Emergency start weirdness...

[Jesse Toler]

Hey guys somewhat of a newbee here so excuse my ignorance. I have a 2015 vegas and this weekend I was boondocking for a few days. Generator running the whole time. My wife noticed the night shade wouldn't go up. So I tried to start the engine and it didn't start AND what I found weird was it shut off the generator. At that point I had no power anywhere. The chassis battery was of course dead but then it was like the house was in store mode and the generator didn't want to start. I actually had another generator I started up and plugged that into the shore power which got me some power to the house. This helped some things but not everything. I tried the emergency start switch with no luck. Long story short my buddy gave me a jump and I got home without issue.

With this said I'm made of questions.

-does this sound like I have a lot of dead batteries?
-do you think I have a emergency start solenoid issue?
-why in the heck would starting the engine kill the generator?
-where is the emergency start solenoid located?

[HarryS]

Your generator should have charged your batteries. Since it did not, you may have an issue with your converter, as it's supposed to take 120VAC and make 12 VDC to charge the batteries. Check the circuit breaker for the converter. The emergency start only connects the chassis and house batteries together to make one good circuit. If both sets of batteries are dead, then nothing happens. Your generator requires 12 VDC to run. When you used all the power available to try to start the engine, the generator died.

[Jesse Toler]

Thanks Harry! I assumed that's what happened when the generator died but I wasn't sure that the generator need constant power to run. I'm also not sure that the house batteries where completely dead. I want to test that this week. Would there be any other signs of my house batteries being dead? Once the engine was running my panel said the batteries was 3/4 charged.

Just to free my mind, nothing charges the chassis battery other than the engines alternator correct?

[16ACE27]

Was your USE/STORE switch in USE? If not, that generator running all weekend didn't charge any batteries. But, that doesn't explain the chassis battery losing charge. Probably need to fully charge and test all batteries in the coach.

[Jesse Toler]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Was your USE/STORE switch in USE? If not, that generator running all weekend didn't charge any batteries. But, that doesn't explain the chassis battery losing charge. Probably need to fully charge and test all batteries in the coach.

Yeah we were using it for sure. Definitely going to test all batteries just to be sure. I really want to check the emergency start solenoid as well.

[taylorbob1]

Originally Posted by Jesse Toler

Yeah we were using it for sure. Definitely going to test all batteries just to be sure. I really want to check the emergency start solenoid as well.

Yes, I’m reading that both the Use/Store and the Emergency Start solenoid get corroded on the inside
That said, they have a couple of screws & can be easily taken apart and cleaned if you get into a situation where things aren’t working as they should.

[OldWEB]

Originally Posted by Jesse Toler

Hey guys somewhat of a newbee here so excuse my ignorance. I have a 2015 vegas and this weekend I was boondocking for a few days. Generator running the whole time. My wife noticed the night shade wouldn't go up. So I tried to start the engine and it didn't start AND what I found weird was it shut off the generator. At that point I had no power anywhere. The chassis battery was of course dead but then it was like the house was in store mode and the generator didn't want to start. I actually had another generator I started up and plugged that into the shore power which got me some power to the house. This helped some things but not everything. I tried the emergency start switch with no luck. Long story short my buddy gave me a jump and I got home without issue.

With this said I'm made of questions.

-does this sound like I have a lot of dead batteries?
-do you think I have a emergency start solenoid issue?
-why in the heck would starting the engine kill the generator?
-where is the emergency start solenoid located?

Battery Charging Systems Installed by Thor on Vegas/Axis
The coach is equipped with either a Battery Control Center
(BCC) or a Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay (BIRD) and
Trombetta (isolation relay) that performs two important
functions. They provide a method of charging the coach
battery from the engine alternator and charges the chassis
battery from the converter when the coach is plugged into
shore power. When neither battery is being charged, the
batteries are isolated from each other to prevent the loads of
one battery from inadvertently discharging the other battery.
The BCC (if so configured) is in the storage compartment
under the driver’s seat. It will probably be a RV Custom
Products model TH-1020 see Appendix 5).
If not equipped with a BCC there will be a Thor model
0300224 Fuse Box under the driver’s seat with the BIRD
housed in a plastic enclosure suitable for mounting under the
hood, out of direct water spray. It operates in combination
with a continuous duty solenoid to connect the two batteries
at the proper times for charging (see Appendix 4).


From Ed Felker's manual

[Mr Sunshine]

Strongly suggest you access the manual for Vegas/Axis by Ed Felker. Its in a sticky under Motorhome Tech Topics. It will answer you haven't thought of.

IF you Use/Store button was on and operating properly, maybe you have the original batteries and they are overdue to be replaced. If that is the case, they lasted longer than most. If the panel under the flip desk on the passenger side hasn't been cut out, the chassis battery is probably original.

I've replaced all three batteries in my 2016 Vegas, and just recently had to replace the BIRD. It's an easy DIY job.

[taylorbob1]

And as I posted today on another thread...
- my Use/Store solenoid went out and I’ll be replacing that

Bottomline, things wear out and you must be prepared

[Jesse Toler]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

Strongly suggest you access the manual for Vegas/Axis by Ed Felker. Its in a sticky under Motorhome Tech Topics. It will answer you haven't thought of.

IF you Use/Store button was on and operating properly, maybe you have the original batteries and they are overdue to be replaced. If that is the case, they lasted longer than most. If the panel under the flip desk on the passenger side hasn't been cut out, the chassis battery is probably original.

I've replaced all three batteries in my 2016 Vegas, and just recently had to replace the BIRD. It's an easy DIY job.

The house batteries don't look like orginal batteries although the chassis battery does even though the dash is cut (which is nice for oil changes too). It has been a year of dead batteries for me so that makes since. I have it on a tender now and I'm going to hit it with a load tester too just to see.

[Jesse Toler]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

Strongly suggest you access the manual for Vegas/Axis by Ed Felker. Its in a sticky under Motorhome Tech Topics. It will answer you haven't thought of.

IF you Use/Store button was on and operating properly, maybe you have the original batteries and they are overdue to be replaced. If that is the case, they lasted longer than most. If the panel under the flip desk on the passenger side hasn't been cut out, the chassis battery is probably original.

I've replaced all three batteries in my 2016 Vegas, and just recently had to replace the BIRD. It's an easy DIY job.

Originally Posted by OldWEB

Battery Charging Systems Installed by Thor on Vegas/Axis
The coach is equipped with either a Battery Control Center
(BCC) or a Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay (BIRD) and
Trombetta (isolation relay) that performs two important
functions. They provide a method of charging the coach
battery from the engine alternator and charges the chassis
battery from the converter when the coach is plugged into
shore power. When neither battery is being charged, the
batteries are isolated from each other to prevent the loads of
one battery from inadvertently discharging the other battery.
The BCC (if so configured) is in the storage compartment
under the driver’s seat. It will probably be a RV Custom
Products model TH-1020 see Appendix 5).
If not equipped with a BCC there will be a Thor model
0300224 Fuse Box under the driver’s seat with the BIRD
housed in a plastic enclosure suitable for mounting under the
hood, out of direct water spray. It operates in combination
with a continuous duty solenoid to connect the two batteries
at the proper times for charging (see Appendix 4).


From Ed Felker's manual

Thank you! This is extremely helpful. I have been reading about the BBC and the BIRD. I don't know which my 2015 would have but I'm going to check out that manual now.

[RichS]

I have 30 amp service at home. My coach battery is always charged. About every two weeks I will take the RV for a 8 mile drive. Helps keep the chassis battery charged knocks off the rust on the brakes. Then once a month I will run the generator for an hour and load it up.

I also carry a portable battery booster. Never had to use it on the RV but I had to use it on my toad. Works great.

Just got a new one. Tacklife T8 Pro.

[Jesse Toler]

Originally Posted by RichS

I have 30 amp service at home. My coach battery is always charged. About every two weeks I will take the RV for a 8 mile drive. Helps keep the chassis battery charged knocks off the rust on the brakes. Then once a month I will run the generator for an hour and load it up.

I also carry a portable battery booster. Never had to use it on the RV but I had to use it on my toad. Works great.

Just got a new one. Tacklife T8 Pro.

I'm definitely adding one of these to my list of must have cargo. They never hurt to have. I'm lucky enough to store mine in doors and most of the time I just leave it plugged into shore power. Do you think its bad to leave it plugged in all the time or should I just let it load up and disconnect it?

[RichS]

People have different views on that. My OEM battery lasted 4 years. I now have a AGM. I never boondock I always have full hookups when I am out so my battery never have a load on it. So I really can't help on that. I keep mine plugged in all the time.

I have the Ford 6.8L V10 engine. The Tacklife T8 Pro is suppose to start up to 7.5 L gas engine. You can also use it to jump your coach battery to start the generator. If the battery is dead.

[Jesse Toler]

Originally Posted by RichS

People have different views on that. My OEM battery lasted 4 years. I now have a AGM. I never boondock I always have full hookups when I am out so my battery never have a load on it. So I really can't help on that. I keep mine plugged in all the time.

I have the Ford 6.8L V10 engine. The Tacklife T8 Pro is suppose to start up to 7.5 L gas engine. You can also use it to jump your coach battery to start the generator. If the battery is dead.

I see. I do a lot of motorcycle events in mine so I'm always boondocking. My genny gets worked! So the generator starts and runs of the house batteries? I assumed it ran of the chassis battery. Seemed like it this past weekend when the generator shut of when I tried to start the RV with a dead chassis battery. Then the generator didn't want to start at all. With the generator running all weekend the house batteries shouldn't of been dead unless I have a inverter problem. I would think if my inverter wasn't working everything would of died sooner. I definitely have some investigating to do.

[taylorbob1]

Originally Posted by Jesse Toler

I see. I do a lot of motorcycle events in mine so I'm always boondocking. My genny gets worked! So the generator starts and runs of the house batteries? I assumed it ran of the chassis battery. Seemed like it this past weekend when the generator shut of when I tried to start the RV with a dead chassis battery. Then the generator didn't want to start at all. With the generator running all weekend the house batteries shouldn't of been dead unless I have a inverter problem. I would think if my inverter wasn't working everything would of died sooner. I definitely have some investigating to do.

Do you mean Converter?
The unit that charges the batteries?

[OldWEB]

Originally Posted by taylorbob1

Do you mean Converter?
The unit that charges the batteries?

Hard to say, some inverters have a charger built in.
OP, the generator is typically off the house batteries.

[nick104]

I had to replace my chassis battery and both house batteries today. The RV Service man that I used has done excellent work in the past. He told me that when the Axis 24.1 2016 year is plugged into shore power that the chassis battery is NOT charged. I always thought all batteries are being charged as needed when I plug into shore power. So- Is my chassis battery charged when I keep it plugged into 120 volt A/C shore power at home ? Also where is the use/store selonoid located on my 2016 24.1 Axis ? I have tried to use it in the past when the chassis battery was too low to start the engine and nothing happens when I push the start switch in and hold , then try to crank the v-10 engine. Thanks Nick in TN P.S. Thank you Ed Felker for sharing your 2015 Axis 24.1 manual. Exceptionally well done. I use it a lot.

[nick104]

In a previous thread I asked where the use/store solenoid was located by mistake. I meant to ask where the emergency start switch solenoid was physically located. I have tried several times to use that switch and nothing ever happens when I hold the switch in and then try to start the engine with the ignition switch. I don't hear any noise or latching sound when the switch is held in. I have read somewhere that if the chassis battery voltage is too low ( say below 4 or 5 volts that the house and chassis batteries will not work together to start the engine. Any truth to that ? Thanks nick 104@epbfi.com in TN.

[RichS]

In my Class C shore power only charges house battery.