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Old 10-12-2019, 01:31 AM   #61
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 29m
State: California
Posts: 164
THOR #16201
I am not sure why it did not do the blue color format for me.


Javelin: So are you plugging the converter into a coach 120vac receptacle and just measuring the converter DC output voltage while not connected to the battery string cables through the latching relay? Or did you fully re-install the converter with all cabling? What voltage are you measuring at the coach batteries at the same time......should also be 14vdc if the latching relay is closed and any breakers are closed in that coach battery charge circuit. If not 14vdc at the batteries what is the DC voltage on the main power terminals of the latching relay shown in jpeg 4 of 11 (Red on bottom connection and top cable connection?

Machinetools1: No… I plugged the AC portion of the converter into the receptacle outlet, I plugged the positive (RED) wire into the DC portion of the converter as well as the ground side (WHITE). I fully reinstalled the converter. I just checked the volts now and it reads 13.52 at the converter DC terminals with the cables hooked up. The ATS from the top red to the bottom red read .02 volts and the batteries read 13.5 volts.

Javelin: When you turn off the gen the ATS will switch back to shore power automatically. So when on gen, converter DC output drops off. Does the converter AC input stay at 118vac when running on gen?

Machinetools1: Yes just checked 118.3 AC volts

Javelin: Very odd that the converter output voltage would stay constant when not connected to batteries and also when connected to the batteries. Did coach DC lights and fans work OK? I wonder what readings you would get if you fully recharged the coach batteries to 12.6 vdc

Machinetools1:Could this possibly mean a bad converter?

Javelin: So on gen you were getting 118vac input to converter before, but 12's on the output and the fuses are dead that feed DC lights and fans? Is the cable from the DC output of the converter connected to the small fuse panel OK? Normally the use/store switch controls battery power feed back to the fuse panel at the converter.....but you opened that latching relay with this test. So the converter output from the gen or shore should power the DC lights and fans

Machinetools1: The DC volts started at 13.5 but I was watching it drop into the 12’s. The way it looks like the converter is hooked up is:
The red from the converter is soldered into the bottom of the 12 volt fuse box. On the other side at the bottom of the 12 volt fuse box about inch away from the incoming is an outgoing red wire that goes to the latching relay. Another red wire comes out of the latching relay and goes to a metal lug on the (Firefly circuit board). The white negative wire goes from the converter to a lug on the inside of the bed.

Javelin: No that is the latching relay not ATS. The ATS should be in a metal enclosure box with gen feed and shore feed cables entering and a third cable feed output going to the AC breaker panel to feed the 50 amp 2 pole breaker.

Machinetools1: I found it. It’s the big black box in the bottom of the bed area.

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Old 10-12-2019, 03:27 AM   #62
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2013 ACE 30.1
State: Alberta
Posts: 1,410
THOR #2631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinetools1 View Post
I am not sure why it did not do the blue color format for me.
Highlight your text and then select the text color from the A text dropdown or just select a new text color first and type.



Javelin: So are you plugging the converter into a coach 120vac receptacle and just measuring the converter DC output voltage while not connected to the battery string cables through the latching relay? Or did you fully re-install the converter with all cabling? What voltage are you measuring at the coach batteries at the same time......should also be 14vdc if the latching relay is closed and any breakers are closed in that coach battery charge circuit. If not 14vdc at the batteries what is the DC voltage on the main power terminals of the latching relay shown in jpeg 4 of 11 (Red on bottom connection and top cable connection?

Machinetools1: No I plugged the AC portion of the converter into the receptacle outlet, I plugged the positive (RED) wire into the DC portion of the converter as well as the ground side (WHITE). I fully reinstalled the converter. I just checked the volts now and it reads 13.52 at the converter DC terminals with the cables hooked up. The ATS from the top red to the bottom red read .02 volts and the batteries read 13.5 volts.
Sounds like your converter just plugs into an AC receptacle in its cabinet. At least it is fully reinstalled. The .02 voltage drop is just in spec for closed latching relay power contacts that I am aware of....so the relay is closed and sounds like the batteries are charging (see the same voltage coming out of the converter).


Javelin: When you turn off the gen the ATS will switch back to shore power automatically. So when on gen, converter DC output drops off. Does the converter AC input stay at 118vac when running on gen?

Machinetools1: Yes just checked 118.3 AC volts

Javelin: Very odd that the converter output voltage would stay constant when not connected to batteries and also when connected to the batteries. Did coach DC lights and fans work OK? I wonder what readings you would get if you fully recharged the coach batteries to 12.6 vdc

Machinetools1:Could this possibly mean a bad converter?


See my previous post.....I am thinking yes.....maybe just intermittent problem like a cold solder joint or bad connection. ATS seems to work and converter sees stable AC input voltages you say.


Javelin: So on gen you were getting 118vac input to converter before, but 12's on the output and the fuses are dead that feed DC lights and fans? Is the cable from the DC output of the converter connected to the small fuse panel OK? Normally the use/store switch controls battery power feed back to the fuse panel at the converter.....but you opened that latching relay with this test. So the converter output from the gen or shore should power the DC lights and fans

Machinetools1: The DC volts started at 13.5 but I was watching it drop into the 12s. The way it looks like the converter is hooked up is:
The red from the converter is soldered into the bottom of the 12 volt fuse box. On the other side at the bottom of the 12 volt fuse box about inch away from the incoming is an outgoing red wire that goes to the latching relay. Another red wire comes out of the latching relay and goes to a metal lug on the (Firefly circuit board). The white negative wire goes from the converter to a lug on the inside of the bed.
I can't explain why on gen the converter DC output seems unstable. I would think in spec AC input voltage would produce stable converter output if the converter was working correctly.


Javelin: No that is the latching relay not ATS. The ATS should be in a metal enclosure box with gen feed and shore feed cables entering and a third cable feed output going to the AC breaker panel to feed the 50 amp 2 pole breaker.

Machinetools1: I found it. Its the big black box in the bottom of the bed area.
Looks like a bakelite or plastic case but you found it.....good.

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Old 10-12-2019, 04:24 PM   #63
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 25.4
State: California
Posts: 210
THOR #7440
Machinetools1, your wiring is a lot cleaner than what mine was, mine looked like a rats nest and had the relays and a few other things just laying on the floor, I cut out about 20 feet of surplus wire and went to work with some loom material, loom clips and zip ties to clean it up, there were about 25 loose screws mixed in with all the wiring, I found several of the wires for the AC and the DC loose, if you have something loose inside the converter then its worth looking into, my first inverter/charger failed after the first year so I pulled it out and took it apart, there are capacitors inside and they will bite real hard if you touch them, there was a group of voltage regulators and half of them were burnt, I called the manufacture and talked to their customer service and right off the bat the guy tells me I voided the warranty by opening the unit, I told him no problem cuz its out of warranty, I just wanted their thoughts on why the failure, this guy sent me to the sales department an they asked for pictures and they gave me a partial credit for a new one, if you are not comfortable opening the converter than take it to a shop and have them open it up, it might be a loose screw or who knows and when the generator is running and I guess the converter is located close to the generator the vibrations of the generator might be affecting a connection in the converter, I am a retired Operating Engineer Field Cat Mechanic, I had to learn to work on generators years ago, they had a Cat Diesel so as a mechanic I had to work on them, when Cat went electronic, I had to learn to be a computer Geek to be able to trouble shoot breakdowns, I had to add a lap top to my tool box, one of the problems that popped up on a job one time was all the electronic fault codes I was getting on several of the machines and I was pulling hair, finially got on the phone with Catapiller and explained all the problems and he asked if the machines were being parked any where near some big power lines and and I said yea they are right underneath them, we moved the parking area and all the problems went away, the EMF from the power lines was affecting the computers on the machines
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:35 AM   #64
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 29m
State: California
Posts: 164
THOR #16201
Well....I ordered the same exact same converter from Amazon that I had in the motorhome. I replaced the old converter with the new one and it works perfect. No issues whatsoever. I run all the lights both air conditioners and turn the USE/STORE switch in the STORE position and everything works perfect. Thanks for everyone's help and al came out well.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:17 AM   #65
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2013 ACE 30.1
State: Alberta
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THOR #2631
Glad you are back in business again. It would be interesting to find out why the OEM unit failed. Maybe the manufacturer (or some local electronics tech) would repair it for a few $ and you would have a spare unit? You have learned an amazing amount about your coach working on this trouble. Never stop learning.
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:03 PM   #66
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 29m
State: California
Posts: 164
THOR #16201
I am going to contact the manufacture and send it back. Maybe they will find the problem. You are correct about the learning aspect. Your warranty only lasts a certain amount of time and in my location places to work on this thing is few and far between. Its always better to work on your own things as you will always do a better job because you are the one that owns it. I am not knocking any places that work on other peoples equipment but skilled labor workers are always working with time restraints and are usually a flat rate time.

I have learned a valuable amount of information and I owe it all to the fine members on this forum. When you own a motorhome you will always have issues as they cram so much stuff in so little spaces. Everyone is not an expert and a person does not know everything. This is when a person relies on other people for help and guidance. This is just one of many issues I am sure I will encounter with our motorhome in our quest for having fun and getting away. Thanks you all for the support and an excellent forum.
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