Battery charging question - Page 2

JamieGeek · 01-04-2017, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

Some Axis/Vegas use a BCC (battery control center) which apparently provides the same capability, but I do not know if that is a better or easy replacement.

Our Axis has the BCC in it. All of its circuitry and solenoids are in the outside compartment under the driver's seat. On first pass it doesn't look like something easily upgradable (it could be but I haven't dug that far into its operation to find out).

bevedfelker · 01-04-2017, 07:27 PM

Jamie: Here is a schematic and information sheet I found on the BCC. It's operation is similar to how the BIRD/Trombetta function. It just uses an internal interconnect relay found in the BCC to act like the Trombetta does.

It says:

"Normal charging of the chassis and coach batteries as a set depends upon which disconnect is closed. For example, if the coach is underway and the chassis battery disconnect is engaged, when the chassis battery charges to 13.2 vdc from the engine alternator, the interconnect relay will pull in after a 15 sec delay. If the engine were to be turned off, when the chassis/coach battery set discharges to 12.6 vdc, the interconnect relay disengages after the 15 sec delay. When the coach is on shore power and the coach battery disconnect is engaged, the converter will charge the coach battery until it reaches 13.2 vdc. at which time the interconnect relay will close after the delay. As before, should shore power be disconnected, the coach chassis battery set will discharge to 12.6 vdc, and the interconnect relay will release the delay. The interconnect relay requires 0.5 adc for its coil whenever it is engaged"

gmc · 01-04-2017, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justjohn57

Great thread with lots of information here. However, I am an ACE owner and not sure it would apply. I was told at the PDI there is nothing that will charge the chassis battery from the house system, and that putting an exterior trickle charger on the chassis battery would be a good idea during the long winter storage. I'd appreciate knowing if anyone knows for sure so I don't hurt anything if I hook up an external charger.

As Oneilkeys said - hard to picture why the Ace would be different...
Have you done anything to verify the behavior on the Ace??

Assuming at least slightly different voltages between chassis and coach when unplgged - measure the voltage once plugged into shore power (after a few minutes...) I'd expect the voltages to be identical - showing the batteries are now joined in parallel and charging together...

I had been told my Hurricane didn't charge the chassis when camping... The first long trip I didn't realize the 12v outlets near dash (passenger folding desk) were powered by chassis - and I had used them for a while... A voltmeter showed me all was well - and the chassis was indeed being charged while plugged in.

That said - long winter storage NOT plugged in - a trickle charger would be a good idea... Never had that option as the storage location had no power... But my other car (not the toad) currently on a battery tender in michigan while we are enjoying the florida sun...

JamieGeek · 01-04-2017, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

Jamie: Here is a schematic and information sheet I found on the BCC. It's operation is similar to how the BIRD/Trombetta function. It just uses an internal interconnect relay found in the BCC to act like the Trombetta does.

Yeah I have a similar copy of that document; just haven't taken the time to study it and/or all the connections it makes throughout the camper (when I opened the BCC box and looked a lot of the wires indicated in that document were not connected so I suspect Thor isn't using much of the functionality).

It seems to work fine in our camper so I didn't have the motivation to study it as much as I would have if I had a problem.

Oneilkeys · 01-04-2017, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmc

As Oneilkeys said - hard to picture why the Ace would be different...
Have you done anything to verify the behavior on the Ace??

Assuming at least slightly different voltages between chassis and coach when unplgged - measure the voltage once plugged into shore power (after a few minutes...) I'd expect the voltages to be identical - showing the batteries are now joined in parallel and charging together...

I had been told my Hurricane didn't charge the chassis when camping... The first long trip I didn't realize the 12v outlets near dash (passenger folding desk) were powered by chassis - and I had used them for a while... A voltmeter showed me all was well - and the chassis was indeed being charged while plugged in.

That said - long winter storage NOT plugged in - a trickle charger would be a good idea... Never had that option as the storage location had no power... But my other car (not the toad) currently on a battery tender in michigan while we are enjoying the florida sun...

Once you plug it in and the Trombetta or BCC opens (within a minute or so) the chassis battery will read 14.1-13.1v depending on what stage the charger is in and the same as the house batteries - if it is wired correctly. I use a solar trickle charger on my house and chassis batteries when I am gone for 2-3 months and they keep the batteries fully charged.

pughdr45 · 03-13-2017, 08:06 PM

Wish I had found you link earlier we are fighting a charging problem for 2 weeks now.

Oldchief · 08-07-2017, 02:15 PM

Just got new Axis 25.5 last week. Its been connected to 30 amp shore power since we brought it home. Noticed an 'acid' smell near door, so checked in battery compartment under steps. Both batteries in there (assuming 1 is coach battery and other is chassis battery) were warm and wet around the cell caps. Looking in the cells, saw no fluid, only tops of the cell plates, looking dry. I've seen car batteries boil their acid when over-charged and I'm thinking that's what's happening here. So, is there some setting that I've got wrong that might cause this? Called dealer and they said to bring it in but, if I can, I'd like to avoid that 85 mile round trip, if only problem I've got is something not set right. Thanks!

PS: At this point, I've filled all the cells with distilled water and disconnected shore power. Hoping to get an answer here.

JamieGeek · 08-07-2017, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldchief

Just got new Axis 25.5 last week. Its been connected to 30 amp shore power since we brought it home. Noticed an 'acid' smell near door, so checked in battery compartment under steps. Both batteries in there (assuming 1 is coach battery and other is chassis battery) were warm and wet around the cell caps. Looking in the cells, saw no fluid, only tops of the cell plates, looking dry. I've seen car batteries boil their acid when over-charged and I'm thinking that's what's happening here. So, is there some setting that I've got wrong that might cause this? Called dealer and they said to bring it in but, if I can, I'd like to avoid that 85 mile round trip, if only problem I've got is something not set right. Thanks!

PS: At this point, I've filled all the cells with distilled water and disconnected shore power. Hoping to get an answer here.

New Axis coaches come with two house batteries. Chassis battery is under the front "hood".

Oldchief · 08-07-2017, 02:25 PM

I looked in engine compartment and didn't see a chassis battery...maybe its well hidden!

gmc · 08-07-2017, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldchief

I looked in engine compartment and didn't see a chassis battery...maybe its well hidden!

It is very well hidden...
It is under the 'desk' in front of the passenger seat - and often needs to be accessed through that area.

Oneilkeys · 08-07-2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldchief

I looked in engine compartment and didn't see a chassis battery...maybe its well hidden!

In the Axis , the chassis battery is located under the passenger desk. From the front grill it is on the left (passenger) side behind the two large hoses.

Oneilkeys · 08-07-2017, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldchief

Just got new Axis 25.5 last week. Its been connected to 30 amp shore power since we brought it home. Noticed an 'acid' smell near door, so checked in battery compartment under steps. Both batteries in there (assuming 1 is coach battery and other is chassis battery) were warm and wet around the cell caps. Looking in the cells, saw no fluid, only tops of the cell plates, looking dry. I've seen car batteries boil their acid when over-charged and I'm thinking that's what's happening here. So, is there some setting that I've got wrong that might cause this? Called dealer and they said to bring it in but, if I can, I'd like to avoid that 85 mile round trip, if only problem I've got is something not set right. Thanks!

PS: At this point, I've filled all the cells with distilled water and disconnected shore power. Hoping to get an answer here.

The converter/charger in the Axis is not the best piece of equipment. I have had two (2014 Vegas and 2016 Axis) and neither worked correctly. They would not go into float mode so they overcharged the batteries and they would not charge the batteries st the full 14.1v when they were really down. I finally replaced the one in my Axis with a Progressive Dynamics and it works much better.

rzeiler · 08-07-2017, 03:26 PM

Putting a trickle charger on the chassis battery is exactly what I did. In fact, I disconnected the positive terminal from the battery and connected the charger directly. I have not had a dead or low chassis battery since. It's been over a year on two long term stays plugged into shore power.

Oldchief · 08-07-2017, 06:22 PM

OK, to correct my earlier posts, my Axis has 2 coach batteries, under the steps. After looking closer and in an area that I'd NEVER expect to see a chassis battery, there it was, under the hood and under the passenger side of the dash, as other forum members advised, and hiding behind a couple of 2" vent tubes that must direct air somewhere. Doesn't appear to be any way the chassis battery could be removed for replacement or service, other than by removing the desk and pulling it out thru the dash. Even getting jumper cables to it would be difficult. A monumental design flaw by Thor, IMO. So, at this point, I don't think my chassis battery is involved in what appears to be an over charging problem with my 2 coach batteries.

Oneilkeys · 08-07-2017, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldchief

OK, to correct my earlier posts, my Axis has 2 coach batteries, under the steps. After looking closer and in an area that I'd NEVER expect to see a chassis battery, there it was, under the hood and under the passenger side of the dash, as other forum members advised, and hiding behind a couple of 2" vent tubes that must direct air somewhere. Doesn't appear to be any way the chassis battery could be removed for replacement or service, other than by removing the desk and pulling it out thru the dash. Even getting jumper cables to it would be difficult. A monumental design flaw by Thor, IMO. So, at this point, I don't think my chassis battery is involved in what appears to be an over charging problem with my 2 coach batteries.

Actually, in my 2014 Vegas, the only way to change the chassis battery was to go thru the dash under the desk. However in my 2016 E450 they have lowered the battery tray slightly and I have seen reports where thebattery had been changed by turning the wheel all the way in on direction and then lifting the battery down, supposedly a two person operation.

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