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Old 07-22-2022, 06:56 PM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 34 B
State: Virginia
Posts: 42
THOR #22976
Exclamation No power to dash/cab/camera after BCC FW-2050 recall fix

Hello,

We're on a four-month trip in a 2008 Four Winds (Thor) Hurricane 34B that we purchased last year. Maintenance and repairs were not kept up well by the previous owner and I've been chipping away at it.

Last week I experienced power loss to the chassis and I tracked it down to the BCC. Performed the recall fix on the road (in the AZ desert along a deserted highway...)

The rig seems fine to drive now, but I've lost power to the following:
  • Dash fan (and thus A/C)
  • Cab map lights
  • Overhead fans
  • Backup camera (original Voyager CRT)
  • possibly other items I haven't discovered yet

Any ideas?

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Old 07-22-2022, 09:28 PM   #2
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THOR #2631
If you lost your engine and related lights etc and did the BCC recall to fix it (basically moved the “switched chassis” cable over to the “chassis battery” cable and post on the outside of the BCC) you “might” have a chassis battery latching relay that has failed open. Do you still have working jacks and steps? When you operate the chassis relay switch near the door do you hear the chassis relay operate and release? If not (and no steps or jacks among other things) that is likely the problem. If you still hear the click of the relay it might still be bad contacts on that relay. If you go to the RV Custom Products web site they have information on this BCC that will explain how it works, complete with schematic etc. I will attach a schematic on the response as well so you can see the loads that run off the chassis battery latching relay.
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Old 07-23-2022, 03:25 AM   #3
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THOR #16471
Yeah, as javelin mentions, it sounds like your chassis disconnect relay is not closing. For a temp fix, run a jumper from the chassis battery terminal to the switched ignition terminal, both on the BCC. Just remember all those items will stay energized when the jumper is left on. There are vids online on how to change those relays out.
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Old 07-23-2022, 02:35 PM   #4
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THOR #2631
OldWEB is correct you can temporarily bypass a failed open chassis latching relay to get back in business. In fact I carry a suitably terminated battery strap cable as an emergency backup for that reason. Technically a failed open coach (house) latching relay inside the BCC could also be temporarily bypassed externally on the BCC terminals (coach battery to house panel terminals), but you risk the bypassing of the 50 amp mini breaker inside the BCC, which I would NOT recommend doing. An external 50 amp mini breaker and strap arrangement could be rigged if safe electrical practices were used. Of course the safest course is to replace the latching relays properly inside the BCC as required, but that does take some contortions and work to complete. See attached excellent UTube video for the gory details. Hope I never have to do this.....so far so good. I carry a spare BCC circuit board as well......the BCC is the heart of the beast.


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Old 07-25-2022, 03:06 AM   #5
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THOR #22976
Thanks for all the great and detailed information!

I haven't had a chance to look at the issue - working full-time from the road during the trip, taking care of household and family stuff takes virtually all my time...

Aside from the dash-stuff everything else seems to be working, including the steps and jacks.

However, I do not hear the "click" when I operate the chassis disconnect button. I had assumed that the recall fix completely bypassed it and that it would no longer be in use. Is that not the case?

Either way, I'll probably use a jumper wire or replace the relay. Should have some time this week.
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Old 07-25-2022, 04:54 AM   #6
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THOR #2631
Well the fact that you say that your jacks and steps are fully functional and you hear no relay click when operating and releasing the chassis disconnect switch at the door, seems to imply that maybe the chassis latching relay is actually failed “closed” (and not "open" as first thought). Most of the loads you mention that are not functioning are fed via the accessory relay contacts being closed (mounted on the BCC circuit board) and shown to the left of P5 connector on the schematic diagram previously posted. The strange thing is there is a 5amp fuse shown that feeds some portion of the jack system (unless maybe that particular item it is not even wired out on your coach). I note that on my ACE there is no actual wire terminated in pin 5 position on the P5 plug (assigned for the jack system), so maybe that is not even required for jack operation, since my jacks are working fine too? So possibly when you turn your key to accessory the accessory relay is not operating inside the BCC to power your P5 connected loads? It could also be missing, loose, or blown fuses on the P5 connector inside the BCC or maybe the P5 plug is loose and needs to be re-seated?
Note that the BCC recall that I am familiar with, still requires that the chassis disconnect switch be operated. All it did was to hard wire the ignition cable (that was on the “switched battery” terminal) to the chassis battery terminal. This was to ensure that a fail open on the chassis latching relay in the BCC, would not result in the engine and related from failing as well. The other thing is if your chassis latching relay has actually failed closed, you don’t actually need the additional strap mentioned in previous posts. Good to have one handy though if required (or as you want). That still means that you need to investigate P5 connections inside the BCC to get your loads running. Check if your power mirrors are working as well. Make sure you disconnect battery grounds and no SP or generator on, for safety.....before going into the BCC.
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Old 07-25-2022, 07:34 PM   #7
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THOR #22976
Quick update - I do (now) hear the relay clicking when I operate the Chassis Connect/Disconnect switch. Not sure whether it actually wasn't working before or whether I just didn't hear it.

Is the green light supposed to be on with Chassis Power is connected (i.e. after the BCC recall fix)?

It does not light up, even though I hear the relay engaging / disengaging.
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Old 07-25-2022, 10:27 PM   #8
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THOR #2631
Hi, well on my ACE (when engine is off so the lockout relay is not operated so not preventing the operation or release of chassis battery latch relay) when either the chassis or coach disconnect switch (at the door) has turned on either the coach or chassis latching relay, the associated LED at the door switch is also on. When either latching relay is turned off, the associated LED’s go out........on my ACE. I can only assume yours would be operate the same. I don’t have a schematic of the actual LED to switch connections though. Power to the two door disconnect switches comes via fuses shown in the previous BCC schematic.

It might just be the LED is burned out, or a connection/wiring issue for the LED, since the latching relay seems to be operating. You can check if the chassis latch relay is open by using your steps (if steps don’t work then the chassis latch relay is open). By the way typically the radio is operated from the coach battery and coach battery disconnect on my ACE......so the simple test is does radio work or not for the coach latching relay on or off.
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Old 07-25-2022, 11:14 PM   #9
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 34 B
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THOR #22976
Thank you all for the information and suggestions!

I finally have some time, but of course now it's raining (for the first time in weeks)... We'll see how far I get today.

I just checked on the various components and here's a rundown of what works and what doesn't:

Works:
  • steps
  • jacks (auto-leveling)
  • headlights
  • high beams
  • directionals
  • dash lights
  • engine
  • power train
  • OBD-II port
  • dash 12V outlets (I believe these are on the chassisd battery)
  • radio (I suspect this may be on the coach batteries, though)
  • coach batteries get charged when the engine is running

Does not work:
  • back-up camera / screen
  • Overhead fans (cab)
  • Dash fan
  • Vehicle A/C
  • Fog lights
  • Power mirrors
  • Mirror heater

Disconnect button behavior:
  • Chassis disconnect relay clicks on connect & disconnect, but LED does not turn on.
  • Coach disconnect clicks, but LED always stays on (all coach electrical seems to be working)
  • Coach disconnect does not cut power to the coach. LED stays on as well. Relay clicks on connect & disconnect.
  • Prior to the issue and subsequent BCC-fix these buttons and LEDs worked as expected (disconnect cut power, LED off / connect enabled power, LED on)

Not sure this is relevant, but the back-up screen (CRT) occasionally flickered before I lost power to the chassis, like there was a loose connection.

What puzzles me is that the mix of what works and what doesn't work seems to be connected to overlapping groups on the BCC.
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Old 07-26-2022, 12:00 AM   #10
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THOR #16471
I would place both chassis and house disconnects to normal and then in the BCC, check each and every pinout on P1 to P6... They all should have proper voltage to them if there is a fuse installed, some may NOT have a fuseholder (optional), so they can be ignored.
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Old 07-26-2022, 01:48 AM   #11
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THOR #22976
Tested power on P6 (F2-F6), P5 (F9-F15), P3 (F21-F25) - nothing. Basically the entire right-hand side of the board is dead.

So... I reverted to the pre-recall setup. That restored power to everything that wasn't working after the recall-setup (i.e. P6, P5, etc.).

Dash fan is back, overhead fans are back, etc.

I'm not planning to drive it this way, so I guess I'm back to square one.

Thoughts?
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Old 07-26-2022, 02:07 AM   #12
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THOR #2631
As OldWEB is advising, it might be time to start using the multimeter to start “carefully” testing for normal and missing voltages. You may find that some troubles may not even be BCC related (video?). I am attaching a link to the RV Custom Products web page for the BCC as they do provide some basic testing guides (.pdf) and info to help you resolve some of the major failure issues. You did the BCC recall update because the engine quit on the road and everything was working OK before that. I am not sure how doing that recall single cable move would cause all the issues. Maybe just coincidental.



https://rvcustomproducts.com/fw-2050


Other side questions/observations:

Odd that the coach disconnect switch lamp stays on always regardless of the coach latch relay being on or off (maybe the coach latch relay is not opening (turning off) even though it clicks?). Does the radio turn off when you turn off the coach latch relay? You also note that the coach disconnect does not remove power to the coach when it is off .......how are you testing that? Is your shore power (SP) connected at that time? You say coach batteries charge OK when the engine is running; do they charge OK when on SP as well (engine off and coach disconnect on)?
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Old 07-26-2022, 02:12 AM   #13
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THOR #2631
Quote:
Originally Posted by To Camp View Post
Tested power on P6 (F2-F6), P5 (F9-F15), P3 (F21-F25) - nothing. Basically the entire right-hand side of the board is dead.

So... I reverted to the pre-recall setup. That restored power to everything that wasn't working after the recall-setup (i.e. P6, P5, etc.).

Dash fan is back, overhead fans are back, etc.

I'm not planning to drive it this way, so I guess I'm back to square one.

Thoughts?



I missed your response before posting my last entry. What exactly did you change per the BCC recall in the first place?
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Old 07-26-2022, 02:21 AM   #14
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THOR #16471
Quote:
Originally Posted by To Camp View Post
Tested power on P6 (F2-F6), P5 (F9-F15), P3 (F21-F25) - nothing. Basically the entire right-hand side of the board is dead.

So... I reverted to the pre-recall setup. That restored power to everything that wasn't working after the recall-setup (i.e. P6, P5, etc.).

Dash fan is back, overhead fans are back, etc.

I'm not planning to drive it this way, so I guess I'm back to square one.

Thoughts?
That proves the "Chassis" relay is not picking up. When you did the recall 'fix', it provided power to the engine ignition circuits to guarantee the engine will run, but if the chassis disconnect still does not close, those circuits will remain w/o power. A temp. fix is to run a properly sized jumper back to the "chassis ignition" post on the BCC, just remembering it will always be powered.

As javelin suggests, do tests to confirm the chassis disconnect relay is getting + and - voltages to the coil. I am assuming you have the FW-2050 BCC.
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Old 07-26-2022, 02:35 AM   #15
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THOR #22976
Quote:
Originally Posted by javelin View Post
I missed your response before posting my last entry. What exactly did you change per the BCC recall in the first place?
I followed RV Custom Products instructions as posted on their web site - moving the battery cable from the "Chassis Switched" post to the "Chassis Battery" post (thus combining the two cables on the "Chassis Battery" post).
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Old 07-26-2022, 02:51 AM   #16
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
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THOR #22976
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWEB View Post
That proves the "Chassis" relay is not picking up. When you did the recall 'fix', it provided power to the engine ignition circuits to guarantee the engine will run, but if the chassis disconnect still does not close, those circuits will remain w/o power. A temp. fix is to run a properly sized jumper back to the "chassis ignition" post on the BCC, just remembering it will always be powered.

As javelin suggests, do tests to confirm the chassis disconnect relay is getting + and - voltages to the coil. I am assuming you have the FW-2050 BCC.
Correct - I have the FW-2050 (with an FW-221 rev B board).

I assume a 4 AWG would be fine for the jumper? Would that be between the "Chassis Switched" and "Chassis Battery" posts?

As for the relay, are you referring to the chassis disconnect relay?
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Old 07-26-2022, 03:13 AM   #17
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THOR #2631
Yes that should work as we are right back to the early discussions about using the added jumper between chassis battery and chassis switched terminals on outside of the BCC. The chassis latch relay has to be working sometimes and not others (or the contacts of that relay are not always making) otherwise your jacks and steps would not have worked with just the recall completed per entry #9. This should work for you now.....but as OldWEB says the chassis battery will always be connected to those loads with the added strap. Not a problem if you are always on shore or driving so alternator is charging. A manual disconnect might work if done safely but you would need to go into the engine bay to open and close it.
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Old 07-30-2022, 02:27 AM   #18
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THOR #22976
The pigtail solution between the posts is working - I have power to the engine etc as well as to the dash.

Not ideal since I lost the disconnect, but it'll hold for the next couple of months until we get home.

Too many other issues to delve into this now, I'm afraid. The other day our power awning wouldn't retract, for instance. Took the motor assembly off and found that the cast aluminum housing was split... (Carefree).

Thanks for all your help and input - it helped me tremendously and I will certainly refer back to it when I get home to fix it permanently!
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Old 07-30-2022, 01:04 PM   #19
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THOR #2631
Glad that this intermittent chassis latching relay issue was finally resolved with a temporary work around. You say pigtail solution.....which I assume is the short 4 AWG battery strap you said you were going to use, right? If you are going to remove the BCC when you get home and have the time to fully repair it, you might also consider replacing the “coach battery” latching relay too. There is a good chance that the contacts on that coach latch relay are also well worn or perhaps pitted from years of use. You can use a voltmeter to actually measure the voltage drop across a closed (operated and under load) latch relay contact on the exterior terminals of the BCC. Just refer to the schematic previously posted and carefully place the voltmeter on the appropriate exterior BCC terminals that are closest to the latch relay terminals of interest on the inside of the BCC. For example to test coach battery latch contacts.......one voltmeter meter lead on the House Panel terminal (which connects to the converter) and the other meter lead on the coach battery terminal. While on shore power with coach battery charging you can measure the drop across the coach battery latching relay contacts. Of course a good connection between contacts on either latch relay should produce a very low voltage drop (very low resistance). The best way to get to know your coach functional details is, unfortunately, when you have troubles. I hope you enjoy your coach and your travels ahead.
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