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Old 01-12-2022, 02:14 AM   #61
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I've been successful with using air to blow out the system, drain the water heater and put pink stuff in the drains. It gets down to 10F or so here, and I've not had anything get damaged.
Same.
Takes 15 minutes.
We use ours all year, so found best/easiest way.
Store ours at local storage place.
Small compressor, run generator under load, about 20-25psi.

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Old 01-12-2022, 03:11 AM   #62
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dk - I was confused how you were evacuating water from the traps? Just let it evaporate? I guess you could blow it out with a little ingenuity... some sort of drain plug with a hole?

I understand your resistance to pumping pink stuff into supply lines. I agree with you 100%... no water, no freeze, and nothing to flush.

Regarding the traps... just me, but short of experimenting, why not just pour a couple cups of pink into those traps? It takes all of 5 minutes, then you're done. It automatically flushes into the tanks anyway next time you run a faucet. Skip the toilet, there's no trap anyway.

In your situation, with blowing out the supply lines and pink in the traps... spur of the moment trip prep is a snap. Fill the fresh tank (or just 1/3 ), run faucets to expel the air... DONE.

Regarding the 360 siphon vents... those came factory installed on mine. You know how I flush my blank tank... LOTS of "free" well water (my garden watering source ). I use a sewer clean out in my back yard as a convenient dump... so I REALLY flush that tank. The only expense is electricity to run my well pump.

However, I ALWAYS notice a "funk smell" ONLY while flushing... tell tale black tank odor inside the MH. There are only three paths... bath sink, toilet or gravity (fumes from the vent dropping and drifting in through the open door).

That said... I would not trust a dry bathroom sink trap... empty tank or not. There is NO WAY to completely scrub/sanitize that black tank. I prefer to vent any clingons odor up the vent; not up through the bathroom sink. Now, had they drained the bathroom sink into the gray tank...
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Old 01-12-2022, 03:45 AM   #63
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The further North you go and the more complex the RV the less air to evacuate is used

Almost all Aquahot broken heat exchaare due to not using antifreeze

Only a minimum $4000 mistake

I have replaced broken poly and copper lines due to water expansion

No air for my Coach
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Old 01-12-2022, 03:50 AM   #64
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dk - I was confused how you were evacuating water from the traps? Just let it evaporate? I guess you could blow it out with a little ingenuity... some sort of drain plug with a hole?

I wasn't evacuating water in P traps, I just assumed it was empty from driving it and NOT add the pink stuff. But I learned today I was wrong so when I was saying no odors I had water in p traps even though I did not pour in pink stuff.


I understand your resistance to pumping pink stuff into supply lines. I agree with you 100%... no water, no freeze, and nothing to flush.

Regarding the traps... just me, but short of experimenting, why not just pour a couple cups of pink into those traps? It takes all of 5 minutes, then you're done. It automatically flushes into the tanks anyway next time you run a faucet. Skip the toilet, there's no trap anyway.

Again, I have always poured the RV stuff in p traps and drain, last month i didn't because I wanted to test what happens if I did not poor RV antifreeze in p traps. I never considered the fact the regular water would still be in p trap, despite all of that driving

In your situation, with blowing out the supply lines and pink in the traps... spur of the moment trip prep is a snap. Fill the fresh tank (or just 1/3 ), run faucets to expel the air... DONE.

Yes I just add water and go, full tank though, same thin in reverse, it is snap to rewinterize again. Back in Dec, I just rewinterized without the pink stuff in p trap to see what would happen. The answer is NOTHING. I have no intent to try to take any action to remove water from the p trap, nor am I concerned with water in a p trap freezing. Just the same I may start back adding in P traps because I still have a gallon of pink stuff.

Regarding the 360 siphon vents... those came factory installed on mine. You know how I flush my blank tank... LOTS of "free" well water (my garden watering source ). I use a sewer clean out in my back yard as a convenient dump... so I REALLY flush that tank. The only expense is electricity to run my well pump.

I got rid of my OEM worthless vents and bough the 360 Syphon, I love them and they work well, but maybe not that well to pull odors from take if my p traps was in fact empty? I doubt if I will ever go long enough for water in P trap to evaporate.

However, I ALWAYS notice a "funk smell" ONLY while flushing... tell tale black tank odor inside the MH. There are only three paths... bath sink, toilet or gravity (fumes from the vent dropping and drifting in through the open door).

That said... I would not trust a dry bathroom sink trap... empty tank or not. There is NO WAY to completely scrub/sanitize that black tank. I prefer to vent any clingons odor up the vent; not up through the bathroom sink. Now, had they drained the bathroom sink into the gray tank...

Odors have never been a problem but it use to be when moving if someone flush toilets we may get odors inside the coach, the 360 Syphon fixed it. People reading I think get wrong about why I did NOT put the pinks stuff in p traps last month. It was only intended to see what would happen, but I had a fallacy assuming the p tanks was dry Given it is wet with water and that water will not cause freeze damage, the pink stuff is still optional, although I may start back using it
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Old 01-12-2022, 03:59 AM   #65
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Gotcha.
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Old 01-12-2022, 04:09 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by lwmcguire View Post
The further North you go and the more complex the RV the less air to evacuate is used

Almost all Aquahot broken heat exchaare due to not using antifreeze

Only a minimum $4000 mistake

I have replaced broken poly and copper lines due to water expansion

No air for my Coach
Again my 30 year tech agrees..he has many MH & custom horse trailers up to $1 million dollars that did not use pink damaged


Again -50 or for me below 32 PINK PINK PINK 💗
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Old 01-12-2022, 04:54 AM   #67
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Again my 30 year tech agrees..he has many MH & custom horse trailers up to $1 million dollars that did not use pink damaged


Again -50 or for me below 32 PINK PINK PINK 💗
- I don't know if anyone has said they use air method for Aqua Hot or even Washer machine (yet)?

- Don't think too many with 1 million dollar RV & Trailer winterize themselves?

- Don't know of any dealer or repair center that don't use RV antifreeze?

- Don't know of any one saying you should not use RV antifreeze?

But the vast majority of people that winterize themselves do not have to, although they may replicate what repair centers to and use the RV antifreeze

Not sure it is even a debate? If there was a discussion, it would be for those that don't know how to properly drain their RV or don't trust themselves doing; so they use the RV antifreeze for added protection. If I owned a RV shop, I would use RV antifreeze on ever RV #1 to make more money and #2 so reduce liability should I not properly drain.

One more analogy
One person may buy premium gas for their RV, while the other buys Regular Unleaded, both decisions are fine, one cost a little bit more but they both do the exact same thing. But if you let water get in any one of them, you will have trouble.

One more thing, I would NEVER tell anyone they should not use RV antifreeze. But I will tell why I don't and why I don't need as others have said, there is no right or wrong, just what you need or what you want.
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Old 01-12-2022, 05:42 AM   #68
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Take it from someone who had to change black and gray water valves. The gray smells worse. Now after I discovered Happy Camper I used and use it in both gray and black tanks. I had to change the valves again in my fifth wheel and it eliminated all odder. I use it all the time in my tanks now.
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Old 01-12-2022, 11:38 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
Follow up:

I pulled my kitchen sink P trap a little while ago and not only was it full with water it was cold

I would have thought the driving would have moved it but apparently not. So my takeaways...

1. My odor testing with no RV antifreeze is invalid; null and void because despite no RV antifreeze in P trap, I still had water in the P trap; so the water may have blocked any fumes. But it certainly explains why I could smell nothing with my nose in the sink drain.

2. Given there is a little water in the P Trap, I had to switch to my Engineering. Primarily because I know this has NEVER been a problem with temperatures in lows teens over several days.

So the question now becomes Will a frozen P-trap burst?
Answer: No
Misconception: Ice expansion causes a pipe to burst.

Why? The pipe areas upstream of the blockage aren't typically in danger of bursting because the pressure isn't great enough. ... Rather, the resulting pressure from unfrozen water between the ice and closed faucet is the primary cause of ruptures in frozen pipes.
Since the drain plumbing and faucet fixture are independent; it is not a closed system nor pressurized

Given my odor test is now dead, and the fact that I still have 1 gal of RV antifreeze left from last year in my garage, I may pour a cup or two in the drains, just because I have some. But those that believe in doing so is to block odors might be surprised; as you should not get odors regardless of whether you put RV anti freeze in drain or not.
The poster in #48 must be a genius! And if it gets cold enough, quick enough, believe me, the pee trap pipe will crack. Been there, done that!

Now, on to something else. I think the OP (Im really into these abbreviations) has about 50 methods of winteriZing their RV.
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Old 01-12-2022, 12:39 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
- I don't know if anyone has said they use air method for Aqua Hot or even Washer machine (yet)?

- Don't think too many with 1 million dollar RV & Trailer winterize themselves?

- Don't know of any dealer or repair center that don't use RV antifreeze?

- Don't know of any one saying you should not use RV antifreeze?

But the vast majority of people that winterize themselves do not have to, although they may replicate what repair centers to and use the RV antifreeze

Not sure it is even a debate? If there was a discussion, it would be for those that don't know how to properly drain their RV or don't trust themselves doing; so they use the RV antifreeze for added protection. If I owned a RV shop, I would use RV antifreeze on ever RV #1 to make more money and #2 so reduce liability should I not properly drain.

One more analogy
One person may buy premium gas for their RV, while the other buys Regular Unleaded, both decisions are fine, one cost a little bit more but they both do the exact same thing. But if you let water get in any one of them, you will have trouble.

One more thing, I would NEVER tell anyone they should not use RV antifreeze. But I will tell why I don't and why I don't need as others have said, there is no right or wrong, just what you need or what you want.
Amen happy 2022
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Old 01-12-2022, 01:34 PM   #71
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So,
I've given plenty of folks plenty of time, even tied balloons to it all:
If you blow out, why would you mess with ANY liquid in the p trap when a Partially filled Ziploc bag of anything from m&m's to pink antifreeze, layed on TOP of the drain is absolutely fool-proof at blocking smells and gasses and can be done at anytime, anywhere, if you're getting a little crosswind-at-the-vent shtink?

Solved?
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:22 PM   #72
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https://www.amazon.com/Wellvo-Winter...%2C628&sr=8-20
Blow out tools.
(That female will pressure-wash the dog poop off of your porch when hooked to a garden hose)


https://www.amazon.com/Camco-36543-C...s%2C219&sr=8-1
Antifreeze line adapter
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Old 01-13-2022, 12:00 AM   #73
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https://www.amazon.com/Wellvo-Winter...%2C628&sr=8-20
Blow out tools.
(That female will pressure-wash the dog poop off of your porch when hooked to a garden hose)

My order placed, didn't even to look to see what it was but seeing free shipping and that it comes with twist valve!!! That valve is a lot better than what I have today. It is cleaner to turn valve off and then disconnect the hose.

When I get back from stocking up on M & M's; I may read the specs closer and hope the thing fits but since it is Duck Approved I know I must need one anyway; especially when it is in my price range between $10 and Free
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Old 01-13-2022, 12:10 AM   #74
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If the male on that fitting is not compatible with your females, a female that fits the new part, a 1/4"nipple and your systems male will adapt it.

(I'll try to post a picture of the drawer full, maybe 25, of adapters.
I use the big full flow fittings. Some friends don't. So when I loan an air tool we have to go through that Damn drawer...back in time sometimes 60 years). I am trying to give away the air tools as I'm almost all battery now. But It's easier for the guys to borrow and not store, than to own and store.

Your adapter will cost you $3. But there's an 95% chance the thing you just bought is universal.
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Old 01-13-2022, 12:20 AM   #75
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If the male on that fitting is not compatible with your females, a female that fits the new part, a 1/4"nipple and your systems male will adapt it.

(I'll try to post a picture of the drawer full, maybe 25, of adapters.
I use the big full flow fittings. Some friends don't. So when I loan an air tool we have to go through that Damn drawer...back in time sometimes 60 years). I am trying to give away the air tools as I'm almost all battery now. But It's easier for the guys to borrow and not store, than to own and store.

Your adapter will cost you $3. But there's an 95% chance the thing you just bought is universal.
I am not worried if it don't fit, I have a Money Back Duck Card

I may have to drive to Arizona to get my money, but it is an option

I have one blow out adapter and it is for my boat but it fits the RV. If this works I will keep in RV to with my Makita so I am able to use Air Blow Method 24/7 with my RV without needing anything from home.
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Old 01-13-2022, 12:30 AM   #76
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A note for others:
When I blew out the bil's trailer I used the airgun wrapped in a wet rag to seal the gravity fill.
It worked fine.


I did the same on same on each drain and each faucet.

And
Cooking oil DOES NOT EXPAND when cold or frozen in traps. It does not evaporate.
Use what's at hand instead of storing a gallon of pink.
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Old 01-13-2022, 02:09 AM   #77
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A note for others:


And
Cooking oil DOES NOT EXPAND when cold or frozen in traps. It does not evaporate.
Use what's at hand instead of storing a gallon of pink.
Are you saying RV Antifreeze evaporates?

I know water evaporates but I doubt it will evaporate before I drive it during the winter. Anybody got idea how long it take to evaporate 1 cup or water vs 1 cup of RV antifreeze.

Besides, I still have the unfinished test to see if I can actually smell odors in the RV if my P traps are dry? I have always used the RV antifreeze until last month's experiment.

FWIW cooking oil is $7.50 per gallon

I hadn't opened my 1 gal of RV anti freeze yet to pour in the p traps. I am still trying to decide why I would do so? i.e. I am not worried about p traps freezing, so it appears my only need would be if my water in P traps were to evaporate, and if the odors were a problem for me with a dry P trap?

From any research I can find, I don't see where it is possible for p trap to burst if freezes over, it has plenty room to expand on both sides.

Besides, what wrong with putting packets of M & Ms over the drain
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Old 01-13-2022, 02:15 AM   #78
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Well,
I have some loose p traps here.
We will hit -10 before winter is over.
I'll try to round up the traps and experimentate.
But you are right.
Cross section vs volume won't trap the ice.
It'll just expand.
And
At our standard 6% humidity(a bag of premix concrete at hd is 6% in the bag)(please don't make me dig up the pic of 2%humidity here) my traps are ALWAYS empty. The toilets in the shop go p trap empty in a week.

I could, with the right tools build a cross wind and get a shtink.
I do not under natural circumstances, ever get a shtink in the rv .
However,
On VERY cold days the shtink from our house roof vent will lay down on the ground. Similar to smoke on a cold day. Just a whiff, but it induces that
Girly scream in my head followed by SEPTIC TANK FAILED!
A split second of THAT thought every Damn time....
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Old 01-13-2022, 03:14 AM   #79
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Do not forget Toilet line and Toilet ball frezes?
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Old 01-13-2022, 03:22 AM   #80
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Here's a bit of oddity:
My rv toilet ball holds water until it evaporates.
Not Even the tiniest leak.
From what I've read this is like lotto odds.
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