Blow out or antifreeze

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

This morning in Ohio... glad I did BOTH

It is 61* in Dallas right now, I just did a double blowout today with a 2nd compressor just to be sure. But that 86* this morning in Ohio sounds really nice, I may not ever winterize with those temperatures

[Chateau_Nomad]

Squint a little harder and you'll see that little decimal point...

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Squint a little harder and you'll see that little decimal point...

Oh you me that little dot? Like dotting the "i" in Ohio? What's up with everybody's in decimal points and dots in Ohio?

Even though I had drained and blew out, when I did it a 2nd time today, I got more moisture to spit out each of the faucets. I think it was caused by humidity accumulated over past few weeks, prolly not enough to do damage.

I have no RV antifreeze anywhere including the drain lines and P traps. No smells so I am all good. Any fumes or gases in my tanks will vent 24/7 via my Siphon 360.

It got down to 21* here last week.

[Chateau_Nomad]

We're on the typical Ohio January temperature roller coaster... single digits one day; 40s the next... then back to single digits. . Gotta love frozen mud...

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

We're on the typical Ohio January temperature roller coaster... single digits one day; 40s the next... then back to single digits. . Gotta love frozen mud...

We're doing chores early in the day before the mud thaws.
Frozen mud is the best kind we have

[MJC62]

We've been single digit lows the last three days. Today we got a break it hit 32* and we had freezing rain.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

Anyone with an AquaHot or larger coach will use anti-freeze. Freezing up an Aquahot will cost 4-8k easily

I use peroxide to clear the left-over bittering agent that give the ice or water a bit of taste and is an excellent disinfectant or sterilization chemical

Air by itself is risky at best in cold climates but can work given less complex systems

This happened here in montana. My tech Kurt charged a customer $14,000 larger coach. She blew out and things froze broke. She is rich and told him to fix regardless of cost

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by MJC62

We've been single digit lows the last three days. Today we got a break it hit 32* and we had freezing rain.

Come to Montana -30 not bad

And 30 year tech tells everyone ALWAYS PINK

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

This happened here in montana. My tech Kurt charged a customer $14,000 larger coach. She blew out and things froze broke. She is rich and told him to fix regardless of cost

There is a quote that says the bigger the headache, the bigger the pill

There is also something called an Owners Manual. One should ALWAYS follow it and only deviate at their own risk.

My manual goes through great length to tell me how to properly winterize my RV. RV Antifreeze is NOT required. Although they do list procedure as part of optional 2nd method for folks that desire to use RV Anti Freeze. I use to put the RV anti freeze in the p traps, but I just stopped that to see if I really will have a problem with odors? Thus far no difference.

So in summary, winterizing procedures are in fact coach specific, best to do AT LEAST what your manual says, that is what I do; and that is why now, I don't use ANY RV Antifreeze for anything.

Still waiting for that poster that surfaces that says hey you know what; I properly winterized my RV using blow out method , and I had pipe burst I submit it is simply NOT possible for both conditions to be true. I now have a dedicated compressor in my RV 24/7 where I can blow out anytime I wish while on the road. I am year around user of my RV and I winterize 3 or 4 times per year on average thus far. My coach in actually winterized for the 2nd time this winter. When I get ready to go somewhere, I will add water and go

Note: I don't have Aqua Hot, sounds like something I can't afford anyway; and if I could; I probably would have dealers winterize my coach and I am pretty sure most dealers will always use RV Antifreeze because they do not have time to go through the procedures for different types of RVs / coaches they may see. It is liability thing in the event they may improperly drained something for blowout otherwise.

[lwmcguire]

If your in an area that gets down to 10 or below forget the air and follow the owners manual which says to use antifreeze

Small non complex RV's might survive with a blow out if you put antifreeze in the traps

Larger complex including Auqahot and washer might get blown out with a 5hp compressor and a couple hours

Save the grief and use antifreeze

Lot of difference between RV's and people

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

If your in an area that gets down to 10 or below forget the air and follow the owners manual which says to use antifreeze

Small non complex RV's might survive with a blow out if you put antifreeze in the traps

Larger complex including Auqahot and washer might get blown out with a 5hp compressor and a couple hours

Save the grief and use antifreeze

Lot of difference between RV's and people

My RV manual does not says to blow out and it does not say anything about geography or where you may. It just for freezing temperatures during storage or periods of non usage period. It does allow for optional to backfill will with RV Anti freeze.

So I agree with your statements that you should follow the owners manual for your specific coach especially for things like Aqua hot & Washing machines which I view as exceptions for the masses.

What grief do you presume if you properly winterize using blow air method; and did NOT use RV antifreeze?

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

My RV manual does not says to blow out and it does not say anything about geography or where you may. It just for freezing temperatures during storage or periods of non usage period. It does allow for optional to backfill will with RV Anti freeze.



So I agree with your statements that you should follow the owners manual for your specific coach especially for things like Aqua hot & Washing machines which I view as exceptions for the masses.



What grief do you presume if you properly winterize using blow air method; and did NOT use RV antifreeze?

The problem with air is volume, timeing, sequence

Adequate volume to move water droplets

Proper time to blow droplets after stream

Sequence from air supply, logically moving close to farthest, highest to lowest

Watching for antifreeze at each faucet hot/cold takes the guess work out

I agree Air can be done successfully but is way more prone to failure than an exact science

[ducksface]

So,
Relatedly unrelated:
I'm cleaning up a bit in what i call
'Zombie Land' a 15x30 part of the shop where crap gets tossed and friends store stuff. I go through it about every 6 months.

I find a half empty gallon bottle of windshield washer fluid.
Huge letters across the front, 72pt font:

'FREEZE PREVENTION DOWN TO THIRTY-TWO DEGREES'.
They seem so proud of it.(or it's a GIANT ass-covering)


Double check that rv antifreeze low temp.

That is all.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

The problem with air is volume, timeing, sequence

Adequate volume to move water droplets

Proper time to blow droplets after stream

Sequence from air supply, logically moving close to farthest, highest to lowest

Watching for antifreeze at each faucet hot/cold takes the guess work out

I agree Air can be done successfully but is way more prone to failure than an exact science

That is what my manual says to do, what am I missing? I don't have or see any grief of following the manual.

Not exactly rocket science to drain the low point lines (which arguably could be enough), hook up air compressor @ 40 -50 psi and let it blow until all faucets and toilet quit spitting water.

After three years of reading this forum, never heard of anyone saying they properly blew air out of lines and had any kind of freeze failure
The fact that some may opt to go a step further and use RV antifreeze for there specific coach / specific appliance is purely their option unless their manual mandates that RV Antifreeze must be used.

Ironically in contrast to where you were going, I do see adding the optional RV antifreeze as grief

1. More stuff to buy and store in garage / RV
2. Takes longer to apply
3. Foul taste on fresh water supply
4. Must sanitize after every treatment of use which for me; would be 4 times per year
5. Also prone to failure if RV Antifreeze is not applied properly; which ironically would be the EXACT same point of failure that you may have had if the Air dry method was not properly executed

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

So,
Relatedly unrelated:
I'm cleaning up a bit in what i call
'Zombie Land' a 15x30 part of the shop where crap gets tossed and friends store stuff. I go through it about every 6 months.

I find a half empty gallon bottle of windshield washer fluid.
Huge letters across the front, 72pt font:

'FREEZE PREVENTION DOWN TO THIRTY-TWO DEGREES'.
They seem so proud of it.(or it's a GIANT ass-covering)


Double check that rv antifreeze low temp.

That is all.

Mine is down to 32* as well

I guess I will start draining my washer fluid, blow the windshield washer tank, and add the RV Antifreeze (-50*) that I no longer have any use for

[rudyhehn]

As noted above I drain the lines, tanks and HW heater first, then I blow out my lines and have no problems in 6 years. I use antifreeze in the traps and drains. I suspect a few drops of water left in the lines will not cause trouble if there is room to expand.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Easy solutions:

Originally Posted by dkoldman

That is what my manual says to do, what am I missing? I don't have or see any grief of following the manual.

Not exactly rocket science to drain the low point lines (which arguably could be enough), hook up air compressor @ 40 -50 psi and let it blow until all faucets and toilet quit spitting water.

After three years of reading this forum, never heard of anyone saying they properly blew air out of lines and had any kind of freeze failure
The fact that some may opt to go a step further and use RV antifreeze for there specific coach / specific appliance is purely their option unless their manual mandates that RV Antifreeze must be used.

Ironically in contrast to where you were going, I do see adding the optional RV antifreeze as grief

1. More stuff to buy and store in garage / RV
I buy 2 gallons - cheaper than a bottle of Boone's Farm. I have about 2 cups leftover, which sits in the jug on the RV toilet over winter in case of evaporation. It gets tossed in spring.

2. Takes longer to apply
What's the rush... every day is Saturday isn't it?

3. Foul taste on fresh water supply
Don't drink that GROSS water from an RV tank!! Get a Berkey and filter your drinking water! I won't even drink municipal tap water at home... it goes through an RO filter before it goes in my mouth!

4. Must sanitize after every treatment of use which for me; would be 4 times per year
I'm assuming if you're drinking that tank water, you're flushing it with sanitizer anyway... if it's sat for any length of time?

5. Also prone to failure if RV Antifreeze is not applied properly; which ironically would be the EXACT same point of failure that you may have had if the Air dry method was not properly executed
I agree... what I worry most about is residual water trapped in the water pump. But by pumping antifreeze THROUGH the pump, you eliminate that issue. However, is air pressure alone going to clear that water? One method may be to run the pump while the lines are pressurized with air?

[Scubawise]

Our 30 year tech said near impossible to blow water out of pump and pump strainer may fail.
We showed me a live demonstration

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

Our 30 year tech said near impossible to blow water out of pump and pump strainer may fail.
We showed me a live demonstration

If that is true, water in a Shurflo pump with subfreezing temperatures will not damage a Shurflo Water pump. I have two.

I have gone 3 winters now and the worst freeze was that week long 8* - 14* freeze we had in Dallas last February, I got similar in March in Colorado.

Both pumps are in close proximity to low point water drain valves, in my RV the pumps MUST be on to pump water out of the fresh water tank. Those pumps can run dry, and when the water is no longer on the supply side; that is exactly what will happen, the Shur Flo pump will run dry. At that point; I remove the strainer and dump it's contents just for good measure.

I got a gallon of RV Antifreeze for Sale, brand new never unopened, pretty pink color and guaranteed to give your freshwater a special taste and fulfilling the psyche of any that believe they absolute must have

The gallon I had was purchased for the P Traps, but I now question if that is really necessary? When I poured in the P traps before it was to block odors from holding tank. But the more I dig into and research; I am not sure I see any benefit for RV Antifreeze in my RV PERIOD. It has been about a month now, and I smell nothing even sniffing down the kitchen sink.

[yukongrant]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

The gallon I had was purchased for the P Traps, but I now question if that is really necessary? When I poured in the P traps before it was to block odors from holding tank. But the more I dig into and research; I am not sure I see any benefit for RV Antifreeze in my RV PERIOD. It has been about a month now, and I smell nothing even sniffing down the kitchen sink.

I'm not sure you will need any RV antifreeze. The reason I like antifreeze in the P trap is to push the water that's there out. That's being super careful. I really don't think the little bit of water in a P trap will cause a problem. The water can expand easily without breaking a pipe. And the P trap is a cheap and easy fix if you happen to have some really bad luck one year.
You do need some kind of liquid in the P traps and in the toilet bowl for seals. No odors will get by that seal. But it does not matter if the liquid is water or the pink stuff. (I suppose you could pour tea down there and will work just as well. But keep the bourbon for drinking!)