RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 

Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Maintenance and Repair
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-25-2020, 02:43 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Black Tank Surprised Fiasco

Today I decided to to not just drain but thoroughly clean and flush tanks.

So I drive to a Camp Sewer facility with plenty of time on my hands. I have 2019 Sunstar 29VE

I first setup and start to drain the black tank. While that was going on I drain the fresh water tank. My coach requires turning on water pump for fresh water to drain. After 10 minutes or so, I connect a fresh water hose to my black tank Sani Flush system. It must have run another 10 minutes, but all water was coming out of black tank was drinking fresh clear So I open up the the gray tank and it starts to drain; so far all is good.

Eventually the fresh water stopped draining from fresh water tank. I then cut off and disconnected the hose to the sani flush. After 5 minutes all water had stopped; so I put up the sewer hose and prepared to drive back home.

But I tried some different

I left the low point drains lines open, thinking that the drive home may splash some more water to get in a position to drain out? I left both valves open for the gray & black tank, because I figure they were empty or just a little water residue may come out? But for good measures; I did put the sewer cap back on.

I drive home (15 minutes) and park. I decided to remove the sewer cap to let what I thought would be remnants of fresh water from sani flush hose, but noooooo, I got a big gush of black waste water It was a lot of waste water; so much that I had to quickly put the sewer cap back on.

My question is where this all of this black waste water suddenly come from? That tank had been open for at least 5 minutes with nothing coming out?
__________________

__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 02:49 AM   #2
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 16,846
THOR #8860
Could it have needed to be vented?
We always crack open the toilet, and ours drains as it should.
__________________

__________________
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 02:53 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
ducksface's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 2,483
THOR #13932
If there's a bend in the black tank drain line, a saniflush only works to that bend, and no further.
Think about what it does and then think if it could possibly do that around a 45 or 90.

I'm not a fan.
My guess is yours just backed up fresh water.
__________________
Below is a link to most of my modifications either accomplished or pending.
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...n-18996-3.html

Click on my pictures then click the pop-up for a full screen zoomable picture.
ducksface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 02:58 AM   #4
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Pinnacle 300
State: Arizona
Posts: 30
THOR #20005
I recently bought a macerater pump (possibly spelled wrong) to drain my black water tank out without needing a dump station. I drained mine, similar to yours black water stopped coming out.
Checking my tank level indicator after, my black tank was still 1/3 full. The only way I got it to drain fully was by pumping water up the drain pipe by shutting the macerater pump off but leaving the water hose running through the pump. Nearest I can guess is something blocked the drain the first time. Perhaps toilet tissue or something, and backfilling it would have broke it loose.
Yours could have done similar and driving home sloshed the contents around enough to clear the drain.
__________________
Rooster210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 03:04 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Could it have needed to be vented?
We always crack open the toilet, and ours drains as it should.
We have a vent on the black and gray tanks. Go straight up through the roof.

Not sure we can hold our toilet open without holding the foot pedal or some some of obstruction in the physical toilet? But it is vented anyway.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 03:13 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
If there's a bend in the black tank drain line, a saniflush only works to that bend, and no further.
Think about what it does and then think if it could possibly do that around a 45 or 90.

I'm not a fan.
My guess is yours just backed up fresh water.
There is horizontal 90 degree elbow coming out of tank, then there are two different 22 degree elbows before it makes a 90 degree elbow turn downward to final 90 degree elbow to the spout.

I concur Sani Flush could not clean the pipes, but water coming out was all clear?

I could not follow your last two comments?
I'm not a fan.
My guess is yours just backed up fresh water.

__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 03:24 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster210 View Post
I recently bought a macerater pump (possibly spelled wrong) to drain my black water tank out without needing a dump station. Where do you drain to with macerator pump? I drained mine, similar to yours black water stopped coming out.
Checking my tank level indicator after, my black tank was still 1/3 full. The only way I got it to drain fully was by pumping water up the drain pipe by shutting the macerater pump off but leaving the water hose running through the pump. Nearest I can guess is something blocked the drain the first time. Perhaps toilet tissue or something, and backfilling it would have broke it loose.
Yours could have done similar and driving home sloshed the contents around enough to clear the drain.
I am sure that driving is part of it, but I drove to the facility so it had sloshing then. One theory could be the level of the tank at facility versus at home? Maybe the angle did not allow all of the solids to drain when it is was 100% flat but at driveway with a gradual slope for rains and coach not level it allow more from the tank to come out? I may refill the black tank through sani flush, drive back to facility and drain again. Close it off and drive home to see it I can get 2- 3 gallons of water to come out of black tank.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 03:42 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
ducksface's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 2,483
THOR #13932
When the water hits a corner it stops moving except for up. It fills the drain line and backs up on the saniflush. The water only rises in the tank and doesn't have any jet action.
The flush simply washes the gravy down rivulets it makes in the solids. Eventually the rivers run clear.
You driving was like an earthquake at the mouth of the mississippi, and liquified the deltas... Then the dam broke when you reopened the valve.
__________________
Below is a link to most of my modifications either accomplished or pending.
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...n-18996-3.html

Click on my pictures then click the pop-up for a full screen zoomable picture.
ducksface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 04:52 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Travelin' Texans's Avatar
 
Brand: Redwood
State: Texas
Posts: 1,220
THOR #3610
Please say you weren't filling your fw tank & flushing the black tank with the same hose?????
__________________
Danny & Linda
Sold our '13 Thor Redwood 36 FB
Currently RV & truckless
Replacement undetermined
Travelin' Texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 11:47 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Judge's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 1,390
THOR #12751
I agree that you experienced a damming situation from not flushing with enough water on a regular basis. Then when you were driving home, the "dam" broke. This could have happened for a two reasons: toilet flushing and black tank rinsing / flushing.

First, it surprises me how many people treat an RV toilet like a home toilet where one flush (1/2 to 1 gallon of water) gets the waste down stream.

Depending on the design of the black tank system (toilet to black tank location, plumbing, etc.) it can be exacerbated when not enough water is used for flushing. This is also why many people complain about their tank sensor being inaccurate.... debris ends up sticking to the sensors instead of being pushed to the bottom of the tank.

I flush a 1/2 bowl full of water for #1 and two bowl fulls for #2 to ensure the waste is going to the bottom of the tank. My coach has the toilet on the passenger side and the black tank and drain on the driver's side.

Then, after emptying the black tank I fill it full of water once to rinse it using the San-T-Flush port to further push out any remaining debris. I have a digital flow meter to know when I am close to having the black tank full before I open the drain again.

Just using the San-T-Flush to run some water through the tank won't get it done. Especially where you have low water pressure in some places. Filling the tank with water using the San-T-Flush allows 20 - 30 gallons of water to push any remaining debris out of the tank. Otherwise, you think the tank is empty but it is not and debris builds up over time. With the full tank rinse I can still see debris being removed from the tank.

Finally, we then add Calgon water softener and Dawn to the black tank with about 5 gallons of water.... the Calgon makes the water very slippery and hopefully coats the walls of the tank while we drive to minimize debris sticking to the sensors and other places inside the tank.

I know all the water conservationists will blast me for my misuse of water.... so feel free to do so if it makes you feel better. These rigs don't have a typical septic / sewer system and my method prevents odor, blockage and waste build-up and I am ok with that.
__________________
Judge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 02:16 PM   #11
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 16,846
THOR #8860
If you hear somebody yell, "Fire in the hole!": get out of the way!

__________________
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
"History shows again and again; how Nature points out the folly of Man!"
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 02:27 PM   #12
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Pinnacle 300
State: Arizona
Posts: 30
THOR #20005
The macerator drains into my home septic system through means of a toilet on the same end of the house as my driveway. I just run a 1 inch water hose from the pump to the toilet and shove it down the drain of the toilet. Theres enough force to the pump that it makes the climb up into the bathroom window from the ground which is about 5 feet. The pump has a grinding blade similar to a blender or coffee grinder in it. It cuts all the waste up small enough that it hasn't given us an issue with our home septic and with a family of 6 using our home bathrooms calling the septic guys out isn't a big deal.

As for the slope of home versus the dump.... my driveway slopes to the road which actually puts the nose of the RV lower then flat ground would. Our tank monitor shows the tanks empty now however, Im not going looking in there to double check.
__________________
Rooster210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 02:42 PM   #13
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 16,846
THOR #8860
Rooster,
Did you mount the macerator permanently in the dump bay; or is it a portable unit?
How tough was it to get power to it?
__________________
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
"History shows again and again; how Nature points out the folly of Man!"
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 02:54 PM   #14
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Pinnacle 300
State: Arizona
Posts: 30
THOR #20005
The directions say not to permanently mount it so its removeable. It just screws on like the lid to the pipe does. For me getting power to it wasn't hard. I have a 110V outlet on the same end of the house and just run the pump off a battery charger plugged into the house. However, it wouldn't be too difficult to just run a 12V power wire to the compartment my tank drain is in.
The pump runs off of 12V so in theory it could run off the compartment light although I'm not sure the wiring for the light could handle the amperage the pump draws.
__________________
Rooster210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 03:07 PM   #15
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 16,846
THOR #8860
Thanks!
__________________
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 03:35 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans View Post
Please say you weren't filling your fw tank & flushing the black tank with the same hose?????
I didn't say I was filling FW tank at all?

The FW reference was to the fact that I was draining the FW water while I was dumping both gray & black tanks. Time management 101 when preparing to winterize which I was doing

FWIW, I didn't really need to winterize but, I plan to take my RV to dealership just before my 1 year warranty ends with my final list for Winnebago. As it is always an unknown as to how long they may need, I don't wish to have to call Dealer to add a winterization service if a sudden freeze were to come.

But to your concern, I have two hoses in two separate compartment. I have the orange Camco sewer which I have only used once. This facility had sewer hose that reached my wet bay. Thus far we have yet to ever need our fresh water hose at a campsite. (meaning thus far we have never needed more than the 70 gals we left the house with). Our bottleneck is 40 gallon gray tank that will always fill first.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 03:51 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Florida
Posts: 1,028
THOR #1249
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
Snip

I drive home (15 minutes) and park. I decided to remove the sewer cap to let what I thought would be remnants of fresh water from sani flush hose, but noooooo, I got a big gush of black waste water It was a lot of waste water; so much that I had to quickly put the sewer cap back on.
Oh no, I'm having thoughts of the movie "RV" with Robin Williams.

Had that happen to me when I did not close the black valve from the previous dump. It is impossible to get to the valve closed fast enough. Shoes socks and pants went straight to the dumpster.
__________________
2015 Thor Vegas 24.1 in Ocala
mcr1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 04:13 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I agree that you experienced a damming situation from not flushing with enough water on a regular basis. Then when you were driving home, the "dam" broke. This could have happened for a two reasons: toilet flushing and black tank rinsing / flushing.

First, it surprises me how many people treat an RV toilet like a home toilet where one flush (1/2 to 1 gallon of water) gets the waste down stream.

Depending on the design of the black tank system (toilet to black tank location, plumbing, etc.) it can be exacerbated when not enough water is used for flushing. This is also why many people complain about their tank sensor being inaccurate.... debris ends up sticking to the sensors instead of being pushed to the bottom of the tank.

I flush a 1/2 bowl full of water for #1 and two bowl fulls for #2 to ensure the waste is going to the bottom of the tank. My coach has the toilet on the passenger side and the black tank and drain on the driver's side.

Then, after emptying the black tank I fill it full of water once to rinse it using the San-T-Flush port to further push out any remaining debris. I have a digital flow meter to know when I am close to having the black tank full before I open the drain again.

Just using the San-T-Flush to run some water through the tank won't get it done. Especially where you have low water pressure in some places. Filling the tank with water using the San-T-Flush allows 20 - 30 gallons of water to push any remaining debris out of the tank. Otherwise, you think the tank is empty but it is not and debris builds up over time. With the full tank rinse I can still see debris being removed from the tank.

Finally, we then add Calgon water softener and Dawn to the black tank with about 5 gallons of water.... the Calgon makes the water very slippery and hopefully coats the walls of the tank while we drive to minimize debris sticking to the sensors and other places inside the tank.

I know all the water conservationists will blast me for my misuse of water.... so feel free to do so if it makes you feel better. These rigs don't have a typical septic / sewer system and my method prevents odor, blockage and waste build-up and I am ok with that.
Wow Judge, this is what I needed. I am going to put your lessons learned in my personal SOP for future

Few noteworthy points
1. Our toilet is on passenger side with drain on driver side like yours, I looked at the plumbing diagram and there are several elbows
2. I am guilty of thinking the sani flush as savior and it needs help to be
3. If I could pick one mod for Winnebago, it would be to re-plumb the bathroom sink to drain to the black tank vs the gray. Or at least put a valve where you could divert to tank of your choice. The outside kitchen sink does drain to the black tank but it is seldom used.
4. Will Calgon water softener and Dawn have any chemical reaction to Thetford waste tank odor treatment?
5. After dumping the black, I usually let the saniflush run until all water is clear. I never thought to close it all back up and let it fill again with sani flush on and then re-dump. I will certainly try that.
6. And yes this facility had really low water pressure my guess 30 - 40 psi.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 04:24 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
If you hear somebody yell, "Fire in the hole!": get out of the way!

So you making fun of my stupidity

My incident was not quite that bad, I think it was just 2 - 3 gallons of wastewater that came out, besides there was no one watching; so officially it didn't really happen, this thread is hypothetical
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2020, 04:29 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 841
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcr1010 View Post
Oh no, I'm having thoughts of the movie "RV" with Robin Williams.

Had that happen to me when I did not close the black valve from the previous dump. It is impossible to get to the valve closed fast enough. Shoes socks and pants went straight to the dumpster.
Thanks, now I don't feel so bad... it could also happen if you think you closed the valve but maybe it only closed 90%? When you take that cap off ... "surprise" In future, I will try to look for some assurance the wastewater valve is 100% sealed before putting the cap back on.
__________________

__________________
2019 Sunstar 29VE w/Magellan Tent
Safe T Plus EC-30 AGS
Nighthawk X4 AC2200 WiFi EX7300; H/W Heater & Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 11:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
×