WARNING -- Virginia is discriminating against handicap folks

[Muggs]

LOL Bob!!!!! I am just sitting on back porch in typical Florida summer heat in October.

[Bob Denman]

Feel free to use it...

[RVMichael]

Originally Posted by Muggs

Track officials consider them a compact golf cart.

My understanding is that you get to choose.

..."People with disabilities have the right to choose whatever mobility device best suits their needs."...

The "covered entity" can determine if your choice is safe based on 5 pre-determined assessment factors. These are the items where the lawyers make their money.

1. Size, weight, dimensions, and speed
2. Volume of pedestrians
3. Facility's design and operational characteristics
4. Legitimate safety requirements (such as limiting speed)
5. Whether the use creates a substantial risk to the environment

I know people are saying about being a dead horse, etc. and they are certainly welcome to not read, move on, and ignore.

However, I am learning more and more everyday about OPDMDs and their uses, especially having to put my thoughts into words helps clarify what is needed.

In fact there is a rapidly growing Facebook page dedicated to Crickets because there's a lot of folks who find them incredibly versatile, especially in helping mobility handicapped. However, there it's preaching to the choir and I don't have to think about formulating my opinions, etc. like folks on here.

My thinking is that this forum is pretty wide open (as long as it's clean and not purposely confrontational, e.g. trolling.) If an admin tells me it's time to shut up, then I guess I don't have any choice. However, it seems fair, honest, courteous exchanges about RV's and their accoutrements is what this forum is about.

[Muggs]

This forum does a great job of keeping discussions reasonable.

I was really curious as to how the Cricket style unit is percieved. At some point in time we will need to offset walking limitations. I got lucky and won a drag race recently, wife (over 70) covered over 5 miles going to starting line every round. I do not know how much longer we can do it. Some of the larger tracks are even further.

I will you luck getting to use your unit. For us a full size just adds too much weight. The compact unit may be ticket for us because it is light enough for me to load by myself.

Safe and happy travels.

[RVMichael]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

This might simply be a case of Virginia wanting to keep Golf Carts off of these trails...

.. without fully realizing how that the Cricket is not your typical Golf Cart...

It's been a while since I've looked at their specifications; but I believe that they are just about 32 inches wide, and weigh just a touch over 300 pounds.
The typical Golf Cart weighs about 700 pounds (depending upon it's configuration), and is 47" or 48" wide...


I've got no dog in this fight on either side; but it seems as if more information could be used by everyone.

Here they are side by side. Quite a bit smaller and it feels it. One is compromising quite a bit by using a Cricket.

[RVMichael]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

If it weren't for the majority of the entitled abusing it, it would make sense. Everyday, I see well-fit soccer moms jumping from their SUVs in their way too tight long underwear, trotting into the stores after parking in handicap spaces. I see people with their smelly dogs walking into McDonald's, or sitting them up at tables in restaurants just because they were able to obtain a "Service Dog" permit...by lying about the circumstances. It's the less than 1% that, when given an inch they take 5 miles, ruin every real need for assistance in this country....and the "officials" are too afraid to challenge legitimacy.

I used to think like that too. However, not all the handicaps are visible. My wife can walk slowly maybe a quarter of a mile with some pain. However it's cumulative throughout the day in that the more she walks the greater the pain grows. Yes indeed the placard is abused, but it sure has helped my wife (that and the medical marijuana which can be started on a new thread...)

[RVMichael]

Originally Posted by Muggs

This forum does a great job of keeping discussions reasonable.

I was really curious as to how the Cricket style unit is percieved. At some point in time we will need to offset walking limitations. I got lucky and won a drag race recently, wife (over 70) covered over 5 miles going to starting line every round. I do not know how much longer we can do it. Some of the larger tracks are even further.

I will you luck getting to use your unit. For us a full size just adds too much weight. The compact unit may be ticket for us because it is light enough for me to load by myself.

Safe and happy travels.

Just in case here's a link to the Facebook page for all things Crickets...Facebook Page for Crickets

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by RVMichael

Here they are side by side. Quite a bit smaller and it feels it. One is compromising quite a bit by using a Cricket.

I've got the "Tweener": the Kangacruz...
While my mobility is pretty limited: I'd never try to make my limitations become an issue for those around me.
There's lots of other great places that I can get to!
(It's kind of like hunting deer from the front porch: instead of at the top of a distant mountain ridge... )

[RVMichael]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

Michael, I re-read your first post and something dawned on me. You say that the personnel at Claytor Lake would not let your wife drive her Cricket down the 'path' that RVs use to get to their sites. That statement is misleading. The 'path' that RVs use is actually called a road and mobility devices are usually not allowed on roads. I have been to Claytor Lake SP, nice place by the way, great friendly staff last summer, and while the roads may look like paths, they are roads not footpaths. Maybe instead of forcing your lifestyle on the taxpayers of Virginia you should accept the limitations you have and make appropriate adjustments. Side note, I say this as a disabled veteran that is married to another disabled veteran. The wife and I have been disabled for over 20 years and while we live an 'active' lifestyle there are things we can't do but we would never think to force others to do them for us.

I reread your post and glad you have been to Claytor Lake. We are not forcing our lifestyles on anybody and the changes we want do not cost taxpayers practically anything (signs, maybe?). We do not want special trails made or sidewalks or anythings, we simply want to be able to quietly, gently, calmly, amble about the park with the pedestrians and bicyclists.

If my mother (and many many others) hadn't stood of for the mentally handicapped in the 50's, we would still have folks locked away in institutions because they were mistakes. No, I will speak up now (and hopefully others will) and free the physically handicapped from some rules that have been demonstrated in many, many locations to be burdensome and discriminatory. I don't do this often (in fact this is the first time in my very middle of the road life) I am going to take a stand, as I'm sorry, it just ain't right and to quote an 80's movie, "Right is right!" Hint -- Helen Slater was the primary star and protagonist.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RVMichael

......cut....

The "covered entity" can determine if your choice is safe based on 5 pre-determined assessment factors. These are the items where the lawyers make their money.

1. Size, weight, dimensions, and speed
2. Volume of pedestrians
3. Facility's design and operational characteristics
4. Legitimate safety requirements (such as limiting speed)
5. Whether the use creates a substantial risk to the environment

......cut....

Thanks, this addresses my biggest unknown in how they determine what’s appropriate for each circumstance/condition. I figured there had to be differences but didn’t know the criteria. Thanks again.

[CaptnJohn]

I’m beginning to think he would like to have wife ran over by a Prevost for a big check. 😜

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

I’m beginning to think he would like to have wife ran over by a Prevost for a big check. 😜

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1571768542

[cullingby9]

Maybe in 2020 we’ll vote in one of these socialist/communists and we’ll all become California and everyone one can do anything they want...except speak freely, protect your personal property, or keep your hard earned money. Obviously the law was made for the greater good and I’m sure somewhat thought out. Sounds like you are intent on getting your way though so press on.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by cullingby9

Maybe in 2020 we’ll vote in one of these socialist/communists and we’ll all become California and everyone one can do anything they want...except speak freely, protect your personal property, or keep your hard earned money. Obviously the law was made for the greater good and I’m sure somewhat thought out. Sounds like you are intent on getting your way though so press on.

If that happens everyone on this forum can kiss the rigs goodbye.

[Bob Denman]

I hope that we're not straying into the arena of Political Discussions...

[cullingby9]

If this attachment is anything like what you are complaining about it’s not exactly your average scooter/chair that a handicap person uses. I too can qualify for a plaque. As someone else said about being a dinosaur...I just haven’t got to it. But I surely wouldn’t think I could travel and use this to get around using the guise of handicap from state to state or park to park. That’s what folks in my parents gated golf community run around in. If I were walking my dogs or letting my kids ride a bike on a path and they had to contend with this thing I would think someone was breaking the law. If it’s on the park roads and not registered with proper lights and safety equipment you are out of luck with vehicle code. Remember if it’s legal for one it’s legal for all and I could not imagine these things everywhere. I’m not being political just tired of everything being stretched.

[CaptnJohn]

I have both placards and disabled veteran plates. I rarely take a disabled parking space. If the walk is long I take my cane. Rarely is there no place to sit for a minute if needed. Just think if every disabled person decided they were special enough to get a special entitlement just because! Most of us do not complain and whine like children. Be an adult, adapt and overcome.

[RVMichael]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

I’m beginning to think he would like to have wife ran over by a Prevost for a big check. 😜

Really...I'm doing my best to just lay out the facts and you make insinuations like that...borrowing the words of my grandson, "not nice!"

[Bob Denman]

I'm pretty sure that he was just pullin' your leg a little bit...
Relax: you've turned this topic every which way... the silliness just had to come out eventually!

[RVMichael]

Originally Posted by cullingby9

If this attachment is anything like what you are complaining about it’s not exactly your average scooter/chair that a handicap person uses. I too can qualify for a plaque. As someone else said about being a dinosaur...I just haven’t got to it. But I surely wouldn’t think I could travel and use this to get around using the guise of handicap from state to state or park to park. That’s what folks in my parents gated golf community run around in. If I were walking my dogs or letting my kids ride a bike on a path and they had to contend with this thing I would think someone was breaking the law. If it’s on the park roads and not registered with proper lights and safety equipment you are out of luck with vehicle code. Remember if it’s legal for one it’s legal for all and I could not imagine these things everywhere. I’m not being political just tired of everything being stretched.


Attachment 21011

People have been using them in many many states in state parks without incident. Virginia's law says no motorized wheelchairs at any parks unless on specially designed trails. For example, a soldier who lost both legs in Iraq wanted to go to a state park in Virginia, he could only do so if he pushed himself manually if he wanted to get around the park no matter the size of the device.