Just when I felt bad about being to harsh in my critique of Thor...

[Summerwind]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Speak for yourself: Especially computer... I have a non-zero number of Raspberry PI's and other assorted computer equipment that I've modified, etc.

Lol JamieGeek hahahah
I believe
Like my commodors and 8082 I have still lol
As I get older though I prefer to spend my time doing other stuff

Different strokes, as long as the rv is marketed as such and is stamped dyi

Not to hijack the the thread, now back to the quality issue...
I hate to be so cynical, but
CHOICE 2 HAVE the hundreds of claims and warranty issues not told them something?
Reading the forum or calls to customer service?
I think sending more 'proof' is stalling
Besides are they gonna pay you to compile and send?
As the OP said, they are already aware of the issue and it is profitable for them to handle issues as they have been

[gmtech16450yz]

Originally Posted by Summerwind

Lol JamieGeek hahahah
I believe
Like my commodors and 8082 I have still lol
As I get older though I prefer to spend my time doing other stuff

Different strokes, as long as the rv is marketed as such and is stamped dyi

Not to hijack the the thread, now back to the quality issue...
I hate to be so cynical, but
CHOICE 2 HAVE the hundreds of claims and warranty issues not told them something?
Reading the forum or calls to customer service?
I think sending more 'proof' is stalling
Besides are they gonna pay you to compile and send?
As the OP said, they are already aware of the issue and it is profitable for them to handle issues as they have been

Totally agree with both of these points. My wife even said "Don't you wish you could have bought this motorhome as a kit?" Absolutely. I would have gladly put it together myself from a box of parts. haha.

On the buying things to use vs. to work on subject... This has been touched on a couple times in this forum lately so I wanted to comment. It seems that some people are very worried about voiding warranties or modifying something without the manufacturers "permission". This is very much a "different strokes for different folks" thing. I personally often buy things not for what they are, but for what they can be. That's exactly what was going through my mind when I bought the Vegas. I knew it had issues even before I bought it. I also knew I could make it into exactly what I wanted with some money and time. I do not regret our purchase, and am thrilled with what I've ended up with after 4 months of time and money invested into it. I'm ok with the time and money spent, we simply factored it in to the price before we even bought the Vegas. No surprises, no regrets. Only disappointment as I've already said.

So for ME, I couldn't care less about voiding the warranty. Think about it, using the warranty would mean I'd turn my vehicle over to some dumbsh!t to f it up worse than the factory did. No thanks. This RV, as with ALL of my other vehicles, will NEVER see a dealership repair facility. I'm not asking for any warranty help from Thor. I fixed all their screw ups myself. They made mistakes once, I'd be an idiot to let them make the same mistakes a second time.

I understand and can appreciate the idea of wanting to buy something and be able to use it without issues or having to repair or modify it yourself. It's just not the way everyone thinks about it. Otherwise there wouldn't be a multi billion dollar aftermarket parts and accessories industry. And honestly, many of the factory innovations on vehicles, including RV's, come from people not being content to leave well enough alone. I bought a brand new $50k car about a year ago. Before it even had it's first oil change I replaced the cam and valve springs, gutted the interior to sound proof and build a new stereo into, and built an entire new exhaust system for it. You think I was worried about voiding the warranty? lol. Nope.

[Summerwind]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

On the buying things to use vs. to work on bought the Vegas. No surprises, no regrets. Only disappointment as I've already said.


I understand and can appreciate the idea of wanting to buy something and be able to use it without issues or having to repair or modify it yourself. It's just not the way everyone thinks about it. Otherwise there wouldn't be a multi billion dollar aftermarket parts and accessories industry. And honestly, many of the factory innovations on vehicles, including RV's, come from people not being content to leave well enough alone. I bought a brand new $50k car about a year ago. Before it even had it's first oil change I replaced the cam and valve springs, gutted the interior to sound proof and build a new stereo into, and built an entire new exhaust system for it. You think I was worried about voiding the warranty? lol. Nope.

I'm glad you don't regret the purchase!
Hmmm
The voiding a separate isaue
For me, at a min it should work as intended. Period.
Everything. Like the aforementioned table.
So if I have the time and inclination to modify I start with that ONLY$
WHAT I MEAN TO SAY IS
if I CHOSE to replace the sofa with recliners, that is all I'm having to do and not REBUILD THE FLOORING AND WIRING AROUND the sofa or repair what should be good what I purchased and not having to redo( with extra time and money ) someone's substandard work that was supposed to be good from the get go. It should be MY choice
Modifications meh
That's a separate issue I suppose.
I never really cared a flip if it voids as you say, but
THE COACH AND ITEMS IN IT AS IS SHOULD WORK AND PERFORM WITHOUT FAIL
Because that's the way it was sold and marketed to me
Again, not a dyi again it should be my choice upfront

[gmtech16450yz]

Yeah, I totally agree. It obviously should work as intended. More than a few dozen items in our brand new RV did not work as intended. That's disappointing.

[Summerwind]

But you have a way better attitude than I would have
I buy the Motorhomes to see places on vacation
Intended use
While Elkhart may be a great place to visit, there are other places I would like to see
Again I want it to be my choice not a Have to
I'm too short on time as the other thread pointed out most growner up folks like to stay close to home for shorter periods away.
Whether by choice or for responsibilities
And BTW no one is compensating me for my time effort inconvenience or mileage wear and tear on coach to take it someplace I chose not to if I would rather be on vacay

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Summerwind

But you have a way better attitude than I would have
I buy the Motorhomes to see places on vacation
Intended use
While Elkhart may be a great place to visit, there are other places I would like to see
Again I want it to be my choice not a Have to
I'm too short on time as the other thread pointed out most growner up folks like to stay close to home for shorter periods away.
Whether by choice or for responsibilities
And BTW no one is compensating me for my time effort inconvenience or mileage wear and tear on coach to take it someplace I chose not to if I would rather be on vacay

Understood; my coach has only seen a service bay twice in my ownership: Once right after we bought it for about a week (fixed the bathroom door, and the wiring to the 7-wire trailer plug), and last year I had it at Wakarusa for the window leak where it spent 3 days.

The Wakarusa trip wasn't a hassle for me as they are only 3 hours away and I only needed to use 1 vacation day.

Other than that my mods have been done at the storage lot, in our driveway or while we're camping (of which we've put about 14k miles on it in the past 3 years). So we're out vacationing, seeing things, using it, in a few weeks we will be seeing a baseball game at MLB park #26 of 30, then a few days later #27 via the RV.

[Summerwind]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Understood; my coach has only seen a service bay twice in my ownership: Once right after we bought it for about a week (fixed the bathroom door, and the wiring to the 7-wire trailer plug), and last year I had it at Wakarusa for the window leak where it spent 3 days.

The Wakarusa trip wasn't a hassle for me as they are only 3 hours away and I only needed to use 1 vacation day.

Other than that my mods have been done at the storage lot, in our driveway or while we're camping (of which we've put about 14k miles on it in the past 3 years). So we're out vacationing, seeing things, using it, in a few weeks we will be seeing a baseball game at MLB park #26 of 30, then a few days later #27 via the RV.

Yay Jamie Geek!
You may or may not be the outlier?!
I can only speak for me as a newbie, but I joined the forum to get advice on floorplans rv care etc
Not to bash thor or rvs
Admittedly the factory is close for you and not a prob
But what about the rest of the country?
Plus the time, since it wasn't a choice, the rv had a prob so you had to go but you could be doing something else with your time or you worked to save up for the rv and didn't have vacation days (lol you used yours picking up the rv when you purchased it) what if the vehicle was for family and you also used vacation for their illness?
What about us that not only want the rv but need it for a vehicle purpose and don't have the tools or skills but mostly the TIME to troubleshoot?
I can't speak for the whole country but I can just say to gamble this amount of money and time on this, you have to admit, to hear these stories is scary!
I think the stories would be different if people just bashed Thor
You might be tempted to say it is competition etc but these seem to be genuinely disappointed people.
PS but I have had sales peeps that sell Thor tell me and when I mentioned another brand, they encouraged it over thor
Bottom line
I'm happy for the peeps, like You, and sad for the peeps with prob that have to waste time on them or worse yet have to fight to achieve resolution

[halfprice]

Im like jamie in that ive only taken my 29m to the dealer one time for very minor warranty work.

Let me say that i am not a mechanic and i have very little mechanical skills. If fact i think the last time i ever changed the oil in my car was 40 years ago when i was 18.

What i do have is the smarts to be able the read and follow instructions and watch youtube videos on how to fix or maintain things.

I bought the mh right after i retired. I decided to do as much work on the mh as i could, mainly because im a cheap bastard, and let the dealer do what i couldnt. So far i havent needed them. I had to buy some basic tools thats it.

When i decided to crawl under the mh to do the chf i was so intimidated i stopped. Finally after crawling under it three times i finally did it.

Maybe im lucky that my mh hasnt had any problems. Maybe it's because i am alway looking at things inside and under possibly fixing something before it really breaks. I dont know.

I do believe that people complaim more than praise. Thor sells thousands of mh. The internet, this forum, and others is a good place to complain. I think there are way more people happy with their mh than unhappy

Jerry

[Bob Denman]

Since I'm blessed with all of the mechanical skills of a hamster : we're keeping our fingers crossed...


...And looking for a place where they understand what "quality service" actually means.

[RV Pirate]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

...We have this happen the very first time we tried to actually eat at our dinette table...





Really Thor? Really? 16 screws and not a single one into the framing. Might as well be mounted to cardboard. It looks like the guy just kept ramming screws into it hoping to find something solid, and never did. Oh well, hurry up and send it down the line quick!

I felt a little bad about making a wrong assumption in another thread, and jumping on Thor's assembly practices when in that ONE situation it wasn't warranted.

But I don't feel bad anymore. The assembly quality IS abhorrent. My wife said this morning "This is the most poorly built product I have ever encountered in my entire life. And that includes products from China." I totally agree. I would have been extremely unhappy if our entire spaghetti dinner slid onto my brand new $1200 carpeting. As it was, we had to carefully take everything off the table and put it down for the rest of the trip. My wife is now scared about the TV and cabinets and their mountings. I'll be taking those off (the TV's at least) to check to see if they're not actually going to fall on us either.

Speaking of the TV's, the TV over the dinette in the 27.7 isn't exactly user friendly. My wife and I hit our heads on the corners of it no less than 4 times! It sticks out way too far, there's no way 4 people could eat at that dinette without the corner of the TV being in two of the people's faces. It also covers way too much of the windows. Ideally I'm thinking I'd rather have one big picture window there and no TV. We'll see, I'm still tossing around what to do there. We know one thing, that TV can't stay there in that position.

BTW for those of you that are posting that you've had very few problems with your RV's, I think this is something that's getting way worse recently. Ours was built in December of last year. They've really ramped up production a little before and since then. Clearly, our coach was assembled WAY TOO QUICKLY.

A Thor representative reached out to me because of that other thread and wanted me to share my pictures of stuff like this with him. I'm still not sure I want to bother. Thor knows what quality level their assembly is at, they don't need me to tell them. I truly believe this is their business model right now. I think the only way it's going to change is either people stop buying them (not likely), they get hit with a hefty class action suit (also not likely) or somebody does a documentary on their shoddy and dangerous workmanship that gets plenty of airtime (what I think would be the best approach).

I'll throw a question in here for you guys... (Answer using the poll above.)

What exactly should I do with the hundreds of photos I have documenting poor assembly just like the ones of the table mounting above?

Choice #1- Should I just move on and not worry about Thor and how they're building these RV's for the next people that buy them?

Choice #2- Should I spend a bunch of time providing Thor with photos and explanations of what I found on our coach in the assumption that they'd actually do something about it?

Choice #3- Do I ask them for monetary compensation for the 4 months worth of work I've had to do to our coach to make sure it wasn't going to burst into flames, kill us or at the very least leave us stranded somewhere?

Choice #4- Or do I contact somebody at Netflix or elsewhere and work with them to make a documentary on the subject, including the economy of Elkhart Indiana specifically?

Maybe Start posting a pic every day on their Facebook page. I assume that they have one. Might also want to post them on any RV group pages on Facebook and tag Thor in the posts. Let them feel your pain.

[Tearstone]

I am so sorry to see this. Like you, I've had a lot of frustrations with some build issues, but this one is just plain careless. Thankfully, this is why the manufacturer provides the one year warranty.



Regardless of the manufacturer, I have found a lot of these tables to be a bit on the flimsly side. I prefer the table/chair style myself. I don't care if the dinette could be an extra bunk or not.


I believe that with the demand on RVs being so high right now, it is creating a new surge of buyers that are new to the RV industry and their accumulating taste of reliability will create a critical mass of accountability for these manufacturers.


From a business perspective, creating a reliable RV with quality craftsmanship is a great competitive advantage that could be seized upon right now.

[Calico]

I have to go with #2 also. As a business-owner, I know that if a customer/client of mine had an issue (or in your case, MANY issues) with my product, and I reached out to them in an attempt to make it right, and they still elevated the complaint by going to the media or other outlets to make everything public.... well, I'd be less willing to help them out in the long run.
Thor is reaching out to you; take your coach to them and tell them to keep it until it is the coach you thought it was when you bought it. Ask them for a loaner, since summer is upon us! You never know! But do let them try to make things right. ALL coaches have issues and ALL issues can be fixed.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Calico

I have to go with #2 also. As a business-owner, I know that if a customer/client of mine had an issue (or in your case, MANY issues) with my product, and I reached out to them in an attempt to make it right, and they still elevated the complaint by going to the media or other outlets to make everything public.... well, I'd be less willing to help them out in the long run.

I agree! Never let folks do your laundry in public! It's much better, when it's handled in-house, and not out on the internet...

[gmtech16450yz]

Originally Posted by Calico

I have to go with #2 also. As a business-owner, I know that if a customer/client of mine had an issue (or in your case, MANY issues) with my product, and I reached out to them in an attempt to make it right, and they still elevated the complaint by going to the media or other outlets to make everything public.... well, I'd be less willing to help them out in the long run.
Thor is reaching out to you; take your coach to them and tell them to keep it until it is the coach you thought it was when you bought it. Ask them for a loaner, since summer is upon us! You never know! But do let them try to make things right. ALL coaches have issues and ALL issues can be fixed.

I totally agree IF I wanted Thor to "fix" my RV. No one but me will ever lay a single screwdriver on my RV. I'm not asking for Thor to come to my rescue. I don't need their help, they've "helped" enough already. lol.

It's interesting that not a single person voted for me to just move on. I put that choice first because I thought it would be the most popular approach, just move on and enjoy my RV and my life. The biggest reason I'm thinking about NOT doing that is what I mentioned in choice #1, that there are potential new owners out there that will also suffer from Thor's business model. It's kind of like being raped. (almost literally actually. haha.) I strongly believe if a woman is raped and she doesn't say anything, she is partially responsible for that rapist's next victim.

The problem is what I've mentioned, I don't actually believe this is "fixable". By me at least. This is a business model that isn't new, and is getting prevalent in our country. It's a model that obviously was huge in China, I think even they are learning that you can't turn out total junk forever. My wife and I compared the assembly quality of this Vegas to ANY product we've had that was assembled in China and we both agreed this Vegas is worse than anything we've seen. I've said several times, I truly believe the assembly quality would be BETTER if it was built in China. That's the sad part. Is this how American workers want to be, take the big cash bonuses for working too fast and not care?

[gmtech16450yz]

I guess I should have added a couple words to Choice #2...

Should I spend a bunch of time providing Thor with photos and explanations of what I found on our coach in the assumption that they'd actually do something about it FOR THE NEXT GUY OR NEXT COACH THEY BUILD?

Sorry I didn't make it more clear. I wouldn't be providing these pictures in an effort to get Thor to do any warranty work for ME. I made that clear to the Thor representative, I'd simply be providing photo documentation of assembly problems in an effort to help them make a better product IN THE FUTURE.

The issues are about my Vegas in particular. What to do about it doesn't really have anything to do with my Vegas in particular. It's more of a moral, karma or consulting issue. I've been paid to consult and do failure/crash analysis in my career before, it's something I'm well versed in doing. In this case, it's just a matter of IF I want to bother beating my head against the wall or not. lol.

[Bob Denman]

Are you feeling a bit like Don Quixote?

[Summerwind]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

I guess I should have added a couple words to Choice #2..
Snip
beating my head against the wall or not. lol.

I caught it!
You are trying to help people like me
I go back to my. / YOUR original assumption
They (Thor) have already received multiple hundreds of warranty claims at this point over the past at least several years.
They are aware,either they can't find trainable people, their training program sux, they are willing to take any breathing body to assemble these coaches, and/or this is so profitable, why mess with spending extra money because what you are doing is okay anyway?
They are not going to pay you as a consultant, likely won't make a difference so why waste YOUR time?

[Hooligan2]

Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz

So for ME, I couldn't care less about voiding the warranty. .... This RV, as with ALL of my other vehicles, will NEVER see a dealership repair facility. I'm not asking for any warranty help from Thor. I fixed all their screw ups myself. They made mistakes once, I'd be an idiot to let them make the same mistakes a second time.
.

Choice 5- You have problems with your RV, and apparently the dealer and THOR are willing to address them, but don't let them do it because you want to fix it yourself.

[airforceret]

With so many people blaming Camping World and various other dealerships why not displace the blame on them while they continue to build crap and dump it on the market, then when you call to complain about the dealers they are all of sudden your new best friend. They never did agree to correct all of my issues so I chose not to get any of it fixed. I've got 12,000 miles on my 2018 and will add a few more thousand yet this year and everywhere I go I use my unit to show people what kind of crap they can expect from Thor. Sure they all produce lemons... but I'm using my story to hopefully get buyers to buy someone else's lemon... not a THOR! #ThorLacksIntegrity

[Summerwind]

Originally Posted by airforceret

Snipped

. Sure they all produce lemons... but I'm using my story to hopefully get buyers to buy someone else's lemon... not a THOR! #ThorLacksIntegrity

Is this an excuse?
I hear that a lot but didn't work with my Father
Well my brother rode the lawnmower to town I can too!

Just cuz everyone is doing it doesn't make it so
And peeps here bought thors so forget what others manufacturers do and clean up your own house
#character
I get angry when standards are lowered