Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Maintenance and Repair
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-24-2022, 08:08 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE
State: Virginia
Posts: 7
THOR #19875
House Batteries - totally confused!

Iím not experienced at this, even though I have had coach since new. Original house batteries in my 2018 ACE 29.4 apparently toast. Keep coach connected to 50 amp service at home. While de-winterizing, unplugged shore power and didnít have enough power to start generator! Used emergency start cross connect and fired up generator. Jumped on here to research which resulted in fog and confusion! OK, AGM a must/minimum, check. 100ah good (X2) to cover quiet time, check. Start looking to buyÖ.Walmart, Amazon, auto zone, etc. WowÖ.overwhelmed. Size, shapeÖIím not a cheapskate, but donít need gold platingÖ.I think. I donít get to use my rig a lot. Only one long trip 2,000 miles round trip to date. Mostly close by (breed field and show dogs) with at least 20 amp shore power. So looking for battery recommendations for dummies.

__________________
Tmgsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2022, 08:22 PM   #2
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 12,731
THOR #7035
Did you have your USE/STORE switch in USE while connected to SP? If not, those house batteries were not charging.
Did you check the battery water levels? If plates uncovered they're probably toast as you described. A must check maintenance item for Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) batteries.

But some don't want to be bothered with that level check. If so, go for the AGMs. For your ACE, two group 31 AGMs will fit and be the best bang for the buck. AHs may vary slightly from brand to brand but expect 100 to 120 AH per battery. Lotsa people here are satisfied with the VMAX AGMs:

Here's a pack of two 120 AH for $630, shipping included:

https://www.amazon.com/MR137-120-Bat...dp/B01MSCEGPJ/
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2022, 09:39 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE
State: Virginia
Posts: 7
THOR #19875
I really hate the use/store switch. Terrible deign. A simple DPDT with labels would be so much better. As it is, the sure way to be certain you are in use is to pull shore, shut down generator and see if the red light stays on! BTW, does your microwave and any of the 110 outlets run off house batteries? My range hood fan and light work, furnace, etc., but canít make coffee unless I plug in to the chassis 110 outlet in front passenger seat/laptop area. Also, my house batteries are maintenance free, no water to fill.

Really appreciate your help.
__________________
Tmgsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2022, 10:13 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 4,999
THOR #13058
Lot of things here.
Welcome to site
4 years may be normal that the battery is toast based on how it has been used, charged down etc.?

4 years of RV ownership says you have been doing something right
Put a green dot on the side of Use switch that you know is on, and it will be simple.

I am fairly certain a 29.4 comes with Inverter, if you don't know where it is sored, I would get with Thor, W/O Diagram the best way to know what run off of it, is to turn everything on and see what goes off when you only have Inverter on, Likely media center, various outlets throughout the coach, all TVs and external fridge are only things wired to it.

I concur with batteries recommended, try calling Vmax Tank direct, tell them you want the SLRs 125 amp-hrs Group 31

Not sure who told you the AGS would have helped in this case? If RV was stored AGS should be off, and use switch should be off. If you wish to keep RV active; then yes plug in shore, and put switch back to Use.

Also, not sure why you unplug to dewinterize?
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2022, 10:32 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Winnebago Travato 59G
State: Alabama
Posts: 4,831
THOR #6826
If you were happy with the batteries youíve had the cheapest and easiest thing to do will be to simply replace them with the same size flooded batteries. The same size AGM will require less maintenance but will cost more and probably wonít last any longer. It sounds like you donít do a lot of boondocks camping so perhaps there is no real incentive to purchase bigger. 4-5 years is a pretty good run for any batteries.
__________________
Pete'sMH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2022, 11:01 PM   #6
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 12,731
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmgsteve View Post
I really hate the use/store switch. Terrible deign. A simple DPDT with labels would be so much better. As it is, the sure way to be certain you are in use is to pull shore, shut down generator and see if the red light stays on! BTW, does your microwave and any of the 110 outlets run off house batteries? My range hood fan and light work, furnace, etc., but canít make coffee unless I plug in to the chassis 110 outlet in front passenger seat/laptop area. Also, my house batteries are maintenance free, no water to fill.

Really appreciate your help.
Well the USE/STORE switch is really just a control switch for a simple SPST latching relay battery disconnect; a DPDT switch isn't needed and I don't know of many that will handle the load required through the latching relay.

Ignore the little LED - it is not an indicator of the position of the latching relay - it just indicates the 12 VDC house buss has power. That power can come from either the house batteries or the converter.

If you want to simplify things, leave your latching relay closed (in USE) and install a manual battery disconnect on your house batteries. Should be no confusion as to that manual disconnect status.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2022, 11:34 PM   #7
Site Team
 
EA37TS's Avatar
 
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,390
THOR #1469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmgsteve View Post
I really hate the use/store switch. Terrible deign. A simple DPDT with labels would be so much better. As it is, the sure way to be certain you are in use is to pull shore, shut down generator and see if the red light stays on! BTW, does your microwave and any of the 110 outlets run off house batteries? My range hood fan and light work, furnace, etc., but canít make coffee unless I plug in to the chassis 110 outlet in front passenger seat/laptop area. Also, my house batteries are maintenance free, no water to fill.

Really appreciate your help.
My Entegra has it right. First, it is labeled Main Power. Second one switch on or off. When on red light illuminates. When off the only power available is through the inverter which is wired to the batteries.

Click image for larger version

Name:	AD0FB427-BDA8-4DF5-B67C-5E3ADF64DE2B.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	161.6 KB
ID:	36608
__________________
EA37TS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 02:34 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
RACarvalho's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2021 Hurricane 34R
State: Indiana
Posts: 516
THOR #19887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmgsteve View Post
I’m not experienced at this, even though I have had coach since new. Original house batteries in my 2018 ACE 29.4 apparently toast. Keep coach connected to 50 amp service at home. While de-winterizing, unplugged shore power and didn’t have enough power to start generator! Used emergency start cross connect and fired up generator. Jumped on here to research which resulted in fog and confusion! OK, AGM a must/minimum, check. 100ah good (X2) to cover quiet time, check. Start looking to buy….Walmart, Amazon, auto zone, etc. Wow….overwhelmed. Size, shape…I’m not a cheapskate, but don’t need gold plating….I think. I don’t get to use my rig a lot. Only one long trip 2,000 miles round trip to date. Mostly close by (breed field and show dogs) with at least 20 amp shore power. So looking for battery recommendations for dummies.
I just installed 3 of these:
https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR27-110-...ery_p_175.html
They are really good and this is what I consider minimum for an RV.
RACarvalho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 03:11 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Model: 25.2 Axis
State: Arizona
Posts: 838
THOR #3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by RACarvalho View Post
I just installed 3 of these:
https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR27-110-...ery_p_175.html
They are really good and this is what I consider minimum for an RV.


200 pounds heavy
__________________
Hugh.vines@att.net is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 11:09 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
RACarvalho's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2021 Hurricane 34R
State: Indiana
Posts: 516
THOR #19887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh.vines@att.net View Post
200 pounds heavy
While this sounds heavy, it is only 0.9% of my 22000 GVWR and the sticker says I do have 3900+ lbs of payload capacity....

I did consider and was willing to move to Lithium but I decided for AGMs for the following reasons:

1 - Use vs Cost:
Lithium is way more expensive and I would have to change the converter, dump the BIM, install a DCtoDC charger and find and install a relay to keep the emergency function. I was willing to do that until I consider the cost and work involved versus what I really need: We don't do boomdock, only Walmart overnights ! So to me it looked too much $ and a lot of work that is not really needed... Better to put that $ and effort in other mods!!!
2 - Temperature:
Early in Spring and late in Fall we do camp in freezing temperatures.
The battery bay in our MH is made of steel and it is open to the environment which means the batteries do have possibility to be frozen and lithium really don't perform when is frozen. In our last trip we got lower 20s and had to run the furnace at night. The draw that night was a total of 117ah in total for the overnight and the AGMs performed flawlessly.
If I had installed the 200ah Lithium I had planned, I would be concerned if the batteries would deliver 60% of their stated capacity under those circunstances. I don't want another concern while I'm on vacation.
To solve that concern I would have to bring the batteries inside the MH but since my floorplan have opposite slides this would be an even more complicated intervention and then we get back to point 1...

The reason I stated those are minimum is because I consider our use (117ah overnight when it is freezing outside) to be the minimum you can expect w/o turning the genny overnight.
We do turn the genny on in the morning to do coffee and use the microwave for breakfast but thats it.
As a data point, the other night we overnight at Walmart and didn't have to use the furnace the draw was around 65ah so completely within the 50% capacity of the 330ah bank of AGMs and easy/fast to recharge since as soon as we turned on the engine the BIM connected the batteries and the alternator started to dump 40A into the house batteries!!!
RACarvalho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 12:50 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Citation
State: Texas
Posts: 920
THOR #8139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete'sMH View Post
If you were happy with the batteries you’ve had the cheapest and easiest thing to do will be to simply replace them with the same size flooded batteries. The same size AGM will require less maintenance but will cost more and probably won’t last any longer. It sounds like you don’t do a lot of boondocks camping so perhaps there is no real incentive to purchase bigger. 4-5 years is a pretty good run for any batteries.
"4-5 years is a pretty good run for any batteries."

Sure wish ALL my 12v batteries over the decades would have lasted that long
__________________
"I just want to find eleven thousand seven hundred and eighty
DJT votes"
abjbrtd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 01:18 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Windsport 27K
State: Kentucky
Posts: 880
THOR #2817
I replaced the two OEM batteries in our Windsport with two AGM batteries from Batteries Plus Bulbs. They were expensive, but are working well. The RV is stored more than it is used. I do not plug it into shore power while being stored. I turn off the store/use switch (it is labeled store and use). I also put a battery disconnect switch on the negative side of the two coach batteries. An AGM specific maintainer is attached to the two AGM batteries and a flooded lead acid battery maintainer is attached to the chassis battery.
__________________
Metalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 01:50 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
The Gritz Carlton's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Florida
Posts: 5,561
THOR #11130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete'sMH View Post
If you were happy with the batteries youíve had the cheapest and easiest thing to do will be to simply replace them with the same size flooded batteries. The same size AGM will require less maintenance but will cost more and probably wonít last any longer. It sounds like you donít do a lot of boondocks camping so perhaps there is no real incentive to purchase bigger. 4-5 years is a pretty good run for any batteries.

^^^Perfectly explained...I got 4 years out of my flooded twin 6 volts. Replaced them with 2 new flooded Trojans. I check water levels once a month like clock work as I run generator for cocktail hour. Most premature battery issues are due to lack of maintenance. If it worked well for that long...why change??
__________________
Now an SOB
Traded Thor for Melbourne Prestige 24NP
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
Blondie passed in 2020 at 5 to Leukemia
The Gritz Carlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 03:55 PM   #14
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 22,195
THOR #8860
I just had to put a pair of AGM Batteries in my Tiffin.
I had size 27s in there (FLA); but 31s fit perfectly!
No more worrying about water levels!
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2022, 11:01 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
dkoldman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 4,999
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh.vines@att.net View Post
200 pounds heavy
Actually those Max tanks recommended above are only 137 lbs for two. You would then need to deduct the OEM batteries weight so you might only be talking 40 lbs more.

The vMax tanks I bought were 75lbs each so that is 150 lbs
https://www.vmaxtanks.com/SLR125-12V...tery_p_38.html

But these batteries last twice as long. I do agree with what Pete said above that this user may not need AGM, but I find a lot of irony that so many people seem to not worry about price of gas but some find it practical to a money saver to buy FLAs. I dumped my perfectively good FLA because I just wanted more AH ( OP does not seem to need) and the corrosion that ruining the floor and concrete of my new RV.

I am about as cheap as they come, but a FLA is something I will never ever buy for my RV. I take that back, I don't think I have had any issue with my Chassis FLA, it has been 2 1/2 years and it does not and will not get any water from me. So depending on when it dies I will decide. I just know it never corrodes and starts like a champ every time If it goes another 1 1/2 years...then when it dies; I will compare the cost of OEM FLA replacement to a new AGM and decide. If it died today, it would be AGM without a 2nd thought.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
dkoldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 01:38 AM   #16
Junior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE
State: Virginia
Posts: 7
THOR #19875
Thanks for all the info and advice. Realize now that I have never truly dry camped, always had access to shore power. Only now finding out what the house batteries can power, or doesnít power. Battery life issue aside (solve following provided advice), Iíve found that the microwave and 110 outlets have no power when on battery. TVs, furnace etc. work. Is this the way it is supposed to work in ACE 29.4?
__________________
Tmgsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 01:48 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
MJC62's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: A.C.E. 27.2
State: Indiana
Posts: 1,661
THOR #14698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmgsteve View Post
Thanks for all the info and advice. Realize now that I have never truly dry camped, always had access to shore power. Only now finding out what the house batteries can power, or doesnít power. Battery life issue aside (solve following provided advice), Iíve found that the microwave and 110 outlets have no power when on battery. TVs, furnace etc. work. Is this the way it is supposed to work in ACE 29.4?
TV's? Our ACE is a 2018 27.2 no TV's on the house batteries. They are on the 110 circuits (shore power or generator). Furnace WILL operate on house batteries as the furnace blower is 12 volts.
__________________
2018 ACE 27.2
Toad 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
Roadmaster Falcon All Terrain Towbar
Roadmaster Invisibrake
MJC62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 02:55 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Windsport 27K
State: Kentucky
Posts: 880
THOR #2817
For your TVs and 120-volt outlets to work from the batteries you would need an inverter. I suspect only larger RVs have an inverter big enough for a microwave.
__________________
Metalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 03:03 AM   #19
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 12,731
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmgsteve View Post
Thanks for all the info and advice. Realize now that I have never truly dry camped, always had access to shore power. Only now finding out what the house batteries can power, or doesnít power. Battery life issue aside (solve following provided advice), Iíve found that the microwave and 110 outlets have no power when on battery. TVs, furnace etc. work. Is this the way it is supposed to work in ACE 29.4?
The only way your TVs work when "on battery" is if you have an inverter that powers them. If you have a residential fridge then Thor installed an inverter to power it from the batteries and also connected the TV outlets - standard practice.

If you do have a residential fridge and inverter and you plan to do any dry camping in the future (i.e National Parks), then get the largest AH batteries you willing to spend money on.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 07:29 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Scubawise's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 25.6
State: New Mexico
Posts: 4,475
THOR #20220
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Did you have your USE/STORE switch in USE while connected to SP? If not, those house batteries were not charging.
Did you check the battery water levels? If plates uncovered they're probably toast as you described. A must check maintenance item for Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) batteries.

But some don't want to be bothered with that level check. If so, go for the AGMs. For your ACE, two group 31 AGMs will fit and be the best bang for the buck. AHs may vary slightly from brand to brand but expect 100 to 120 AH per battery. Lotsa people here are satisfied with the VMAX AGMs:

Here's a pack of two 120 AH for $630, shipping included:

https://www.amazon.com/MR137-120-Bat...dp/B01MSCEGPJ/

Vmax will ship cheaper and free shipping and fix anything with battery they claim...I am thrilled
__________________
Scubawise is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 09:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2