No Speedometer, odometer, shifts hard

JDemoss · 08-02-2022, 10:54 PM

I own a 1999 Four Winds THOR Hurricane model 29D which is on a Ford Triton V10 6.8. The speedometer, odometer, and trip counter is not turning/moving...stays at 0. Odometer is not moving but shows 44K miles which was correct as of when it stopped. The cruise control is not working. It is also shifting very rough at the very beginning (maybe the first two gears...before getting to 25-30 mph)....kind of "jumps." I opened the dash to inspect the F53 Hybrid II Cluster, and it looks OK...all connections are tight. And all other functions on the cluster such as gas, temp, battery voltage...all are functioning ok.

It's been about 10 years or more....but I seem to recall replacing a sensor underneath somewhat near the rear transaxle...kind of up and above...hard to reach. Does that sound like a speed sensor or vss? And if this sensor is bad, does it make sense that these problems sound like they could all be caused by having this sensor going bad? If I am just not even close as to why this is happening...does anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance!

javelin · 08-03-2022, 12:12 AM

Not sure if this link will help you any but it sounds like some of the similar issues you are reporting.....plus some good information that might assist.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/spee...53-506195.html

grizzlyclaus · 08-03-2022, 01:36 AM

The sensor that feeds speed info to the PCM is on the top of the rear axle housing. When bad the speedo, odo, and cruise will not work and trans will not shift correctly. All those systems are controlled thru the PCM and if sensor is bad none will operate. Sensor is at top of axle housing held in with one bolt and has one 2 wire connector to it. Simple to replace and should fix all your issues.

The Gritz Carlton · 08-03-2022, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizzlyclaus

The sensor that feeds speed info to the PCM is on the top of the rear axle housing. When bad the speedo, odo, and cruise will not work and trans will not shift correctly. All those systems are controlled thru the PCM and if sensor is bad none will operate. Sensor is at top of axle housing held in with one bolt and has one 2 wire connector to it. Simple to replace and should fix all your issues.

Best advice. I had a tow truck pull my Bronco out of a mud ditch at AMS years ago. He accidentally pulled a wire/cable from this sensor and it caused this exact scenario. Transmission was literally banging into gears.

JDemoss · 08-03-2022, 07:55 PM

I replaced the VSS about 10 years ago. I'm assuming that is the issue. As this is Hurricane V10 Triton Motorhome on a 1999 F550 Super Duty 6.8...it took 3 stores but eventually ended up at Advanced Auto Parts. They said the CarQuest part is ARC1005. My online search seemed to confirm so I bought it. For those who are much more knowledgeable on this...does this part sound like the right one? Also as this depends on good contacts...any thoughts on what I should use to make sure the existing contacts are clean and will make good contact? My "supplies" are limited in my garage...so is wiping it clean...maybe using alcohol on the contact a good idea? Or would water an a clean towel suffice? Thank you all for your help!

JDemoss · 08-03-2022, 07:58 PM

Thank you JAVELIN. I saw that post and printed out copies. Very helpful! Also found this Ford site that has the ability to search many Ford chassis

https://www.ford.com/support/vehicle...owner-manuals/

JDemoss · 08-03-2022, 08:07 PM

Hey THE GRITZ CARLTON, is there a chance that if this still is a problem after I replace the VSS part...could the wiring upstream be the problem? Any idea what that would take to replace..where I might find some kind of part breakdown so I know what might need replaced (if that wiring has been damaged?) Or is it all very securely connected upstream from the VSS?

JDemoss · 08-03-2022, 08:14 PM

Hey Grizzlyclaus...I found the Ford site that has a lot of info at:

https://www.ford.com/support/vehicle...owner-manuals/

I had no idea that Ford had this info online...and I've had this motorhome for 15 years. So I wish I knew about this previously.

Do any of you have other sites that have more details that motorhome owners should have in their quest to do as much DIY on our motorhome as possible? Again, thanks!

JDemoss · 08-03-2022, 08:28 PM

I've reposted comments/questions about this thread that seem to have dissapeared. I am learning I guess...but frustrating. Again, thanks to all who have helped. Hopefully I will install the new part tonight and have this completely fixed. Hopefully!

JDemoss · 08-04-2022, 06:53 PM

Well I replaced the part...went in fine...all connections were clean. But problem still exists: No speedometer, no odometer, no trip mileage counter...and still shifting rough (but that only happens at first few gears, and can be mitigated through easing into the lower gears...going slower).

Any clues on how to test if the wire that connects to this sensor is OK? I could also test the old VSS that I pulled out? BTW, there was some oil on the part when I removed the old one...does that "hole" it goes down into generally have fluid? As the sensor has a round gasket on the top where it seats into that hole, I am assuming that is normal? Thanks in advance for any ideas on this.

javelin · 08-04-2022, 11:41 PM

Well I am just winging it here (as I typically do), but it seems that the differential VSS sensor also should feed into the ABS system (monitors rear wheels – possibly instead of using two separate sensors at each rear wheel; together with a speed sensor at each front wheel). So did you have an ABS fault on the dash or check engine light during your test drives? If no ABS fault then I wonder if the original diff VSS sensor is even bad? You might be able to test and compare the old and new VSS sensors for their DC coil resistance value, just to determine if they are open or have similar resistance values? This may confirm the old sensor is open (infinite resistance), or that both new and old have the same coil resistance readings. If the same readings, then maybe the sensor(s) are both good and you have a different issue like maybe a bad ground connection at the diff VSS sensor connector or damaged cabling from diff sensor to the under dash plug/connection to where ever the VSS ties into the ABS/ PCM/ cruise and dash speedo/odometer (PSOM)? Of course tracing that connection cable to make sure it is not damaged could be fun. By testing the diff sesnors you might find the original part is bad and maybe the new part is too.....or if resistance is very different, that it is the wrong part?

**16ACE27** · 08-05-2022, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javelin

Well I am just winging it here (as I typically do), but it seems that the differential VSS sensor also should feed into the ABS system (monitors rear wheels – possibly instead of using two separate sensors at each rear wheel; together with a speed sensor at each front wheel). So did you have an ABS fault on the dash or check engine light during your test drives? If no ABS fault then I wonder if the original diff VSS sensor is even bad? You might be able to test and compare the old and new VSS sensors for their DC coil resistance value, just to determine if they are open or have similar resistance values? This may confirm the old sensor is open (infinite resistance), or that both new and old have the same coil resistance readings. If the same readings, then maybe the sensor(s) are both good and you have a different issue like maybe a bad ground connection at the diff VSS sensor connector or damaged cabling from diff sensor to the under dash plug/connection to where ever the VSS ties into the ABS/ PCM/ cruise and dash speedo/odometer (PSOM)? Of course tracing that connection cable to make sure it is not damaged could be fun. By testing the diff sesnors you might find the original part is bad and maybe the new part is too.....or if resistance is very different, that it is the wrong part?

ABS sensors have always been at each wheel, just like brakes are at each wheel.

OP needs to check continuity of his wires to/from the VSS sensor.

javelin · 08-05-2022, 01:13 AM

Some interesting reading regarding Ford F series trucks and speed sensor history. They don't say if this includes F53 specifically though. OP says he has a 1999 so probably a 1998 chassis I assume. It does seem to show a single differential DSS sensor for rear ABS with various wiring and placement changes over the years in the article. May not help the OP though, but I thought it was interesting to read.

https://atracom.blob.core.windows.ne.../2004_1_50.pdf

javelin · 08-05-2022, 01:38 AM

I managed to scrounge up the Part 2 article in Gear Magazine which discusses diagnosing the speed sensor problems........so it might be of interest to the OP or anyone else who read Part 1 article in my previous post.

https://atracom.blob.core.windows.ne.../2004_3_34.pdf

Again they do not say F53 follows this evolution, but there is a good chance it might be included on a stripped chassis truck too.

JDemoss · 08-05-2022, 03:10 PM

Thanks again to all who have added their insight. Very much appreciated. After much much more reading and about 7 phone calls, I got several more important facts. Ford has an online parts site, www.fordparts.com. Ford parts folks didnt want to initially help, and pushed me toward that, only to find out they do not list these parts for it "...because it's a '99." Called back and they looked up the part as it was not posted online. The part is where JAVELIN noted and exactly as shown in the diagram you provided (thanks), but Ford part # is F81Z7M101AA, and called the "Tail Shaft Speed Sensor." Ford carries the part, and can also be subbed w/DY1229. It seems the prior part info provided by local parts stores is the wrong item...even though it fit...so I ordered this part and should get it next week. And as we all know, if you put in the wrong part then it won't work as expected even if it "fits." Hopefully this new part will mean problem with inop cruise, odometer, speedometer, and rough shifting will all then be resolved...I should know by Wednesday 8/7/22. (?)

JDemoss · 08-10-2022, 12:10 PM

Ok...let's first put out "what didn't work" with my last post so other owners do not make the same mistake. First, the part number provided to me by FORD was NOT the correct fit. It was too long and narrow...and the piece where it bolted down was too long. I'm going to keep this thread running until it is repaired...so those who read this in the future DO NOT INSTALL the part number mentioned in previous posts...wait until the info in the next few posts...the last post without follow up.

By now I went to my 4th store...for the 5th "correct" part. I installed it (it fit) but still no odometer, speedometer, cruise, ABS light on, and shifts rough at lowest 2 gears. A NEW TWIST: I bought a plug in accessory to the vehicle processor/computer/? that reads the speed from the vehicle along with other things like temp. And the speedometer reads at 0. So truly the speedometer information is not being communicated to the system computer...and it is NOT that the guages are malfunctioning.

I think the above post (JAVELIN?) that mentioned "checking wire continuity" must be the right answer.

I have found a place that sells the wire/plug that connects into this sensor. The wire is maybe 8" long...but has tip plug.

I have never tested continuity...can someone please provide YouTube links that demonstrate how to do this for low level DIY'ers?

Or do you recommend that I replace the tip plug first...and if that doesn't work...check continuity (understanding I can replace wires easily enough...but I have no idea about checking wire continuity.) Please share links..

I need to attempt DIY to keep down costs as mechanics in the area are just too much $, and motorhome mechanics are up to 1/3 more expensive. So wire continuity to sensor...assuming the new sensor is OK so I dont need to test sensor but wires that connect to the sensor and with the grouping of things inop (no cruise control, speedometer, odometer, ABS light on, & rough shifts) do those of you more knowledgeable still believe this issue is tied to this sensor function? And as a reminder all other functions on the guages are fine like temp, gas, tachometer. Again, thanks.

JDemoss · 08-10-2022, 01:08 PM

....Another thought: Could it just be a fuse? I get that maybe the plug to the sensor could be bad or a wire could be cut or disconnected that goes to the sensor. But could it be a fuse in the fuse box? The info sheet says the BRAKE SHIFT INTERLOCK ACTUATOR is also controlled by the speed control module fuse. Could it be the correct one to test? And should I check the POWER DISTRIBUTION fuse panel inside the engine compartment or the fuse panel inside and under the steering wheel (there are 2 fuse panels)

Again, thanks

JDemoss · 08-10-2022, 04:07 PM

Ok...I think I have checked for continuity (?) Put the multimeter @ 200 on Ohms...tested by crossing leads and got 0. Then once I put the leads into the wire/plug that connects to the sensor...it showed 11.8 (I dont know how to attach image, but tryst me, it showed 11.8). So now we've shown continuity to the sensor, right? So that means wrong sensor installed (?) Well, any ideas? I know the new sensor is good...but obviously not the right one, right?

javelin · 08-10-2022, 05:06 PM

You are probably tired of trying to determine your problem and then not even getting the correct parts from Ford even. I think this is the first time you have confirmed an actual ABS light on your dash so the other thing is, do you have a check engine light on also? Can you beg, borrow or buy a code reader that includes ABS codes......or have a neighbor with one who can check for codes? Probably with the hard transmission shifts you do not want to be driving around looking for parts dealers that will do a free code read for you.
If you can't get a code reading, then we are basically trying to determine how your coach is actually wired. Part of the issue, is the article links I included on previous posts, do not say that they apply to F53 so we are guessing about your coach speed sensor configuration. Reading the first link again under the 1999 and newer section (even though your chassis is likely a 1998), it says the three ABS sensors (two front and one diff) tie directly into the ABS module first, then the output of the ABS module provides the vehicle speed output to the other dash modules it seems. See my link below from another forum.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/vss-...-a-359500.html

This link talks about a 1999 F53 coach with a similar ABS/speed sense issue and it includes some info regarding testing the three ABS sensors/wiring diagram and possible location of the ABS sensor module on the chassis. Of course this may not apply to your coach, but if you investigate, you might find that it does work for your situation. Follow the article for some details on wiring and test points for the three ABS sensors.....if in fact you have the same set up. Looks like this link ends with no resolution though so it may not be worth much.

Using an ohm meter for continuity requires that there are no voltages on the device or wiring being tested (so turn off ignition etc before testing and isolate the sesnor or its wiring from the modules it connects to). Normally you short the meter test probes together first and zero the meter......if it’s a digital meter it should show zero ohms or very low resistance for the two meter test probe wires. Then for each sensor at a time, you touch the two sensor electrical terminals (or touch the disconnected wires that connect to each sensor under test) with the meter probes to determine if you get a resistance reading. No reading (infinite resistance) means an open sensor or bad connection etc. The link above talks about the resistance values they should have for that 1999 F53......but we don’t know if this applies to your coach either. I hope this at least helps you determine if you have a similar setup and if so, helps you to find a solution to your problem with minimal cost.

**16ACE27** · 08-10-2022, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDemoss

Ok...I think I have checked for continuity (?) Put the multimeter @ 200 on Ohms...tested by crossing leads and got 0. Then once I put the leads into the wire/plug that connects to the sensor...it showed 11.8 (I dont know how to attach image, but tryst me, it showed 11.8). So now we've shown continuity to the sensor, right? So that means wrong sensor installed (?) Well, any ideas? I know the new sensor is good...but obviously not the right one, right?

What you measured was the resistance of the sensor. What you need to measure is the continuity of the wires going to that sensor. To do that, you need to find the other end of that wire so you can short the two wires together on one end and do your measurement of the continuity of both wires on the other end. It should be close to zero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOK8np4t40c&t=65s

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