Coach batteries not charging connected to shore Please Help

timononk · 12-04-2019, 11:07 PM

First, thank you for your help...

She is a Huricane 2006, class A

The batteries charger ( under the bed) is new.
The charger is providing 12v power, ( running from the generator or the shore)

test batteries light show 12v
amp test running the furnace indicate 14 amp provided by the charger DC clamp test

The coach batteries is engaged and the selenoid in the box under the hood is working fine. BCC
when switch is off, no 12v power in the RV. (no shore, no generator)

when switch is on, 12v power in RV (no shore, no generator)

everything is working on 12v (no shore, no generator)

But, the charger is not charging the coach batteries !

If I read the voltage at the coach batteries ( no shore, no generator) I have 12.1v, when I read the voltage at the coach batteries after starting the generator or plug the shore, Ie still see 12.1v, event 3 hours later.

In conclusion, batteries provide power to the coach, charger provide power to the coach, but the charger doesn't provide any power to the batteries!

Is there a fuses or something somewhere that will separate the charger power to reach the batteries?

This doesn't make sense to me!

paulwadley · 12-05-2019, 12:01 AM

You might have tripped the coach battery breaker. It is usually next to the coach batteries in line with the battery cable. It usually has either a red or yellow flag that shows when it is tripped.

**16ACE27** · 12-05-2019, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timononk

The coach batteries is engaged and the selenoid in the box under the hood is working fine. BCC
when switch is off, no 12v power in the RV. (no shore, no generator)

when switch is on, 12v power in RV (no shore, no generator)

everything is working on 12v (no shore, no generator)

So what happens when you open the disconnect switch when plugged into SP? Do the 12 VDC items work or not?

javelin · 12-05-2019, 12:36 AM

Welcome to the forum. I don't know your 2006 specifics but I think you have the RV Custom BCC in the engine bay driver side. Inside the BCC there is a grey colored 50 amp cct breaker with a small black reset button on it. Check to make sure that button is pushed in. If it has tripped the open breaker will prevent the converter (battery charger) from connecting to the coach battery or the chassis battery for charging. Take care opening and working inside the BCC. Grey breaker shown in lower left corner of attached jpeg.

What concerns me though is you say with shore and gen off and coach battery disconnect "on" you get lights working normally. If the BCC 50 amp breaker is tripped, you should not get any coach battery connected to the coach 12vdc fuse panel fed from the converter. Maybe I missed something in your description though.

timononk · 12-06-2019, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

So what happens when you open the disconnect switch when plugged into SP? Do the 12 VDC items work or not?

the disconnect switch is always on? Yes they work, was able to test the charger producing the voltage an amp to start the furnace

timononk · 12-06-2019, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javelin

Welcome to the forum.

What concerns me though is you say with shore and gen off and coach battery disconnect "on" you get lights working normally. If the BCC 50 amp breaker is tripped, you should not get any coach battery connected to the coach 12vdc fuse panel fed from the converter. Maybe I missed something in your description though.

Thank you, yes me too,

Everything is fine on coach batteries only, except that they are low 12v,

On shore or when the gen is working, the batteries doesn't charge, but the charger is, got 110v to the charger socket, got voltage and measure amp output from the charger to start and run the furnace. (14 amp)

I will have to redo all my test.

Check the 44 fuses in the BCC box today, they are ok.

Should the reset button in the BCC box stay down?

Maybe someone before me did change something in the system and now I have to find it.

timononk · 12-06-2019, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulwadley

You might have tripped the coach battery breaker. It is usually next to the coach batteries in line with the battery cable. It usually has either a red or yellow flag that shows when it is tripped.

I don't see that on my RV. If the coach battery breaker was tripped off, I think I will have no 12v power when I not running the generator or connected to the shore.

javelin · 12-06-2019, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timononk

the disconnect switch is always on? Yes they work, was able to test the charger producing the voltage an amp to start the furnace

I assume you have a digital voltmeter from your previous comments.

You said the converter (battery charger) is new......so I am wondering if something possibly is hooked up wrong at the output of the converter and DC fuse panel. When on shore power, what is the voltage reading you get on any one of the DC fuses on the fuse panel at the end of the bed? Is it 12.1 vdc or is it more than 12.6vdc?

Now disconnect the coach from shore power. What is the voltage reading on any one of the DC fuses?

Leave shore power disconnected. Since your coach batteries are at 12.1 vdc you should recharge them by starting the coach engine and use the alternator to charge both chassis and coach batteries (this may require you to turn on the chassis battery disconnect switch if equipped). Wait abut 5 minutes after starting the coach engine and then measure the voltage across both chassis and coach batteries. What voltage readings do you get on both battery strings?

Assuming the coach battery latching relay is still on, what voltage do you measure on any one of the DC fuses on the fuse panel at the end of the bed?

timononk · 12-07-2019, 12:54 AM

Ok, here what I did today,

With the RV generator working, I check the voltage of each 12v fuses at the bed, on each side of the fuses. They all read 13.65 v.

Without the RV generator, or plug to the shore, only on the coach batteries, I check the voltage of each 12v fuses at the bed, on each side of the fuses again, they all read 12.16v.

This is the same voltage I have at the batteries.

With the RV generator working, I check the voltage at the BCC on both pole of the selenoid for the coach, both pole had 12.10v.

Here the catch, the charger positive wire goes directly to the fuses box, the BCC coach wire pole goes (I assume) directly to the fuse box also. They are side by side on the fuses circuit board. The charger in order to charge the batteries need to be able to see the voltage of the batteries, since it's a 3 stage charger and stop charging at 13.60. The charger, at the fuse box see 13.65v, so no need to charge.

Now, looks like I have to investigate why I'm able to read 13,65v at the fuse box and not something like 12.6v.

I don't know what is that circuit board. Just a fuses sockets board or more complicated than that with diodes and others components!

**16ACE27** · 12-07-2019, 01:35 AM

You are reading 13.65 VDC at the fuses etc with the generator running because that is what the converter is putting out. The 12.1 VDC without the generator/converter operating is the state of your battery voltage, which is pretty low. What do you read at the battery WITH the generator/converter running? It should be close to the same voltage you read at the fuses; 13.6 VDC and the battery will be charging at that voltage. It will probably take a couple of hours for the converter to ramp up to 14+ VDC and many more hours after that to fully charge those batteries; IF they will take a charge.

javelin · 12-07-2019, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timononk

Ok, here what I did today,

With the RV generator working, I check the voltage of each 12v fuses at the bed, on each side of the fuses. They all read 13.65 v.
Sounds like your gen is feeding 120VAC to the new converter and the DC output of the converter is working and powering the fuse panel OK at the end of the bed.

Without the RV generator, or plug to the shore, only on the coach batteries, I check the voltage of each 12v fuses at the bed, on each side of the fuses again, they all read 12.16v.
So with no AC from the gen or shore the converter charging output (13.6vdc) stops and you are "seemingly" left with the discharged coach battery voltage level measured on the DC fuse panel. So this should confirm that the + connection from coach batteries to the BCC (connected to the coach battery terminal on BCC); then passes through the BCC (via coach battery latching relay which is "on"); then passes through the closed 50 amp grey circuit breaker (also inside the BCC) and comes out of the BCC (On the terminal marked House) and connects all the way back to the fuse panel at the foot of the bed where you measured 12.1 vdc.

This is the same voltage I have at the batteries.
Yes it seems that you have a good connection from coach battery to the fuse panel at the foot of the bed OK.

With the RV generator working, I check the voltage at the BCC on both pole of the selenoid for the coach, both pole had 12.10v.
With gen running again you read only 12.1 vdc on both sides of the coach battery latching relay (not sure how you are safely doing that inside the BCC ?) but it means the latching relay contacts are closed OK. What voltage do you measure on the House terminal on the outside of the BCC? This is the connection point from the fuse panel at the foot of the bed

Here the catch, the charger positive wire goes directly to the fuses box, the BCC coach wire pole goes (I assume) directly to the fuse box also.

Yes that should be correct. I don't know your coach, but there should also be two 30 or 40 amp fuses on the fuse panel board (or somewhere close) that protects against accidentily hooking the coach battery cables up backwards. I assume those fuses are good from your earlier voltage measurements?

They are side by side on the fuses circuit board.

Can you trace out the coach battery cable and does it connect to the same point as the output of the converter......or does it pass through a fuse?

The charger in order to charge the batteries need to be able to see the voltage of the batteries, since it's a 3 stage charger and stop charging at 13.60. The charger, at the fuse box see 13.65v, so no need to charge.
Yes we are trying to find out why the 13.6 vdc from the charger output at the fuse panel foot of the bed is not connecting to the BCC House connection feed.....or at least where the connection is open. The 13+vdc is the charging voltage that should be connecting to the coach batteries to charge them.

Now, looks like I have to investigate why I'm able to read 13,65v at the fuse box and not something like 12.6v.
No the 13.6 vdc out of the converter is good.....you need to find out why it is not connecting to the coach batteries through the BCC.

I don't know what is that circuit board. Just a fuses sockets board or more complicated than that with diodes and others components!

It would also be interesting to see what happens when you disconnect shore; turn off gen and start and run your coach engine so the alternator charges the chassis and coach batteries. Wait five minutes after starting the engine (not gen) and measure voltages on both chassis and coach batteries. make sure you leave the coach battery latching relay "on" (closed). You should see the alternator output voltage on both battery strings......so start recharging your coach batteries. What voltage do you measure at the fuse panel by the bed now?

timononk · 12-07-2019, 03:01 PM

WOW, thank you for your time, really appreciate your input in regards to my problem

With the RV generator working, I check the voltage at the BCC on both pole of the selenoid for the coach, both pole had 12.10v.
With gen running again you read only 12.1 vdc on both sides of the coach battery latching relay (not sure how you are safely doing that inside the BCC ?) but it means the latching relay contacts are closed OK. What voltage do you measure on the House terminal on the outside of the BCC? This is the connection point from the fuse panel at the foot of the bed

The test was done at both House terminal outsite the BCC box, for sure, not inside the box.

Other test need to be done, but I will like to talk about my concern.

I used a car charger to charge my House batteries, the car charger indicate the voltage of the batteries, so you see the voltage changing from 12,1v to 12,5v, to 13.2v to .. this reading is the reading at the batteries pole.

My friend have a solar charger controler in his RV, in the morning, event if the charger is producing 14.2v, you see only 12.6v, going up slowly to 13.8v during the day. This is the same, this is the reading at the batteries pole.

My concern is that at the 12v fuses box under the bed, I should read the same voltage of the batteries pole, with or without the shore connected or the generator working.

Seing 13.65v at the fuses box under the bed it's not normal, it should be the same reading we see at the batteries poles. The charger will not produce charging amp if the voltage at the terminal of the charger is already indicate 13.65 v.

javelin · 12-07-2019, 04:09 PM

Good morning. Well the only true voltage reading from your coach batteries is taken with them unloaded and with no battery charger connected to them....and usually after a few hours after the charger and loads were disconnected. If a working battery charger is connected correctly to a normal wet cell battery, you will be reading the voltage of the charger output at that instant, not the true voltage of the battery itself. It can take many hours for discharged wet cell batteries to recharge to the typical full charge reading of 12.6vdc approximately (no load; no charger applied; after a couple hours rest ideally). So when your converter is on gen or shore AC power its 13+vdc output should be applied to the fuse panel at the end of the bed, as well as the coach batteries (when all connections are good; and "eventually" to the chassis batteries too if the BCC electronics is working). Unless the coach batteries are damaged (like shorted cells etc) you should see at least a charging voltage higher than the 12.1 vdc you are measuring when the charger is applied to it. That's why I suggested running the coach engine (not gen) to see if the alternator output voltage (14+ vdc usually) can be seen across both coach and chassis batteries and if you can see it at the fuse panel (end of the bed) where the BCC House (Coach) battery cable connection ties into the fuse panel and converter output.

I am attaching pictures of my end of the bed fuse panel showing at the top where the converter output - ground and coach chassis ground tie together; and where the converter output + cable and coach battery + terminate. The two 40 amp fuses between the two + cable terminations are the reverse battery protection fuses. I would think there should be continuity between the two + cables through at least one of the protection fuses.

I don't know your coach specifics but I would think that most RV converter fuse panels would have something similar. I am just wondering if (for some reason) where the converter output and the coach battery cable are terminated on your fuse panel board, they are not connected together correctly or a fuse is blown. Also attaching a "basic" converter to fuse panel schematic to show where the two reverse protection fuses are outlined in yellow.

**16ACE27** · 12-07-2019, 04:16 PM

I'm not sure you understand how DC circuits work. Below is a simplified schematic of your House DC system in your coach. This does not include any cross-over to the Chassis battery.

It is a simple parallel circuit so as long as the USE/STORE solenoid and main DC breaker are closed whatever voltage is measured across the battery (Point C) will also be measured at Points A and B.

So if the converter is OFF you should see battery voltage (12.1 to 12.8 VDC) at the output of the converter (the fuses).

If the converter is ON and producing 13.65 VDC as measured at Point A you should see that same voltage (or a couple of tenths less due to voltage drop in the wiring) at the battery (Point C)

If this is not the case then you have an open circuit between the battery and the converter.

The converter does not "see" battery voltage, it sees its own output voltage and how much current is flowing. Although it may be trying to put out 14.5 VDC at first, the lower battery voltage will drag it down to a lower number and maximum charging current will occur. As the battery charges its internal voltage rises and less current is flowing to charge the battery. The converter sees the lowered current flow and changes modes (charging voltage) to prevent overcharging and cooking the battery.

timononk · 12-09-2019, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

The converter does not "see" battery voltage, it sees its own output voltage and how much current is flowing. Although it may be trying to put out 14.5 VDC at first, the lower battery voltage will drag it down to a lower number and maximum charging current will occur. As the battery charges its internal voltage rises and less current is flowing to charge the battery. The converter sees the lowered current flow and changes modes (charging voltage) to prevent overcharging and cooking the battery.

Ok, now it's make sense to me.

Can a bad fuses board can restrict the batteries bank to drag the power from the charger.

Here what looks my 12v fuses board. This thing look bad at the top left conner exatly where the charger and the house batteries connect. Pd 6000.

javelin · 12-09-2019, 05:40 PM

I am not familiar with the Prog. Dynamics PD6000 panel nor is there a lot of info on their site about how to wire it that I can find. The only link about it with some pictures of the rear view of the panel are attached.

Installing new DC power distribution panel - Airstream Forums

From the looks of your panel it has either been overheated to cause what looks like solder flux to run down the face......or someone has re-heated the terminal connections with a soldering iron/gun to try to fix a broken connection perhaps? This panel does not look like it has the reverse battery protection fuses. From the hyperlink pictures rear view I am “guessing here”, the red cables (one from output of the converter and one from the + terminal of the coach batteries (via the appropriate BCC devices coming out on the House terminal of the BCC) would both terminate on the top common lugs for the 12vdc fuse bus. They “may” have a split + bus on this panel so some fuses power from one source and the rest from another terminal source, but to me (if there are no reverse battery protection fuses) the two + cables should terminate on the top lugs so they are electrically connected together.
The silver ground bus bar looks like it should terminate a - white coach chassis ground cable and the - white cable output of the converter. The coach batteries should have their own ground cable tied to the coach chassis. The ground bar probably also enables the LED lights to illuminate when a fuse is removed or blown. If in doubt about wiring on your panel, I would contact Prog Dynamics tech support to be sure there is no reverse battery cable protection fuses anywhere; and where exactly the battery and converter + cables terminate. So my “guess” here is the red + cables should be tied together electrically so when on shore or gen the converter output feeds fuses and charges your batteries. When you measure voltage on the two red cables on your DC fuse panel you should get the same reading if they are electrically connected.

timononk · 12-10-2019, 12:34 AM

Thank you all to point me in the right direction, the problem is fixed.

The red wire, coming from the BCC to the fuses box that connect in the top left corner was badly assembled. The screw wasn't holding the wire. The plastic from the wire melded down in the wire hole.

Clean that up, screw the wire pretty good and I was back in business.

So even though we have good voltage and continuity, that doesn't mean that we have a good contact so the amp will go thru.

javelin · 12-10-2019, 01:45 PM

Glad you have resolved your bad main connection at the fuse panel. Always ensure that all your high current power feeds and ground connections are clean and tight. Any resistance in high current carrying connections will create heat and eventually, over time, a fire could result if things get bad enough. You have learned a lot about your coach from this problem. Good job.

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