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Old 07-10-2020, 12:08 PM   #1
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Power trip

I have a 2017 Thor Outlaw Toy Hauler 29h. When I'm using shore power I can only use 1 a.c. unit if I want to use any appliance such as microwave or coffee maker. OR I have to shut down both a.c. units. Otherwise the GFI trips in the bathroom or the breaker at the pole (camping) Shouldn't I be able to keep both a.c. units on at all times even if I want to make a cup of coffee? This has happened at the last 3 campsites. I took it in for service and they say nothing is wrong.

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Old 07-10-2020, 12:21 PM   #2
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Could it be a problem with the automatic transfer switch?
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Martinez View Post
I have a 2017 Thor Outlaw Toy Hauler 29h. When I'm using shore power I can only use 1 a.c. unit if I want to use any appliance such as microwave or coffee maker. OR I have to shut down both a.c. units. Otherwise the GFI trips in the bathroom or the breaker at the pole (camping) Shouldn't I be able to keep both a.c. units on at all times even if I want to make a cup of coffee? This has happened at the last 3 campsites. I took it in for service and they say nothing is wrong.
You have a 30 Amp rig. Most 30 amp RVs only have 1 A/C and they still have to be careful about what they run at the same time. Your main A/C takes up at least half of your available current (15 Amps), the garage A/C probably uses 8 amps, electric water heater heater 12 amps, fridge 4 amps, coffee maker 12 amps, microwave 13 amps, etc. Do the math - you can't run them all at the same time. Better yet, install a meter to monitor your AC voltage and current use so you know what you have available.



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Old 07-10-2020, 01:09 PM   #4
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The garage a/c unit is a small 5K BTU unit, and I'm pretty sure it's got a Girard on-demand hot water system... Propane only.
We used to fire up almost everything all at one in our 2018 29H without issues...
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Old 07-10-2020, 01:58 PM   #5
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I agree with Bob....

We had a 2018 Outlaw 29H and had no issues with running the main A/C (13500BTU) and the garage A/C (5000BTU) along with any other appliance with a good 30A connection.

There could be a loose / bad connection somewhere that is causing a problem. My coach was wired from Thor with spring loaded WAGO connectors, which were much cleaner and more secure than typical wire nuts.

But many coaches have wire nuts and while they should work just fine, the guys doing the wiring don't always use the proper technique for a solid connection when using wire nuts. This can lead to wires overheating, arcing, or higher current draw.

It would be worth checking all of your 120V wiring starting at the transfer switch and working your wyay inside the coach. You will need to pull the drawers out next to the bathroom door to get access to several junction boxes so you can open them and inspect the wiring.
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:06 PM   #6
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Thanks Ted ,
A gadget I didn't have(how did this happen? I haz da shamez)

Easier to read than the display I have which is a gray screen with medium blue digits and requires a button push.

I've bought it.

Thanks.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:06 PM   #7
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Is it happening everywhere you plug in or always at the same pedestal? It could be the pedestal.
Do you have a surge protector EMS? If not, you need one to prevent damage to your rv when this is happening if it's from the source.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:40 PM   #8
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Thanks Ted ,
A gadget I didn't have(how did this happen? I haz da shamez)

Easier to read than the display I have which is a gray screen with medium blue digits and requires a button push.

I've bought it.

Thanks.
Really? Even I have one in my coach...
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:40 PM   #9
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What would I look at on the transfer switch? I am new to RV's and dont know what I'm looking at. Thanks
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:53 PM   #10
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I have the same monitor that Jamie has in my 29h. As long as the campground is suppling decent voltage, I can run both air conditioners plus.
Been in campgrounds that have shown voltages as low as 112 volts. I canít run both because as the voltage drops amperage increases.
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:07 PM   #11
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What would I look at on the transfer switch? I am new to RV's and dont know what I'm looking at. Thanks
On my 2018 Outlaw 29H my Transfer Switch was in the driver's side rear outside storage compartment.

It is a black square plastic box with conduit and wires running in and out of it. You can remove the cover to check the wiring connections..... just make sure you are unplugged from shore power and the generator is off when you start checking things!!!!!
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Old 07-11-2020, 05:35 PM   #12
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Yes: electricity can be a cruel Mistress...
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
You have a 30 Amp rig. Most 30 amp RVs only have 1 A/C and they still have to be careful about what they run at the same time. Your main A/C takes up at least half of your available current (15 Amps), the garage A/C probably uses 8 amps, electric water heater heater 12 amps, fridge 4 amps, coffee maker 12 amps, microwave 13 amps, etc. Do the math - you can't run them all at the same time. Better yet, install a meter to monitor your AC voltage and current use so you know what you have available.



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If I plug into a 50 amp outlet...would that cure the problem? Or is that a no no?
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Judge View Post
On my 2018 Outlaw 29H my Transfer Switch was in the driver's side rear outside storage compartment.

It is a black square plastic box with conduit and wires running in and out of it. You can remove the cover to check the wiring connections..... just make sure you are unplugged from shore power and the generator is off when you start checking things!!!!!
Thank you. I opened it and things look tight from what I see. How do I continue? This storage spot is under the garage
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:10 PM   #15
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If I plug into a 50 amp outlet...would that cure the problem? Or is that a no no?

While you can get a 50A to 30A adapter, but it will not give you the ability to handle more current draw.

A 50A coach used two separate 120V legs so half of the devices are wired to one leg and the other half of the devices are wired to the other leg. When you have two A/C's like I do, there is one A/C unit on each line.

You would either need to upgrade to 50A or you could wire up a separate 20A circuit to handle an additional A/C unit. You would then plug in your 30A shore power cable and then plug into the GFCI outlet in the pedestal with another cable for a separate 20A supply.
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:15 PM   #16
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Thank you. I opened it and things look tight from what I see. How do I continue? This storage spot is under the garage
If the wire nuts and connections look good in the Transfer Switch you need next check things in the electrical bay. On my 2018 Outlaw 29H, I had to remove the two drawers above the power distribution panel (your breaker box) to access all of the wiring.

It is a rats nest in there to say the least.... at least on my coach. You will see a few junction boxes and you can remove the access panels to inspection the wire nuts, connections, etc. You can also check the wiring going into the power distribution panel.

Again.... make sure you are not plugged into shore power and the generator is not running. There will be 12V present in this area as well because your Converter is located there. You can flip the breakers at your batteries or disconnect a ground from the batteries if you want to make sure you don't short anything across the 12V wiring.
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:00 PM   #17
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You need to get a volt meter and learn to use it. Just because your are plugged into 30 amps that does not guaranty you have 30 amps available. You need a minimum of 116 volts at rest (no load) to start with. Turn on your A/C and see where the voltage goes. I stay in a parks with very bad voltage drop because of undersized park wiring. I must use a Hughes autoformer in order to use just 1 A/C. Without my autoformer my at rest voltage is 120 volts. Using the A/C, coffee pot and toaster goes to 99 volts. When volts go down amps go up and breakers trip.

put your fridge and WH on gas.
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:22 PM   #18
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You need to get a volt meter and learn to use it. Just because your are plugged into 30 amps that does not guaranty you have 30 amps available. You need a minimum of 116 volts at rest (no load) to start with. Turn on your A/C and see where the voltage goes. I stay in a parks with very bad voltage drop because of undersized park wiring. I must use a Hughes autoformer in order to use just 1 A/C. Without my autoformer my at rest voltage is 120 volts. Using the A/C, coffee pot and toaster goes to 99 volts. When volts go down amps go up and breakers trip.

put your fridge and WH on gas.
Cavie should come back and weigh in on this

Plugging into 50A will you get you more juice but the breakers are tripping because of heat. I don't know if the breakers will prevent you from starting a fire. If you go back to Judge's post, loose connections create heat. 50A may buy you more time but it won't circumvent the cause. If it causes more heat before it reaches the breaker, you may have a severe problem on your hands.

As he said, get a voltmeter. Measure the current at the source. If it's insufficient, move or adjust your use. At the very least, pick up a surge protector with indicator lights for insufficient power and/or open ground.

If any of this needs correction, hopefully Cavie will straighten it up.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:21 AM   #19
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Cavie should come back and weigh in on this

Plugging into 50A will you get you more juice but the breakers are tripping because of heat. I don't know if the breakers will prevent you from starting a fire. If you go back to Judge's post, loose connections create heat. 50A may buy you more time but it won't circumvent the cause. If it causes more heat before it reaches the breaker, you may have a severe problem on your hands.

As he said, get a voltmeter. Measure the current at the source. If it's insufficient, move or adjust your use. At the very least, pick up a surge protector with indicator lights for insufficient power and/or open ground.

If any of this needs correction, hopefully Cavie will straighten it up.
Breakers don't trip because of heat. That is why you find burned up plug contacts. Breakers trip because of over amp draw. 50 amps is not just there, it is created by voltage and load. You don't measure current at the source, you measure voltage at the source. That's the first part of the equation you need to know.You can measure current at the source with an clamp-on amp meter. With that you will know total amp draw and be able to tell is it was a weak breaker or an overloaded breaker. Weak breakers are not very common. Remember the biggest fish in this pond it Voltage. You need to stat with at least 115 volts. You will oven see 110/120 on these forums. There is no such thing. What you see is 120 volts on a 30 amp service and 120/240 on a 50 amp service. 110 and 115 volts died with your granddad.

An EMS will let you work with a low of 108 and a high of 132. 108 leave absolutely no room for voltage drop. That's why it turns you off. To prevent A/C compressor damage. NOT electronic damage. Electronics have a wide voltage torerance.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:38 AM   #20
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Breakers don't trip because of heat. That is why you find burned up plug contacts. Breakers trip because of over amp draw. 50 amps is not just there, it is created by voltage and load. You don't measure current at the source, you measure voltage at the source. That's the first part of the equation you need to know.You can measure current at the source with an clamp-on amp meter. With that you will know total amp draw and be able to tell is it was a weak breaker or an overloaded breaker. Weak breakers are not very common. Remember the biggest fish in this pond it Voltage. You need to stat with at least 115 volts. You will oven see 110/120 on these forums. There is no such thing. What you see is 120 volts on a 30 amp service and 120/240 on a 50 amp service. 110 and 115 volts died with your granddad.

An EMS will let you work with a low of 108 and a high of 132. 108 leave absolutely no room for voltage drop. That's why it turns you off. To prevent A/C compressor damage. NOT electronic damage. Electronics have a wide voltage torerance.
Theoretically, the OP should be able to run his 13,500 BTU and 5000 BTU A/C on 30A. I say this because Bob D and I both had the same coach and we never had an issue running both A/C's on 30A.

Now the OP said he has had the issue at multiple sites so the chances of him having bad power at all of the sites is slim. Possible... but unlikely.

I have a hardwired Progressive EMS so I always know the voltage and current of my 50A service but apparently the OP is not using an EMS so I think it is still worth him checking for poor connections given the issue has happened at a few different sites.

There have been enough reports and pictures of shoddy wiring on this forum that it would not be a surprise if he also has a poor wiring connection somewhere. Poor connections can lead to an over-current situation if the full gauge of the intended wiring is not making proper contact. A poor connection from improperly installed wire nuts would be like using a 12AWG wire when the service really called for 6AWG. That could cause a breaker to trip and it could also cause heat with melting or even fire in extreme cases.
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