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Old 05-10-2022, 01:09 PM   #1
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Lithium battery fires.

Not sure about larger lithium’s but their have been reports out of New York about ebike lithium battery fires. Appears batteries may overheat and catch fire while charging.

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Old 05-10-2022, 02:31 PM   #2
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looks like lower quality/cheap batteries

https://www.curbed.com/2022/01/ebike...-stations.html

Of course right after posting I continue reading to find a Rad Power bike battery exploding LOL.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:52 PM   #3
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Wife just got me a Lectric bike a couple months ago. Guess I better check on the battery "history". I know certain chemistries are prone to runaway combustion.
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Old 05-10-2022, 03:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
Wife just got me a Lectric bike a couple months ago. Guess I better check on the battery "history". I know certain chemistries are prone to runaway combustion.
It is also construction. Prismatic cells are much more likely to have a problem than cylindrical cells.

Prismatic cells are made up of many positive and negative electrodes sandwiched together leaving more possibility for short circuit and inconsistency. The higher capacity makes it difficult for the BMS to protect each cell from over charging and dissipating heat. The larger cell size minimizes the possibility for automation leading to a lower degree of consistency. The internal electrodes can easily expand and contract causing deformation which can lead to a internal short circuit and are more prone to swelling similar to lead batteries.
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Old 05-10-2022, 04:42 PM   #5
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I thought someone here said the batteries in our coaches are a different chemistry than the Lithiums that catch fire easily.

Something like slightly less of a "punch" but great for our applications.

Can someone confirm that?
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Old 05-10-2022, 04:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dg0603 View Post
I thought someone here said the batteries in our coaches are a different chemistry than the Lithiums that catch fire easily.

Something like slightly less of a "punch" but great for our applications.

Can someone confirm that?
Yes - those are lithium-ion batteries.

We use LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries in vehicles which are way less prone to fire while charging.
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Old 05-10-2022, 05:02 PM   #7
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If Ace says it, you can believe it.

Thank you sir. That's what I thought.
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Old 05-10-2022, 06:48 PM   #8
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The reason the LFP batteries are used in RVs is their cell output is 3.2 volts where as the typical lithium cobalt ion battery has and output of 3.8 volts. When compared to a lead acid battery's cell output of 2.12 volts, (to get to 12.8 volts which is what a typical RV uses), you need 6 x 2.12 volts cell (12.72 volts) or 4 LFP cells at 3.2 volts each (12.8 volts). You can not get to 12.8 volts using multiples of 3.8 volts per cell.
What makes the typical RV LFP batteries safe is they have a very smart (and expensive) battery management system (BMS). Its job is to monitor each cell individually and take it out of the battery cell train if the BMS detects any problems with its temperature or current profile. LFP batteries of less than 15 amp-h seldom have a sophisticated BMS.
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Old 05-10-2022, 07:20 PM   #9
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I have recently discovered Lipo fire protection bags for batteries.
I have my doubts, but it's a thing.
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Old 05-10-2022, 07:39 PM   #10
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Great info. I'd hate to think we're all sitting on crazy batteries.
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Old 05-10-2022, 08:21 PM   #11
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Couple of busses in France left the fleet

Good info Beau, always interesting
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Old 05-11-2022, 12:10 AM   #12
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Aren't battery fires the reason for the Chevy Volt recall? I seem to recall back in the 2000 teens that lithium ion batteries in laptops were catching fire and exploding. There are a lot of internet hits for lithium battery fires, so it seems likely there is that one in ten million chance that if you have lithium ion batteries in your RV, they could catch fire.
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Old 05-11-2022, 12:59 AM   #13
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Aren't battery fires the reason for the Chevy Volt recall? I seem to recall back in the 2000 teens that lithium ion batteries in laptops were catching fire and exploding. There are a lot of internet hits for lithium battery fires, so it seems likely there is that one in ten million chance that if you have lithium ion batteries in your RV, they could catch fire.
Bolt not Volt.

The Bolt recall was due to improperly assembled batteries causing a short.
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Old 05-11-2022, 02:34 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JamieGeek View Post
Bolt not Volt.

The Bolt recall was due to improperly assembled batteries causing a short.
https://www.4injured.com/blog/after-...cle-ever-made/ This article states that virtually every electric car Chevy has ever made is recalled.
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Old 05-11-2022, 11:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt Keefer View Post
https://www.4injured.com/blog/after-...cle-ever-made/ This article states that virtually every electric car Chevy has ever made is recalled.
Not correct: Every Bolt (2017-2022).

Right from the source:
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:07 AM   #16
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Li House Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS View Post
Not sure about larger lithiumís but their have been reports out of New York about ebike lithium battery fires. Appears batteries may overheat and catch fire while charging.
Why not to use regular car batteries? They are cheap and very reliable. They have no memory. Remember that Li batteries will take about 1000 charges. Every time you start you MH it is one charge. How many times would you do it daily. Every time you plug it in it is one charge....

I don't see any logical justification to go Lithium
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Old 05-15-2022, 07:06 AM   #17
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Why not to use regular car batteries? They are cheap and very reliable. They have no memory. Remember that Li batteries will take about 1000 charges. Every time you start you MH it is one charge. How many times would you do it daily. Every time you plug it in it is one charge....

I don't see any logical justification to go Lithium
Regular car battery will last a short time if you deep discharge it Frequently. Every time you plug it in is a cycle, but how deep the discharge affects the number of cycles. LiFePo4 (lithium iron phosphate) are good for at least 3 times that and can easily last 10 years even with deep (80 percent or more) discharge daily. They can be cheaper in the long haul and are nearly maintenance free. They offer higher capacity at the same size and half the weight.
Your justification is logical but very dated.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
Wife just got me a Lectric bike a couple months ago. Guess I better check on the battery "history". I know certain chemistries are prone to runaway combustion.
In the manual it states not to keep them in charge after the battery is fully charged. that most likely goes for all makes.

Avoid leaving the charger plugged in when the battery is fully charged.
Plug in a smart plug and use that to time you want it to charge then automatically shut off.

Kasa Smart HS100 WiFi Smart Plug, Classic 1-Pack, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0178IC734...ing=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 05-17-2022, 02:10 AM   #19
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I have lithium batteries for my RV airplanes. The charger I purchased charges, balances, and then stops charging. If the complete charge starts to drop more than 0.2V or the battery starts to swell some, I discharge and recycle them. I have seen people continue to use them and light up in their pockets as well as light up while flying. Your not suppose to carry them in your pocket. Thankfully the leads and connector was hanging out of the pocket and the battery was pulled prior to flaming. The construction of them is critical to the battery not internal shorting. A good mechanical shock can do internal damage. That is one of the causes that had Tesla car batteries light up.
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Old 05-17-2022, 09:17 AM   #20
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It all comes down to having a good BMS. I have BigBattery LiFePO'4 in my coach and this chart shows how their BMS and other designs prevent a catastrophic failure under most conditions. They even have built-in fire extinguishers in some of their models.
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