2020 Magnitude SV34 Slide Motor Replacement

[elbenson]

I knew there had to be an engineer somewhere fed up with the garbage slide systems. Every time I looked at that set screw design it just screamed lazy engineer or bean counter not letting someone fix the problem. This Vroom slide system looks well thought out and address the vast majority of the failure issues seen on these system. Best of luck getting a robust solution and looking forward hearing about the install.

It really is an absolute shame that ~2k is not allowing these RV manufactures get to a robust solution. It is like the warrantee department is not talking with the design department to lower the TOTAL cost for the company.

It is like the same solution that was just published to help protect against the DEF head de-rating to keep folks on the road until parts were available. RV folks are very, very motivated to find ways to stay on the road.

Eric



He had bought a Tiffin Class A with the LCI Schwintek system and the same things happened to him on two slides during a trip to Alaska. After talking with Tiffin and LCI, they told him this is the way the system is and they have no other options. That prompted him to design a better system.[/QUOTE]

[bandi]

Looking forward to the results of the Tucson Vroom visit @judge

[Judge]

Well.... today's the day. We got down to Tucson yesterday after spending the weekend in Phoenix. I'll be taking the coach over to Vroom Engineering & Manufacturing.

I feel really good that these guys may have come up with a slide mechanism that is better, more robust and more reliable than the LCI Schwintek slide system.

I'm glad I made the decision to do it now and not wait because when I retracted the slide in yesterday, the rear motor was really starting to twist and make noise again. I think my temporary fix has reached its end..... but it allowed us to finish the last few weeks of our trip successfully.

These guys have been in business a long time doing some pretty complex things. They should be able to design and fabricate just about anything. I will keep you posted of how things go.

Here is a description from the parent company website.


Vroom Engineering & Manufacturing

ENGINEERING | MACHINE SHOP | FABRICATION | MECHANICAL

Since the mid-1970’s, Vroom Engineering & Manufacturing, Inc., has been designing and delivering solutions to a wide variety of industries including mining, astronomical, food processing, and textile processing, to name just a few.

Having in-house Engineering, Fabrication, Machining and Mechanical Assembly departments as well as other specialty and technical services, enables Vroom Engineering to deliver a finished turnkey solution anywhere in the world.

[Judge]

One other comment before the Schwintek Slide System hits the scrap heap.....

When my rear motor originally failed, I blamed it on a screw in the slide box that was not installed properly. It was installed at an angle and not sunk flush so that it was sticking out about 1/4".

I thought the screw was sticking out enough that it eventually caused damage to the rop of the motor. The screw was defintely hitting the top of the motor.... but it only happened when the slide was retrating. During retract the motor would tilt towards the inside of the sliode box.

After coming up with a temporary fix to try and secure the rear motor, I think there has been too much movement of the motor since day one..... especially when the slide is retracting and becomes fully closed.

I think it was MTCamper who posted that he had a similar problem and it turned out the top of his slide was closed before the bottom of the slide was completely flush. This was being caused by the lower gear being off one tooth in the lower track from the factory.

I haven't taken any measurements but this may be the root cause of my issues as well..... besides the Schwintek System just not being robist enough to handle large and heavy slides.

I'm just happy someone posted the information about the Vroom Slide System. I'll be happy to pay to have a slide mechanism installed that was carefully engineered to do the job.... and also have a way to close the slide if a motor fails.

[Judge]

Just got back from dropping the coach off at Vroom. So far….. I’m very impressed.

They showed me all of their components and how they work together. I’m not an Engineer but it sure looks like a very well-designed and well-manufactured system with high quality components.

Their new motor mount that is adpated to the standard LCI slide motor is a thing of beauty in and of itself. Their gears and bearings look very robust along with their track.

They just aren’t doing a rip-and-replace…. they are checking all of the aspects of the slide and rollers. They took a quick look at the rollers and noticed the rear roller was not even touching.

I may have a little paint work to do because the system will go from 3 tracks to 2 tracks so depending whether the slide box was painted before or after the tracks were installed. My tracks are black and so is my slide box.

They also will be replacing the wipe seals with white ones instead of black. I told them at this point I’m more concerned with having a robust and reliable slide mechanism thsn cosmetics.

They think they should have it done by Wednesday so I am even more excited now to see and test the final product.

More to follow…..

[16ACE27]

All of us large slide owners are on pins and needles to see how this works out for you. Ask them if they'd consider a "Forum Discount".

[MJC62]

$2500 over the life of the motorhome for peace of mind, a no brainer.
On our last one month trip I was counting the amount of times the kitchen slide needed to be extended and retracted trying to minimize it's use.
As the midwest is the center of RV manufacturing it sure would be nice to see their company expand into this area.
Following your new slide system install VERY CLOSELY!! Tucson would be a good place for a visit in February or March!

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

Just got back from dropping the coach off at Vroom. So far….. I’m very impressed.

They showed me all of their components and how they work together. I’m not an Engineer but it sure looks like a very well-designed and well-manufactured system with high quality components.

Their new motor mount that is adpated to the standard LCI slide motor is a thing of beauty in and of itself. Their gears and bearings look very robust along with their track.

They just aren’t doing a rip-and-replace…. they are checking all of the aspects of the slide and rollers. They took a quick look at the rollers and noticed the rear roller was not even touching.

I may have a little paint work to do because the system will go from 3 tracks to 2 tracks so depending whether the slide box was painted before or after the tracks were installed. My tracks are black and so is my slide box.

They also will be replacing the wipe seals with white ones instead of black. I told them at this point I’m more concerned with having a robust and reliable slide mechanism thsn cosmetics.

They think they should have it done by Wednesday so I am even more excited now to see and test the final product.

More to follow…..

If the third track which I presume is the "middle one" isn't interfering with anything, why not leave it in place as a cosmetic issue? Save maybe having holes and paint issue.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by chunker21

If the third track which I presume is the "middle one" isn't interfering with anything, why not leave it in place as a cosmetic issue? Save maybe having holes and paint issue.

I didn't do any measurements this morning but just looking at the Vroom track, it looks wider than the standard Schwintek track. The two upper tracks on the 3 Trax system are almost touching each other so that would be why the second of the tracks needs to be removed.

I am betting the slide box has been painted underneath the track already. If it is, then I can just install screws with EternaBond Sealant into the holes and be done with it.

If not, I can get the paint matched and I would possibly try to paint it myself. I did some paint and body work many, many, many years ago. Being a flat, vertical surface, I don't think it would be too hard to put a decent coat on it.

As long as the Vroom system is the next best thing to sliced bread, I can deal with fixing any cosmetic issues.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Judge

And when it rains it freakin' poors.....

DW was just making lunch and it looks like the Convection / Microwave Oven just died. Didn't trip breaker and inital troubleshooting pointing to it died.

And I can't even blame Thor for this one..... damn thing last just under two years of part-time use.

*EDIT*

I unplugged it for 15-minutes and let it cool down. Plugged it back in and it powered up. Might have just got too hot.... god knows there is not much venitaltion around it.

If you cover your food with press and seal the microwave heat sensor will be ok

[Judge]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

All of us large slide owners are on pins and needles to see how this works out for you. Ask them if they'd consider a "Forum Discount".

I told him this morning that if his new system works as advertised and my reviews support that claim, he'll have a line of 6 - 10 coaches waiting to get done..... if not more!

I told I would even consider going around and selling his system to dealers if the manufacturers don't want to spend $1000 - $1500 more than they are paying LCI today for a better slide mechanism.

Dealers have to be tired of doing the same repairs.... over and over again. A dealer can tell owners..... "We can fix it with the factory parts for X dollars and it might happend again or we can make it better than new for Y dollars and you won't ever have to fix it again."

A guy I was talking to at the KOA in Mesa / Apache Junction last weekend has a Palazzo that actually had 4 Schwintek tracks and the slide was having issues. It took a Mobile RV Tech 8 weeks between getting parts and multiple attempts at fixing the slide to the tune of $1800.


What is really cool about is design is how to deal with a slide motor failure. This is something Vrooom can't control. Vroom is making all of the mechanical parts here in the USA but they can't control the motor quality control.

While the motor is bolted to the top of thr Vroom slide mechanism with 4 bolts.... instead of the Schwintek single crappy setscrew.... a 3/4" wrench will allow you to loosen a nut at the bottom of the slide meachanism to disengage the motor.... and without getting on a ladder like you need to do with the setscrew.

Then if it is a small slide, you can push in the slide with two people. If it is a big slide like mine, you can use a 7/16" to turn the shaft and manually retract the slide. You would need a person on each side turning the nut on each shaft so the slide goes in evenly.

To me.... engineering a way to get a slide in with a failed motor, controller or switch is HUGE!!!

[m1noel]

I haven't got my mind around the emergency retract yet. It seems that the bolt head that needs to be turned would still be inside the wall? How do you get the shaft down and turn the bolt?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by m1noel

I haven't got my mind around the emergency retract yet. It seems that the bolt head that needs to be turned would still be inside the wall? How do you get the shaft down and turn the bolt?

The mechanism is going to behind the wipe-seal so I am assuming you will pull the wipe-seal back to access it or remove a few of the screws holding the wipe seal in place. Once you get the slide a few inches from closed, you should be able to push it in manually.

One stupid thing Thor does is use rivets to mount the wipe-seal instead of screws. The wipe-seal will eventually need to be replaces or you may need access to the slide mechanism to inspect it so they should use screws.

I watched a YouTube Video a while back where an RV Tech was really letting RV Manufacturers have it about using rivets for the wipe-seal.

He said "Most manufacturers uses screws but some of you make it difficult for inspection, maintenance and repair by using rivets..... you know who you are.... start using screws!"

[wrapped]

Just had the rear motor on full wall slide pop-up and I couldn't get it to drop all the way back down,so borrowed a floor jack and 3ft 2x4 put under next to last metal plate from rear of slide, jack up take weight off unplugged rear motor at controller and 2 of us pushed in while bumping in front motor. I was shocked it wasn't bad and once reached half way I was pushing by myself just stopped to move jack. This slide is about 18ft long an contains, stack washer/dryer,residential fridge, stove sink fireplace tv, bedroom closet 6 drawers another tv and a pantry full of canned goods. After we moved to next campground I checked all of the motors in the other 2 slides I realized the problem motor was seated the same as the others evidently the 4 alignment pins don't fully disappear and face of motors don't sit flush on top of the carrier block the bushing sticks up about 1/16 of an inch. Anyway I no longer fear manual closing of slide, as I was jacking up the slide I still thought it was going to be impossible. Being full-time I'm very interested in how the vroom slide mechanism works out.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by wrapped

Just had the rear motor on full wall slide pop-up and I couldn't get it to drop all the way back down,so borrowed a floor jack and 3ft 2x4 put under next to last metal plate from rear of slide, jack up take weight off unplugged rear motor at controller and 2 of us pushed in while bumping in front motor. I was shocked it wasn't bad and once reached half way I was pushing by myself just stopped to move jack. This slide is about 18ft long an contains, stack washer/dryer,residential fridge, stove sink fireplace tv, bedroom closet 6 drawers another tv and a pantry full of canned goods. After we moved to next campground I checked all of the motors in the other 2 slides I realized the problem motor was seated the same as the others evidently the 4 alignment pins don't fully disappear and face of motors don't sit flush on top of the carrier block the bushing sticks up about 1/16 of an inch. Anyway I no longer fear manual closing of slide, as I was jacking up the slide I still thought it was going to be impossible. Being full-time I'm very interested in how the vroom slide mechanism works out.

I have a slide that is 23' long and probably weighs 1200lbs or more fully loaded. The motor mount design of the LCI / Schwintek slide mechanism is a joke when it comes to dealing with that much weight.

First, a single 1/8" diameter retaining screw to try and keep the motor from twisting and lifting under a high-torque load is ridiculous.

Then four allen screws being used to align and keep the motor from twisting in the upper bearing block is also a poor design because it assumes the single retraining screw will do its job.

Vroom retrofits the LCI slde motor with a better gear reduction system and a four bolt mounting system so there is no way the motor will ever lift and turn under load.

The next weakness is the deisgn of the V-roller and the amount of weight it is expected to support and a realtively small spur gear when it comes to full wall slides.

The components I saw with the Vroom system are far more robust than these LCI components.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it operates once installed.

[Judge]

Just spoke with Brian Vroom..... they are just finishing up putting the silicon sealant around the seals. He said they didn't run into any problems and installing their slide system went as expected. This was a big relieve to hear!

He said I could pick it up in an hour or in the morning. They close at 3:00 so I didn't want anyone to hang around late and me and the DW are planning to go out for dinner at El Corral for some prime rib or steak so I told him I would come by in the morning at 7:30AM and check it out and pick her up.

That will give me a good idea of when will hit the road back east so I can start planning our route and stops.

I'll let you all know how the slide looks and works once I get a chance....

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Judge

Just spoke with Brian Vroom..... they are just finishing up putting the silicon sealant around the seals. He said they didn't run into any problems and installing their slide system went as expected. This was a big relieve to hear!

He said I could pick it up in an hour or in the morning. They close at 3:00 so I didn't want anyone to hang around late and me and the DW are planning to go out for dinner at El Corral for some prime rib or steak so I told him I would come by in the morning at 7:30AM and check it out and pick her up.

That will give me a good idea of when will hit the road back east so I can start planning our route and stops.

I'll let you all know how the slide looks and works once I get a chance....

Pictures and video would be great! (beat Bob to it).

[Scubawise]

Congratulations

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

Just spoke with Brian Vroom..... they are just finishing up putting the silicon sealant around the seals. He said they didn't run into any problems and installing their slide system went as expected. This was a big relieve to hear!

He said I could pick it up in an hour or in the morning. They close at 3:00 so I didn't want anyone to hang around late and me and the DW are planning to go out for dinner at El Corral for some prime rib or steak so I told him I would come by in the morning at 7:30AM and check it out and pick her up.

That will give me a good idea of when will hit the road back east so I can start planning our route and stops.

I'll let you all know how the slide looks and works once I get a chance....

When you dropped it off what other vehicles were in for similar repair? How many can they do in a day in their shop?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Pictures and video would be great! (beat Bob to it).

I will but.... the pictures, video and detailed review probably won't happen until I get back to Pittsburgh this weekend.