming is becoming the preferred way to watch content.

Cable and Satellite TV companies had a chance to get a head to the curve and they missed the boat. They were fat, dumb and happy with the money they were making but I said 10 years ago if I ran a cable TV company I would start offering TV al a carte so people could just order the channels they want and pay for them. I knew that companies like NetFlix, Amazon and Google were going to change the game..... and they have.

Now Cable and Satellite TV companies have been left in the dust scrambling in the dust to stay alive. That's why Comcast started offering Xfinity Mobile Phone Service a few years ago to offset the lost cable subscribers.

I'm pulling for Starlink because they can deliver Internet without running wires. I thought it was ridiculous that our Government passed a bill that included millions for Internet Infrastructure so they could waist our tax payer dollars to run wires to remote parts of the country..... and take 20 years to do it...... when the private sector (Starlink) will have wireless Internet available almost everywhere in the country within the next few years.

I saw the article a few days ag too, it took me a few days to finish reading to make the thread

I think Government and Waste are synonymous terms in eyes of the beholder, has always been that way and will always be that way.

I just wish to understand why Starlink seems to be worried about 5G? Nothing I have read has cleared it for me unless the article is without facts nor merit?

[ducksface]

Starlink is only answering a false claim.
They had no interest, and now they do.
The choice is to not only answer but sue dish into oblivion for submitting a false report naming star link.

[Chateau_Nomad]

How could 5G ever expand into the vastness of sparsely populated areas... when 4G with a MUCH larger coverage footprint hasn't even made a dent? I mean seriously, I can drive 30 miles through semi-rural areas in Ohio and encounter dead spots with ZERO cell signal.

Starlink and tower based comms are complementary. Musk has even stated this in his ramblings. Regardless of mainstream ads, tower based comms will NEVER be ubiquitous, and that's where Starlink is intended to fill the gaps. While Starlink has coverage cells overlapping major metro areas, why bother? That's not Starlink's target audience.

Since this is an RV forum, I'm mainly focusing on phone/internet while away from home in a traveling scenario. For someone traveling in an RV wanting nearly seamless internet and mobile phone coverage (WiFi calling with Starlink) from nearly ANYWHERE in the contiguous 50 states - having both a cell plan and Starlink is currently the best option.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

How could 5G ever expand into the vastness of sparsely populated areas... when 4G with a MUCH larger coverage footprint hasn't even made a dent? I mean seriously, I can drive 30 miles through semi-rural areas in Ohio and encounter dead spots with ZERO cell signal.

Starlink and tower based comms are complementary. Musk has even stated this in his ramblings. Regardless of mainstream ads, tower based comms will NEVER be ubiquitous, and that's where Starlink is intended to fill the gaps. While Starlink has coverage cells overlapping major metro areas, why bother? That's not Starlink's target audience.

Since this is an RV forum, I'm mainly focusing on phone/internet while away from home in a traveling scenario. For someone traveling in an RV wanting nearly seamless internet and mobile phone coverage (WiFi calling with Starlink) from nearly ANYWHERE in the contiguous 50 states - having both a cell plan and Starlink is currently the best option.

Your 1st question begs to understand what Starlink's dispute is? I am reading what responses say, but for the most part they seem to ignore the article is about Starlink's concern with what Dish or 5G telecoms are going to do? If I follow the expanded 5G in some areas will negatively impact the Starlink service.

Your latter point is subjective on which is best. I have to say it again Quality is fitness for use. Some look at cost, some look at setup simplicity, availability for where they may travel or where their RV is.

I think most tend to forget that the T Mobile Home Internet service that a few are using is NOT intended for ANY mobile situation. It is that some (myself included) are taking advantage of the technology. I don't need "ANYWHERE in the contiguous 50 states" just were I may temporarily go. So far in my 23,000 mile, I can't recall being anywhere without 5G service, and if it was not available, I didn't know it.

I found the article intriguing. Don't think anyone has said anything written in article is untrue? It just reads to me as if Starlink is putting companies that are growing 5G in their place because they see some of the 5G services negatively impacting their satellite.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Your 1st question begs to understand what Starlink's dispute is? I am reading what responses say, but for the most part they seem to ignore the article is about Starlink's concern with what Dish or 5G telecoms are going to do? If I follow the expanded 5G in some areas will negatively impact the Starlink service.

Your latter point is subjective on which is best. I have to say it again Quality is fitness for use. Some look at cost, some look at setup simplicity, availability for where they may travel or where their RV is.

I think most tend to forget that the T Mobile Home Internet service that a few are using is NOT intended for ANY mobile situation. It is that some (myself included) are taking advantage of the technology. I don't need "ANYWHERE in the contiguous 50 states" just were I may temporarily go. So far in my 23,000 mile, I can't recall being anywhere without 5G service, and if it was not available, I didn't know it.

I found the article intriguing. Don't think anyone has said anything written in article is untrue? It just reads to me as if Starlink is putting companies that are growing 5G in their place because they see some of the 5G services negatively impacting their satellite.

Same here my friend over 23 states cell service and t mobile home $120. Unlimited

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

Same here my friend over 23 states cell service and t mobile home $120. Unlimited

We agree on what t mobile home does.

What this article is about or is saying that SpaceX says 5G expansion would make Starlink ‘unusable’ for most Americans. That is either true or a lie? I am not the Judge nor do I claim to have the answer.

Until the actual language in article is disputed, it just raises my eyebrow. I had no idea that 5G could impact Satellite service in any way. Makes you wonder (if true) why the Satellite service would not also interfere with 5G?

But back to your point, and after me spending 3 years with Wifi CampPro and Netgear Extender trying to find any public SSID I could; the ability to put my home KVN21 Black Box in my RV temporarily with ZERO config or setup is an absolute gem. I think if the day comes, where I don't have 5G service, I will be good, I will likely be someplace that I don't need or expect to have that type of service. I use to travel to Mexico with no phone and never needed it. I am trying to think, but I doubt if I have ever had my RV more than 100 miles away from some Interstate?

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Your 1st question begs to understand what Starlink's dispute is? I am reading what responses say, but for the most part they seem to ignore the article is about Starlink's concern with what Dish or 5G telecoms are going to do? If I follow the expanded 5G in some areas will negatively impact the Starlink service.

Your latter point is subjective on which is best. I have to say it again Quality is fitness for use. Some look at cost, some look at setup simplicity, availability for where they may travel or where their RV is.

I think most tend to forget that the T Mobile Home Internet service that a few are using is NOT intended for ANY mobile situation. It is that some (myself included) are taking advantage of the technology. I don't need "ANYWHERE in the contiguous 50 states" just were I may temporarily go. So far in my 23,000 mile, I can't recall being anywhere without 5G service, and if it was not available, I didn't know it.

I found the article intriguing. Don't think anyone has said anything written in article is untrue? It just reads to me as if Starlink is putting companies that are growing 5G in their place because they see some of the 5G services negatively impacting their satellite.

We're not comparing apples to apples. Starlink vs land based telecoms as a "competition" must be imagined by a pseudo journalist begging for ad click through. "Best" when referring to land based telecoms is DEFINITELY subjective. Best is what works for YOU in your situation... which could be T-Mobile 5G at home or on the freeway... OR Starlink when parked in your RV in the middle of nowhere with no cell signal for 100 miles. Apples to oranges...

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

We're not comparing apples to apples. Starlink vs land based telecoms as a "competition" must be imagined by a pseudo journalist begging for ad click through. "Best" when referring to land based telecoms is DEFINITELY subjective. Best is what works for YOU in your situation... which could be T-Mobile 5G at home or on the freeway... OR Starlink when parked in your RV in the middle of nowhere with no cell signal for 100 miles. Apples to oranges...

I am think we both agree with that post or statement. It is choice, or as I state Fitness for use.

The question or topic is about the article; which has no bearing on which technology a consumer may prefer or need? The article is saying that SpaceX says 5G expansion would make Starlink ‘unusable’ for most Americans. That statement caught my attention. I don't know if it is true or not, but apparently it is view held by Starlink. The converse of the statement says that Dish and 5G Telecom may not be allowed to expand in some areas.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I am think we both agree with that post or statement. It is choice, or as I state Fitness for use.

The question or topic is about the article; which has no bearing on which technology a consumer may prefer or need? The article is saying that SpaceX says 5G expansion would make Starlink ‘unusable’ for most Americans. That statement caught my attention. I don't know if it is true or not, but apparently it is view held by Starlink. The converse of the statement says that Dish and 5G Telecom may not be allowed to expand in some areas.

It would not surprise me if satellite cable companies are lobbying our government to challenge starlink so they move in that space and acquire more customers..