Axis/Vegas Window Leak (maybe?)

[48in366]

Hello All -

I've been lurking around the forums for just over a year now. I bought my 2015 Axis 25.1 in December of that year, then took off on a 1 year, 48 state road trip. I'd hoped to update on here when any issues popped up, but there is a LOT to see around this country and I was moving so fast I had little time for anything else. This forum has proved to be an invaluable resource when problems happen, and I hope to repay some of the benefits I've reaped over the year. I'm doing some writeups/videos on different experiences I've had, and will be sure to post links here in case someone finds them useful.

Overall, I absolutely love the coach. The engine has been reliable, the size is great for getting in to almost every national/state/county park, campground, city, attraction, or parking lot I want to visit, it drives nicely, and the floorplan is perfect for the way I use it. Yes, I've had plenty of issues (weight distribution, door latch shearing off ("locking" me in), slide out leak, loose chassis battery cables, valve stem gouging the tyre, camera connectivity, furnace shorting out, fridge door breaking off...), but, honestly, I still wouldn't trade it for any other unit I've seen. It could be a case of "you get what you pay for" (this coach was, by a long ways, the most affordable I looked at), but from what I've seen in the different service shops along the way, if really doesn't matter what you pay for a motorhome, it's going to have the same basic problems.

And one of those problems is leaky windows. After 4 months down in Florida, I was starting to prep the coach to go back on the road, and I noticed some bubbles under the passenger side window. When I was at the factory for service back in October, another Axis was in for warranty work. They'd noticed a quarter-sized bubble in the wallpaper, and added that to the list of things to check. They ended up having the entire wall torn apart and rebuilt, and the reason was a lack of sealant along the top of the window. Not old sealant, not cracked sealant, just a total lack of it. They suggested I have a look at mine (good plan!), and I've been keeping an eye on it since. After discovering the bubbles, I rechecked - seems the lovely winter sunshine down here had dried it out a bit and there were a few small holes for the water to leak through. We haven't had much rain at all, though, so I was a bit surprised at what I found.

The main reason for this post - has anyone seen window leak water damage on their coach? If so, does it look as extensive as this? I called up Thor's service line (which has been a fantastic resource while on the road - and I've never had to wait for them to pick up) before I tore into it, and they said to just take it to any local shop/dealer for a fix. I tried everywhere I could down here, and they're all operating about 6-8 weeks out. Since I want to hit the road as soon as possible, I followed some tips from a local tech I talked to - pull the paper, let it dry, hit it with a fungicide paint, then re-paper. I stopped at the "let it dry", as this seems a little excessive to be just a window leak.

I'm trying to contact some Thor folks for suggestions, but thought this was a pretty good place to try, too. Anyone know if stain patterns like this indicate anything more than a window leak. I found the exact same problem on the driver's side (despite no bubbles showing), and the wood over there is actually in worse shape.

Side note - if anyone wants any pictures of the dash interior, just let me know! I wanted to get as much of the wallpaper off as possible, and figured I may as well keep disassembling! (I'm also planning on replacing the carpet up there, hence the lack of seats).

Thanks so much!
Sara

[JamieGeek]

I'm planning on checking my drivers side this weekend (I think I'll do it by disassembling the armrest and look under there--even if I remove some wallpaper it will be covered when I reassemble the armrest--at least that is the current plan).

Having our unit in storage I discovered the passenger side leak when the water in the wall froze and swelled up the wall (this is the reason for my factory service visit back in February--they rebuilt my wall below that window as well).

Where did you find the holes/source of the leak? The top of the window? (they sealed that up at our visit)

[harleyhal]

Had the same problem on the drivers side on my 2016 25.2. Silver dollar size bubbles. Fortunetly the factory covered the repair after some heated discussion as to how many hours of labor they would pay for. Finally approved 6 hours

[Daveurbanski]

On my spring list was caulking every window and the main door
I have a 2016 25.2 I was shocked when I removed metal flashing around door there was at least 1/4 inch to 1 inch gap no insulation or cauck, found same issue around most windows but smaller gaps, sealed all with best silicone product I could find. after tackling inside, did the same to seal everything on outside of RV

[harleyhal]

Dave. What silicon product did u use?

[lazinskm]

I used GE silicon for a TINY crack that was leaking thru my slide onto my floor while washing it. Seems to be working well, but have read about using Dicor on other sites. Some people don't like the silicone for caulking.

https://www.amazon.com/Dicor-501LSW-...keywords=dicor


I am also going to use this to seal my taillights- any thoughts from anybody?

https://www.amazon.com/Dicor-BT-1834...NHBWA9A2MJZRM9

[48in366]

Well, the Thor Customer Service Rep I contacted got back super quick. I've had great luck with all aspects of their service departments - RVs are going to have issues, no matter what, so that's a big plus. He says that my photos show standard window leak damage, and suggests letting it dry out, reasealing the top, testing for leaks, applying the fungicidal paint/sealant and then covering it up. Debating on what to use...maybe the same material as the flooring I choose. If the wood is damaged beyond this repair, however, I think changing it out may be a little out of my league. Wouldn't you need to take apart the entire front end to do that?

Jamie - If this is just a window leak, the water was getting in through some very small holes in the top exterior sealant. It looks more like not-quite-as-thick areas, as opposed to actual holes, but when I poured water on as a test some of it disappeared into the unknown. I've seen very little rain over the last 16 months, so either a little water does a whole LOT of damage, or this has been an issue for the entire time (plus the year it sat on the lot). I'm going to crawl underneath (or contort however I can) to get a better look up the wheel wells. I can feel the bottom of the plywood, so I may need to take the same action as your tech and do some sealing up in there. On your driver's side, behind the console is a great spot to check, although I had an odd dry patch right there. They are easy to remove - just take out the cupholder and you should have access to the screws holding it to the wall (if your assembly line tech used a similar method as mine, of course). Your interior leak on the passenger side is a bit confusing. I removed the frame on that side to take a peek at the construction (easy process, but you have to gain access to the frame first, which involves taking out all the surround for the bed mechanisms up at the top - picture attached). I'd check all the weep holes along the base of the frame first, just in case they are spilling over into the cab. Could you see where the water was entering - top or bottom of the window?

I'll post any updates as I progress (or regress, whatever the case may be).

[upnyfolks]

Wellll...now I'm concerned, we had several maps in a basket between the passenger seat and the wall and found that the bottoms of them were wet after a heavy rain storm. I couldn't find any sign of water anywhere around the window or wall so just assumed the window wasn't closed all the way.
Looks like some de-construction is in order even though the coach is brand new.

[48in366]

Originally Posted by upnyfolks

Wellll...now I'm concerned, we had several maps in a basket between the passenger seat and the wall and found that the bottoms of them were wet after a heavy rain storm. I couldn't find any sign of water anywhere around the window or wall so just assumed the window wasn't closed all the way.
Looks like some de-construction is in order even though the coach is brand new.

I know my pictures look a little dramatic, but don't go digging too deeply! I had absolutely no indication of any water inside the coach. None. No moisture, no dampness, no smell, no mildew - nothing. And I was in it almost every day for a year, with a dog, so I was climbing around under the dash and passenger seat more than most (cleaning/vacuuming/retrieving lost toys/treats). The first and only indication on the passenger side was the cluster of bubbles that recently appeared on the lower third of the wall. The vinyl wall covering acted as a perfect barrier, keeping all moisture out of the interior. I've even pulled up the carpet (I think they switched out the floor covering after my model year) to have a look, and there is no indication of any moisture damage to the subfloor of the cab area.

If you had damp papers in the cab, it could very well have been an open window. Or perhaps a leak that is getting in through the frame, but not into the wall itself? I'm not saying don't check the walls, just hoping it's a much easier fix for you! An simple/quick way to do an initial investigation would be to remove one or two of the screws in the window frame on the vertical side away from the windscreen. A few of mine (towards the top) showed evidence of rust. Ditto with the screws that hold the armrest/console/drinkholder to the wall. Good luck!

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by 48in366

Jamie - If this is just a window leak, the water was getting in through some very small holes in the top exterior sealant. It looks more like not-quite-as-thick areas, as opposed to actual holes, but when I poured water on as a test some of it disappeared into the unknown. I've seen very little rain over the last 16 months, so either a little water does a whole LOT of damage, or this has been an issue for the entire time (plus the year it sat on the lot). I'm going to crawl underneath (or contort however I can) to get a better look up the wheel wells. I can feel the bottom of the plywood, so I may need to take the same action as your tech and do some sealing up in there. On your driver's side, behind the console is a great spot to check, although I had an odd dry patch right there. They are easy to remove - just take out the cupholder and you should have access to the screws holding it to the wall (if your assembly line tech used a similar method as mine, of course). Your interior leak on the passenger side is a bit confusing. I removed the frame on that side to take a peek at the construction (easy process, but you have to gain access to the frame first, which involves taking out all the surround for the bed mechanisms up at the top - picture attached). I'd check all the weep holes along the base of the frame first, just in case they are spilling over into the cab. Could you see where the water was entering - top or bottom of the window?

For the current leak the water squirts out (it really does ! LOL) on the bottom of the window frame. I watched it during a recent downpour--I think this doesn't happen that much because during the downpour I noticed that its parked such that most of the water on the roof runs along the awning and down next to the front door (yeah right on top of the passenger window).

When you say "top exterior sealant" you mean what you can see on the outside on the top of the window? (Crawling on the roof looking down onto the gap between the window and the side of the coach?) I looked the other day and could see where the Thor tech had run sealant along that gap.

I'm guessing for my current leak the water just found a path that the tech missed so I should be able to just plug up the missed points and I'm good!

[48in366]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

For the current leak the water squirts out (it really does ! LOL) on the bottom of the window frame. I watched it during a recent downpour--I think this doesn't happen that much because during the downpour I noticed that its parked such that most of the water on the roof runs along the awning and down next to the front door (yeah right on top of the passenger window).

When you say "top exterior sealant" you mean what you can see on the outside on the top of the window? (Crawling on the roof looking down onto the gap between the window and the side of the coach?) I looked the other day and could see where the Thor tech had run sealant along that gap.

I'm guessing for my current leak the water just found a path that the tech missed so I should be able to just plug up the missed points and I'm good!

That's the sealant I'm talking about (although I personally prefer the "climb a ladder" method to see it - anything to keep me off the edges of the roof!) If your current leak has water coming in rather violently through the bottom of the frame, I'd check all the weep holes around the base. If water was getting in through the top sealant, I think it would trickle/race/pour down the frame and end up running off the sides into the wall, as opposed to finding it's way around the bottom of the window. Is it coming out straight downwards towards the floor, or in a vertical fashion - more up and out from the metal surround that's screwed in? Or just directly under the window glass, bypassing the frame altogether? There are a number of lips involved in all parts of the framework - just trying to see if I can help narrow it down any!

[JamieGeek]

It appears just below the trim ring hugging the wall in a stream.

[48in366]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

It appears just below the trim ring hugging the wall in a stream.

Hmm...that seems a little odd. I'll try to get some pictures of the area tomorrow, since I have abundant access at the moment

[JamieGeek]

Ok got the RV home today and quickly took it apart (we're expecting rain tonight and I wanted to get this done before that starts).

I removed all the screws from the bottom of the window surround--didn't want to disassemble the bunk--enough so I could separate the frame from the wall.

I had a hunch: I poured some water into the channels just outside the sliding window. When enough water filled that up--especially in the channel the sliding window moves in water came pouring out of that screw hole in the picture you see above.

My hypothesis is that when they drive those screws into the frame they don't really pay attention and some can pierce the channel causing a leak. I took some silicone and filled up that screw hole and most of the channel between the window and the outer frame then reassembled everything. I'll find out this weekend if it fixes it.

I also removed some screws from the drivers side window: They were all shiny and clean. Then I took apart the driver's armrest. The screws holding that in were dirty but not rusty and the wall looked fine (crossing fingers). In addition, I found a bunch of "spare parts" under there .

[rvfigs]

I'm definitely concerned about this issue with leaky windows. I haven't really checked carefully because my rig is kept in an enclosed garage.

I need to inspect more...

I use this caulking:

https://www.amazon.com/Geocel-28100V...Pro+Flex+clear

[Bruce]

I had a passenger side leak. Very, very small trickle of water.

Thor repaired it last spring when I dropped my unit off to have the cracked windscreen replaced.

Bruce

[HighMobious]

There is no suck thing as a small leak when it comes to RV's. They will haunt you for years if not taken care of properly. Water has a way of finding a way into the smallest of holes. Your doing the right thing by thoroughly exploring any issue ASAP.

[JamieGeek]

Update: The rain is stubbornly holding off today (probably a good thing) which allowed me to do my usual spring wash (roof too!). I hosed down the passenger window multiple times with no water showing up on the inside of the coach. Calling this one good and fixed.

Now lets go camping!

[jimbo21793]

What I don't see in this thread is what year your model was built.
I believe they made improvements for 2016-17?

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by jimbo21793

What I don't see in this thread is what year your model was built.
I believe they made improvements for 2016-17?

My unit is a 2014--the first model year of the Axis/Vegas units and I believe 48in366's unit is a 2015.

The improvements made in 2016 and 2017 involve the very front window (its shorter) although when doing that they also could have improved the side windows as well (I don't think they look any different than ours and given Thor's reputation for quality being job 1,000,000 I still would be suspicious of any model year Axis/Vegas unit).