Trashy Campers

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Evening

The best way to make sure change will happen is to teach it in school , our kids are great listeners when we show them how important this issue is.

Never happen: they're too busy filling the kids' heads with ideas designed to divide us.

[ducksface]

Maybe
Some people think turning a paperplate loose into the wind is a kind of tribute.
Why not...people release 1,000 balloons as a tribute and that's ok. No need to think about where they land...it. It.its a triiibuuutttte,


We let people litter under certain conditions and They're so stupid they apply it to all situations.

Boil it down to a syrup, and I can tie a balloon release mentality directly to a beer can full of cigarette butt tossed out of a car window mentality.

A dog should have to crap INTO a paper bag, not on the ground and picked up with a plastic bag.
You all know this.

Some draw lines elsewhere and justify them.

[16ACE27]

Remember when you were profusely thanked by the Walmart greater for bringing in a cart from the parking lot? And most people were happy to do it.
Remember when Walmart advertised all American made products?

Now it's the semi-stocked China store with customers that think nothing of dropping their kid's dirty diaper on the ground just outside of their car.

[ducksface]

I have a new take on cart replacement.
I used to never fail and often wrangled other carts along my way.
Someone explained to me how this certain store had a slow minded person they employed solely to wrangle carts. If put my cart back, slow-mind is out some hours this week.
I put my cart out of the way, but I don't corral them anymore.
And now when offered help at a box store I take it. I never did take the help before. 60 bags of concrete 'nah, I got it'. I now take the offer of help lest someone get some of their hours cut.
I don't like either action but it's not always about what I like.
If they make us check our own groceries, imagine what hours they'll cut on those people lesser than a cashier

[Travelin' Texans]

Originally Posted by Evening

Education works for this issue. Patience and education will work for this issue of a clean environment. The USFS has sponsered the LNT program in many wilderness areas.
Leave No Trace is a simple way to teach outdoors enthousiasts on the basic actions to take while out of their own home. From fly fishing and hunting to camping and hiking and also RV Sports in the Wild : everyone can and should put their hands to work and "Leave No Trace" wherever they go to recreate. Another one is "Pack in / Pack out" initiative to Carry all you need for your activities, and also pack out, everything you carry, and why not, most garbage you find on your way.
I have been using this in the wild for most of my life. https://lnt.org/

The best way to make sure change will happen is to teach it in school , our kids are great listeners when we show them how important this issue is.

NO! It shouldn't be left up to the schools!!!! It should be taught at home by their parents setting good examples. By the time they've started school, 6+/- years old, they should already know to pick up after themselves whether at home or elsewhere.
IMHO most the millennials, & now their children, were brought with NO discipline at home or at school for risk of it being called abuse so they don't understand about consequences for their actions.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I swear, our dogs have better hygiene than many humans. I've seen camping areas that prove some people were NEVER taught basic cleanliness principles. GROSS!! This is WHY we rarely if ever use campground showers. I love my private privvy!

My God agree have you seem the bathrooms?

[RVwife]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

NO! It shouldn't be left up to the schools!!!! It should be taught at home by their parents setting good examples. By the time they've started school, 6+/- years old, they should already know to pick up after themselves whether at home or elsewhere.
IMHO most the millennials, & now their children, were brought with NO discipline at home or at school for risk of it being called abuse so they don't understand about consequences for their actions.

AMEN, AMEN! The parents should be the first line of teaching proper and considerate behavior, but the schools should also be a back up for this. If children see and hear it all the way around, they will understand and fall in line. It's when they get mixed messages from all around them that they have no idea what is expected. Why are we surprised?

My father always said "parenting is not a popularity contest." By golly he was right and we grew up knowing what the expectations were. I tried to do the same raising my kids (and used dad's mantra many times).

Now my millennial children are expecting their first child and, no surprise, they were concerned about not having them grow up as little heathens. They've already asked for advice and my answer has been, raise them as you were raised. I know you didn't always like the boundaries or expectations, but the consequences were always clear and fair. You understood it, your kids will too.

Yes the parents are the first line in raising decent human beginnings. I'm with you all the way on that.

[Evening]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

NO! It shouldn't be left up to the schools!!!! It should be taught at home by their parents setting good examples. By the time they've started school, 6+/- years old, they should already know to pick up after themselves whether at home or elsewhere.
IMHO most the millennials, & now their children, were brought with NO discipline at home or at school for risk of it being called abuse so they don't understand about consequences for their actions.

No, not left to schools. But certainly supported by the school system in every state. You are absolutely right : it starts at HOME. My post was for education "to all outdoor recreation". That would include adults and children. If (LNT) Leave No Trace was a part of everyone's education - at home and at school - our wilderness areas would be better off.

Happy trails !

[ducksface]

Funny stuff.
Everyone bitches about millennials but it's our generation who raised them or grandparented them.

Not a soul here will admit to having a basement dweller or a barrista kid who has $200,000 invested in a masters degree in theater arts.

Unconditional love is the stupidest thing ever said out loud as an excuse.

And
Do you all think, for the slightest moment that recycling and anti-litter and earth hugs aren't rammed down every kids throat in every classroom, every kids show, every church group...every day since about 1960? Generationally hammered and hammered and hammered.

I feel littering might be related to those who do 50mph on a two lane 65mph road and refuse to pull over(some of you here have admitted to such things)
They've never been in charge of a single thing their entire life, but They're leading that parade of 30 cars behind them. Being in charge feels great.

'The man is keepin' me down! Let the man pick up this soda can'.

And
Isn't it riteously wrong to say across-the-board things about a specific group?
It's the very definition of bigot.
Congratulations Mr Bunker.

[m1noel]

"Parent-it's a verb"-Gerry Brooks

[Lt Keefer]

Yes, Americans have become poor neighbors. They litter, they are inconsiderate drivers and they buy poorly assembled motor homes and accept it as normal.

[Chateau_Nomad]

But mommy... I'm getting tired of walking in circles!

Shut up kid... or I'll nail your other foot to the floor!

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Never happen: they're too busy filling the kids' heads with ideas designed to divide us.

You are right

Self esteem and accountability is tought at home

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Remember when you were profusely thanked by the Walmart greater for bringing in a cart from the parking lot? And most people were happy to do it.

Remember when Walmart advertised all American made products?



Now it's the semi-stocked China store with customers that think nothing of dropping their kid's dirty diaper on the ground just outside of their car.

At one of our local state parks the diaper deal is beyond control

Just crazy

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I have a new take on cart replacement.
I used to never fail and often wrangled other carts along my way.
Someone explained to me how this certain store had a slow minded person they employed solely to wrangle carts. If put my cart back, slow-mind is out some hours this week.
I put my cart out of the way, but I don't corral them anymore.
And now when offered help at a box store I take it. I never did take the help before. 60 bags of concrete 'nah, I got it'. I now take the offer of help lest someone get some of their hours cut.
I don't like either action but it's not always about what I like.
If they make us check our own groceries, imagine what hours they'll cut on those people lesser than a cashier

Aldi stores have the cart deal down with the quarter deposit

Very effective currently

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

NO! It shouldn't be left up to the schools!!!! It should be taught at home by their parents setting good examples. By the time they've started school, 6+/- years old, they should already know to pick up after themselves whether at home or elsewhere.
IMHO most the millennials, & now their children, were brought with NO discipline at home or at school for risk of it being called abuse so they don't understand about consequences for their actions.

Right on!

[lwmcguire]

So we all agree our society is in a degradation status currently

We all need to do as much as we can to change the direction were headed

And it isnt by giving away money or goods

Tough Love was applied as a kid and it worked with our kids

The right way usually isn't the easy way at first

[atreis]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Funny stuff.
Everyone bitches about millennials but it's our generation who raised them or grandparented them.
(etc...)

This.

And of course, no one EVER complained about "kids these days" (and their parents) in the 60s ...

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by atreis

This.

And of course, no one EVER complained about "kids these days" (and their parents) in the 60s ...

Yeah... like my dad NEVER complained about my long hair...

Same story, different day/year

Meet the new boss... same as the old boss.

I think everyone agrees what the problems are... the disagreement is about the cause and cure.

[Bob Nodine]

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

Socrates