Battery Help

[Bogie]

Alright - halfway there I think:

So I ordered a new solenoid: 684-1251-012-02 *NEW* OE Trombetta Solenoid 12V

What I thought would be an easy part swap turned into the typical fiasco whenever I start a project. Instead of one of the lugs for the battery terminals started spinning inside the solenoid housing so I had to dremel it off. After that nonsense replacing it went fairly smoothly.

So that didn't fix the problem completely, but the old solenoid must also have been bad, as now when I press the boost button, I actually get a charge on the house battery. So that's something I guess.

Next part ordered:
https://www.intellitec.com/index.php...or_relay_delay

At least that swap looks a little easier. I am just wondering if I want to pull apart the 3 way splice at the ignition coil or just cut the old ignition wire to the IRD and splice those two together, seems like that would be easier, but it creates a possible point of failure.

[Bogie]

Closing the loop:

Symptom: House Battery / Cabin Battery not charging from engine / alternator

Diagnosis: Tested solenoid and no charge when manually engaged.

Repair 1: Replaced solenoid, house battery would charge when boost button depressed but not without. Ordered Intellitec Isolator Relay Delay (00-00629-120).

Repair 2: After arrival of IRD, began pulling it out and found two fuses. Before cutting wires, decided to check fuse. 7.5A blade fuse was blown. Replaced fuse and everything started working properly, with charge at both batteries when engine is running.

What I Learned: Check the damn fuses before doing hours of electrical work. However, the old solenoid was still bad so it needed to be replaced and that was the hard work.

Future Worries: Did I put everything back together properly? What caused the fuse to blow? Right now everything seems to be running well so I will check after my next trip to see if the house battery is still charging from engine.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[99dart]

Wow... sounds like you persevered tho. I try to remember to check the simple stuff first. But, locating the correct fuses on these things is almost an exercise in futility! They are under the hood, under the dash, in line under the dash, under the bed, under screwed down panels, under the bed, it's ridiculous! While re-installing the kick panel on mine today I saw writing saying "fuel reset switch". I'm thinking, WHAAAT is that for? It is the Ford Inertia Fuel Shutoff Switch. I've never heard of it. Here's a little heads-up about it. https://rts.i-car.com/collision-repa...switch-go.html

[Corneliuskelleher@cox.net]

Most newer vehicles use a bird to keep both sets of batteries charged while driving or on shore/gen power. In 2016 Thor began using a new bird and eliminated the external solenoid which was problematic.

Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay ( BIRD )offers a new approach to charging batteries in an RV application. Unlike prior systems that only allowed charging the RV battery from the engine’s alternator, the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay charges both batteries when either one is being charged. When the coach is being driven, both batteries will be charged from the engine’s alternator. When the coach is plugged into shore power, both batteries will be charged from the converter. If neither battery is being charged, the batteries are fully isolated. The controller also senses heavy loads on either battery to prevent the wrong battery from being inadvertently discharged.

[jewing54]

Had same problem with a 2017 Quantum. The water heater control board shorted out, and would not allow coach batteries to charge while in electic mode. Worked fine on propane. Service replaced control board at heater to fix.

[nmcmilla]

Originally Posted by Corneliuskelleher@cox.net

Most newer vehicles use a bird to keep both sets of batteries charged while driving or on shore/gen power. In 2016 Thor began using a new bird and eliminated the external solenoid which was problematic.

Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay ( BIRD )offers a new approach to charging batteries in an RV application. Unlike prior systems that only allowed charging the RV battery from the engine’s alternator, the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay charges both batteries when either one is being charged. When the coach is being driven, both batteries will be charged from the engine’s alternator. When the coach is plugged into shore power, both batteries will be charged from the converter. If neither battery is being charged, the batteries are fully isolated. The controller also senses heavy loads on either battery to prevent the wrong battery from being inadvertently discharged.

I'm interested in this statement`:
"When the coach is plugged into shore power, both batteries will be charged from the converter."
Is there a way to test to see if my converter is working correctly? I am just getting ready to replace my 2 12-volt house batteries due to a deep discharge (they not longer will hold a charge --though they show 4/4 lights after alternator charging they rapidly deplete) and I wonder if the deep discharge was due to a malfunction of my converter. I would hate to put new batteries in --only to experience the same deep discharge while onshore power. Nancy

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by nmcmilla

I'm interested in this statement`:
"When the coach is plugged into shore power, both batteries will be charged from the converter."
Is there a way to test to see if my converter is working correctly? I am just getting ready to replace my 2 12-volt house batteries due to a deep discharge (they not longer will hold a charge --though they show 4/4 lights after alternator charging they rapidly deplete) and I wonder if the deep discharge was due to a malfunction of my converter. I would hate to put new batteries in --only to experience the same deep discharge while onshore power. Nancy

In general the converter is connected directly to the house batteries--its intent is to charge the house. Typically its the Chassis battery that doesn't get charged when plugged when there is a problem.

The easiest way to check that they are getting charged is use a voltmeter when plugged in; 13V or higher when plugged means they are getting charged.

[JamJanTan]

I am also interested in learning about this BIRD thing. I have a Thor 29FE. Is it the large fuse? box user the hood with many square shaped fuses? ?

[halfprice]

Originally Posted by JamJanTan

I am also interested in learning about this BIRD thing. I have a Thor 29FE. Is it the large fuse? box user the hood with many square shaped fuses? ?

My 2017 hurricane has a BIM, battery isolation manager. The bim replaced the bird. Mine is in tge battery compartment behind the batteries. To see it i had to crawl under the motor home. Heres a couple pics of it

Jerry

[halfprice]

As mentioned the converter charges the house batteries. If the bim sees that the chassis battery is low and needs charging it will pull a charge from the house batteries and charge it for 1 hour then stop. It will switch back and forth from house to chassis at 1 hour intervals until all batteries are charged.

Obviously i had a problem and calked tech support of the bim manufactore. I got good training on how the bim works

[steve76]

What's "sig" stand for?

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Bogie

Closing the loop:

Symptom: House Battery / Cabin Battery not charging from engine / alternator

Diagnosis: Tested solenoid and no charge when manually engaged.

Repair 1: Replaced solenoid, house battery would charge when boost button depressed but not without. Ordered Intellitec Isolator Relay Delay (00-00629-120).

Repair 2: After arrival of IRD, began pulling it out and found two fuses. Before cutting wires, decided to check fuse. 7.5A blade fuse was blown. Replaced fuse and everything started working properly, with charge at both batteries when engine is running.

What I Learned: Check the damn fuses before doing hours of electrical work. However, the old solenoid was still bad so it needed to be replaced and that was the hard work.

Future Worries: Did I put everything back together properly? What caused the fuse to blow? Right now everything seems to be running well so I will check after my next trip to see if the house battery is still charging from engine.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

Glad to see that it's all fixed!
Just sorry that it was such an effort...

[halfprice]

Originally Posted by steve76

What's "sig" stand for?

That's the emergency power switch on the dash. It connect the batteries together to jump start dead battery

[nmcmilla]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

In general the converter is connected directly to the house batteries--its intent is to charge the house. Typically its the Chassis battery that doesn't get charged when plugged when there is a problem.

The easiest way to check that they are getting charged is use a voltmeter when plugged in; 13V or higher when plugged means they are getting charged.

Thanks JamieGeek, this is helpful and I'll check that out. So, final question, is there a possibility that the converter could be "over charging" my house batteries damaging them resulting their not holding a charge? Nancy

[steve76]

Originally Posted by nmcmilla

Thanks JamieGeek, this is helpful and I'll check that out. So, final question, is there a possibility that the converter could be "over charging" my house batteries damaging them resulting their not holding a charge? Nancy

I wonder the same. I would think proper operation would be after converter senses charged battery, it would switch itself to a float charge. I've used a volt meter on mine and while plugged into shore power, volt meter reads 13.56V. Never seen it go down below that. I used a Battery Tender on mine instead of coach converter which I've used the Tender many times before while storing either my truck or car in a garage while out of state for up to 6 months and never had a problem with the Battery or Battery Tender. Never has ruined my batteries or burned off the water. In 6 months water did drop but still adequately above plates in battery. One of the vehicles left was in Bullhead City AZ. where summer temperatures were extreme in my garage. Didn't disconnect battery from car or truck, just plugged Tender in. Nice device and will shut off to float automatically after it senses battery is full charged. Plugged into GFI outlet, never did trip outlet which it would have if there was a surge problem.

[Oneilkeys]

The converter/charger should automatically go into “float” mode (about 13.1v) so as to not overcharge and boil your batteries. Unfortunately, the converter/
Charger that Thor uses in the Axis/Vegas and other RVs is “to put it diplomatically” not top quality. I have had two and neither worked as they should. I replaced mine with a Progressive Dynamics PD4655 and it works. Search Converter/charger in this forum and you should find several discussions and how to test yours. You may have one that works (from your description it does not look like it) but it is a good idea to test it before it ruins your batteries.

[JamieGeek]

Someone else pointed out on the forums here that there are other devices on the 12V bus drawing current, enough so that the converter will never see the battery at "full charge" and thus not switch to float mode.

[Oneilkeys]

In my Axis, it never went into float mode with the old converter/charger when everything was turned off and the use/store is in store, but it always does with the Progressive Dynamics.