No electric power in MH

[BigDug 25.6]

Originally Posted by bulletbob

Scubawise, you asked for pic of ATS placement. See attached photos.


1. shows location of screws holding in my "magazine rack" After removing screws, the "magazine rack" was jammed in tight but did come out with little coaxing. I only put 2 screws in it (one on each side) when I closed it up the first time I removed it months ago. The two have held it in place without any issues.


2. shows "magazine rack" removed exposing fresh water holding tank.


3. shows location of ATS and water pump. You just about have to stand on your head to remove screws at four corners of ATS.


Hope these help.


Mike

This information will help us greatly, too!

Once it warms up & some snow melts, I need to install the Surge Guard and do some upgrades.

Erv

[MLP]

The quick flip tab connectors are nice, but will have the same problem with moisture. That is if moisture gets in. Being outside and in the rig it you cannot assume that it does not. Moisture creates an oxide on all metals except Gold. Oxides are not conductive. So over time it is building up a heating element. I seal all my wire nuts, screw on connections with GC Electronics Silicone Adhesive. This silicone is formulated not to attack and pit metal. It also stakes the fastener so that it will not come loose until you want it to.

I know you do not have a power cord reel, but if anyone does, you need to pull the cord out and remove the internal cover. Inspect the connections. They can and do loosen. Don't ask me why I know. I fixed mine in my old fifth wheel. One loose hot and a loose neutral. Once cleaned, and properly torqued, I sealed and staked the connections with GC Silicone.

[JimOIB]

We were awaken at 2AM this morning to smoke and every alarm in the coach going off. ATS went Tango Uniform. What a horrendous experience. I’m still assessing the situation. Not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Top right corner wire nut went poof.
Attachment 36042

[Metalman]

At the time when you had the problem, what devices were operating? Just wondering if you would using a heavy load on the 120 system?

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by jimbo12

We were awaken at 2AM this morning to smoke and every alarm in the coach going off. ATS went Tango Uniform. What a horrendous experience. I’m still assessing the situation. Not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Top right corner wire nut went poof.
Attachment 36042

[JimOIB]

Originally Posted by Metalman

At the time when you had the problem, what devices were operating? Just wondering if you would using a heavy load on the 120 system?

Quick calculations: GFCI circuit had 12.5A max with space heater, general receptacle circuit 1.35A max with CPAP, small fan, and cat heating pad. Appliance circuit 2.5A with fridge. HW heater circuit 11.7A. Plus some draw on DC circuits. Second day in camp. A hair above 28 amps if everything turned on at the same time. Not enough to trip the pedestal or coach 30 breaker. Not enough to burn open a 10awg wire. Should have NEVER melted a wire nut. It did and the design is unsafe. A weak link between two primary protection devices is an unsafe design.

[Metalman]

Originally Posted by jimbo12

Quick calculations: GFCI circuit had 12.5A max with space heater, general receptacle circuit 1.35A max with CPAP, small fan, and cat heating pad. Appliance circuit 2.5A with fridge. HW heater circuit 11.7A. Plus some draw on DC circuits. Second day in camp. A hair above 28 amps if everything turned on at the same time. Not enough to trip the pedestal or coach 30 breaker. Not enough to burn open a 10awg wire. Should have NEVER melted a wire nut. It did and the design is unsafe. A weak link between two primary protection devices is an unsafe design.

I can't tell from you photo how the circuit is fed into the transfer switch, but 28 amps is too much even for a #10 copper wire, they shouldn't be operating at more than 80% of the maximum rated capacity. A wire nut might or might not make a good, low resistive connection, but they certainly shouldn't be used in this application. I will be sure to change mine, even if I have to twist, solder, and tape the connections.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by jimbo12

Quick calculations: GFCI circuit had 12.5A max with space heater, general receptacle circuit 1.35A max with CPAP, small fan, and cat heating pad. Appliance circuit 2.5A with fridge. HW heater circuit 11.7A. Plus some draw on DC circuits. Second day in camp. A hair above 28 amps if everything turned on at the same time. Not enough to trip the pedestal or coach 30 breaker. Not enough to burn open a 10awg wire. Should have NEVER melted a wire nut. It did and the design is unsafe. A weak link between two primary protection devices is an unsafe design.

Originally Posted by Metalman

I can't tell from you photo how the circuit is fed into the transfer switch, but 28 amps is too much even for a #10 copper wire, they shouldn't be operating at more than 80% of the maximum rated capacity. A wire nut might or might not make a good, low resistive connection, but they certainly shouldn't be used in this application. I will be sure to change mine, even if I have to twist, solder, and tape the connections.

This has been a weak link discussed numerous times on this forums with several threads started just to warn other owners to check their ATS wirenut connections.

[MLP]

Again look at the failed unit. It shows metal affected by water intrusion. Just high humidity will do this with time. The wire nuts, with tape, are not water tight and will allow the oxidation process. Again oxidation does not conduct and thus over time build a heating element. 12 amps through enough resistance will burn. The electrical design, equipment, wire, etc., is not faulty, but not being properly water tight or mounted in a dry location is

[Jimbo56]

I think my ATS is under the bed. Just another project. Gotta get me some of that silicone tape.

[JimOIB]

It is an ATS design flaw that has been propagated to every RV that has this model. The design should not have set the installer up to connect wires with a wire nut. The pigtails that “make it easy to install” are attached to the relay with ring terminals. Why not just go directly to the relay with the “installer provided connection” as ring terminals. Ok, a couple of the ring terminals have sensing wires on them as well but just make them separate ring terminals. All 100% avoidable.

Let’s talk watertight - the ring and spade terminals are heat shrink ones that have not been installed correctly to make them watertight - simple heat gun solves this.

So now the ATS supplier has Wago connectors to make the installation even easier. BS - the just shifted the design flaw to another device. I use Wago all the time in control systems and industrial design - not a single wire nut in the brewery I work in. But in a high vibration environment - not a fan.

I’m at the point where I don’t not believe the wire nut failed but the 10/2 Romex did. The wire nut has a higher heat capacity than the wire. Yes, the wire nut connection provided increased resistance but when I look up close at my ATS it is clear the wire burned open at the wire nut and the wire caught on fire based on the burned insulation.

I ordered a new ATS, the same model and I’m going to wire it correctly. Eliminate the pigtail and go directly to the relay with ring terminals. I will need to replace the 10/2 Romex with stranded wire since it is illegal to use ring terminals on solid wire. I will also need to replace the 10/2 Romex from the generator as well.

The only silver lining in this disaster was it was all mounted in an enclosed box. The fire ran out of oxygen before it could leave the box. Otherwise we would have been watching the rig burn to the ground at 2AM.

[JimOIB]

For my fellow FW 24F owners - the ATS is under the bed. You need to remove the panel under the bed to access it.

Attachment 36051Attachment 36052

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by jimbo12

It is an ATS design flaw that has been propagated to every RV that has this model. The design should not have set the installer up to connect wires with a wire nut. The pigtails that “make it easy to install” are attached to the relay with ring terminals. Why not just go directly to the relay with the “installer provided connection” as ring terminals. Ok, a couple of the ring terminals have sensing wires on them as well but just make them separate ring terminals. All 100% avoidable.

Let’s talk watertight - the ring and spade terminals are heat shrink ones that have not been installed correctly to make them watertight - simple heat gun solves this.

So now the ATS supplier has Wago connectors to make the installation even easier. BS - the just shifted the design flaw to another device. I use Wago all the time in control systems and industrial design - not a single wire nut in the brewery I work in. But in a high vibration environment - not a fan.

I’m at the point where I don’t not believe the wire nut failed but the 10/2 Romex did. The wire nut has a higher heat capacity than the wire. Yes, the wire nut connection provided increased resistance but when I look up close at my ATS it is clear the wire burned open at the wire nut and the wire caught on fire based on the burned insulation.

I ordered a new ATS, the same model and I’m going to wire it correctly. Eliminate the pigtail and go directly to the relay with ring terminals. I will need to replace the 10/2 Romex with stranded wire since it is illegal to use ring terminals on solid wire. I will also need to replace the 10/2 Romex from the generator as well.

The only silver lining in this disaster was it was all mounted in an enclosed box. The fire ran out of oxygen before it could leave the box. Otherwise we would have been watching the rig burn to the ground at 2AM.

I’m not an electrician. But now I’m paranoid about this ATS ( automatic transfer switch, it switched power supply from shore, to generator, to batteries). I’ve read about connections working loose. This causes resistance and more heat. Now incorrect wire. Incorrect connections. This seems like a major, life threatening flaw. Worse than the front cap falling off a super C. Screw that 80% stuff. The err should be able to handle a surge so as to trip the breaker. Thor won’t correct it until you get in their pocket. I can recommend a friend who is a very good injury attorney if you would like to pursue this. Friend, you are very lucky you’re not toast.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

I’m not an electrician. But now I’m paranoid about this ATS ( automatic transfer switch, it switched power supply from shore, to generator, to batteries). I’ve read about connections working loose. This causes resistance and more heat. Now incorrect wire. Incorrect connections. This seems like a major, life threatening flaw. Worse than the front cap falling off a super C. Screw that 80% stuff. The err should be able to handle a surge so as to trip the breaker. Thor won’t correct it until you get in their pocket. I can recommend a friend who is a very good injury attorney if you would like to pursue this. Friend, you are very lucky you’re not toast.

The ATS has nothing to do with the batteries.

[MLP]

Originally Posted by Metalman

I can't tell from you photo how the circuit is fed into the transfer switch, but 28 amps is too much even for a #10 copper wire, they shouldn't be operating at more than 80% of the maximum rated capacity. A wire nut might or might not make a good, low resistive connection, but they certainly shouldn't be used in this application. I will be sure to change mine, even if I have to twist, solder, and tape the connections.

Not true. The rating for #10 copper gauge wire is 30 amps.

[Stevemcb]

You can change the ATS thru the drawer opening on the 2022 Delano 24 TT. I have no wire nuts or any other connections on my ATS other than the wires going directly to the lugs as they are suppose to. They also have torque specifications that should be used to tighten the wires correctly to the lugs. It may be that someone installed the ATS in a spot where they could not connect the wires directly because they were too short. If it is the feed to the outside hookup connector that is a easy fix on my type of unit as it is only 5 foot away.
10 Gauge is rated at 30 Amps so is the appropriate wire in the coach

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

The ATS has nothing to do with the batteries.

Whatever.