Quality Control of Thor

[wredman]

within, the total Class A numbers, I suspect/guess/opinion, is that some of the companies who have recently achieved or maintained an industry reputation of providing a better quality product (including Tiffin and Newmar) may experience production increases that challenge their ability to provide the quality levels associated with slower production rates relative to what their manufacturing infrastructure can provide.

I think the industry would benefit more long term with higher prices, lower demand, and lower build numbers. Complaining on the internet will never provide the same results as electing not to purchase.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by wredman

within, the total Class A numbers, I suspect/guess/opinion, is that some of the companies who have recently achieved or maintained an industry reputation of providing a better quality product (including Tiffin and Newmar) may experience production increases that challenge their ability to provide the quality levels associated with slower production rates relative to what their manufacturing infrastructure can provide.

I think the industry would benefit more long term with higher prices, lower demand, and lower build numbers. Complaining on the internet will never provide the same results as electing not to purchase.

My sister has a four or five year old Tiffen (bought new), I'm guessing it's been back to Red Bay no less than 7 or 8 times for major repairs. It's being covered out of warranty due the problems being so extensive. Areas that were were supposed to have foam insulation that has none. Multiple times had to take most of the interior out to address major defects and some of those are still compromises because the fixes would be worse than the problem.

In their case, the old man had stepped away from the business and apparently the son let quality go to crap, so hopefully they are back to making a quality unit again.

But, they also just revised their policy, saying they are cutting off free out of warranty work at four years. They are both covering things past warranty (a credit to them) due to all the manufacturing defects, and cutting them off at a year, because their service department is overwhelmed dealing with all the manufacturing defects.

[Paul_Leslie]

I have a really good sea story about sea trials, but not the place.

Once you buy, you need to give the coach a structured and challenging trail. Go some where a couple hundred miles away and back home. Get your dealer to fix the problems before you need the coach for the long trip.

When we bought the RV, we then sold the house. First person that looked at the house. A month later we were on the road. Many small fixes, and when we need to take it in for a bigger repair, we were many miles from home. Which means the RV dealer in the other state, can't fit you in for 2 months.

If you stay close and develop a relationship with your dealer, your repair rep will have quit and moved on when you try to go in for service. But keep using the one you bought the RV from and try to develop a relationship.

[Joe-FL]

Originally Posted by jb1911

So we should all just shut up and be happy with all the problems that came with our $100,000 motor home? A lot of us are first time owners, including me and were shocked with all the crappy design and workmanship that is only noticed once we bought it, brought it home and actually used it. Don't try to justify a whole industry pushing crap on the unsuspecting public. Remember the late '70s and early '80s American automobiles? They were pretty nice compared to the current RV industry.

First of all, you may have paid $100,000 for that brand new RV, but Thor only has about $45,000 to $50,000 invested in material/labor/profit to build it. You just gave that RV dealer around 100% profit. So ask yourself if you would still feel that same way if you only had $$55,000 invested in that brand new RV.

We only made the mistake of purchasing new once. The other two times we let someone else take the huge depreciation hit and get all the bugs worked out. Current Thor Challenger has been trouble free and is an excellent coach well worth what I paid for it.

We will soon be upgrading to larger DP. Will consider Thor, Tiffin, and Newmar. It certainly won't be a new coach. We are taking our time with our search knowing that all of these major brands have issues.

IMHO in you want to be a "happy camper" you have to buy a year or two old, know how to fix most things yourself and enjoy doing it, and understand that there is never going to be anything close to the same quality control in the RV industry as there is in the auto industry.

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by tnedator

That's not what I read. I know I read one study that indicated that there were a million new RV owners from 2005 to 2011, going from I think 8 million homes with RVs to 9 million.



A quick google shows that that trend is continuing or increasing.



YEAR RV SHIPMENTS



2016 430,691

2015 374,246

2014 356,735

2013 321,127

2012 285,749

2011 252,300



The Recreation Vehicle Industry Association: Business Indicators



That's a massive increase in units shipped per year.

Well yes it is but remember, there was a recession on back then that nearly killed the industry. The comment you were replying to referenced 1990s volumes. I have no idea what those numbers might be.

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by Joe-FL

First of all, you may have paid $100,000 for that brand new RV, but Thor only has about $45,000 to $50,000 invested in material/labor/profit to build it. You just gave that RV dealer around 100% profit. So ask yourself if you would still feel that same way if you only had $$55,000 invested in that brand new RV.



We only made the mistake of purchasing new once. The other two times we let someone else take the huge depreciation hit and get all the bugs worked out. Current Thor Challenger has been trouble free and is an excellent coach well worth what I paid for it.



We will soon be upgrading to larger DP. Will consider Thor, Tiffin, and Newmar. It certainly won't be a new coach. We are taking our time with our search knowing that all of these major brands have issues.



IMHO in you want to be a "happy camper" you have to buy a year or two old, know how to fix most things yourself and enjoy doing it, and understand that there is never going to be anything close to the same quality control in the RV industry as there is in the auto industry.

Well, you know, if you read some of the auto forums you will find very similar "horror stories" regarding quality. Read about Mercedes Benz and you'll never buy one! FWIW, my new Freedom Elite, has had some issues but in 6,000 miles and nearly 40 nights it has yet to go back to the dealer for anything. Furthermore, most of the complicated stuff is Ford. The rest of the machine is pretty simple and easy to diagnose and fix. It may crumble to dust the next time I use it but so far I'm pretty happy with it.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

Well yes it is but remember, there was a recession on back then that nearly killed the industry. The comment you were replying to referenced 1990s volumes. I have no idea what those numbers might be.

Yes, sales were steadily rising up until the crash in '08, where you saw a bunch of RV manufacturers either fold or get consolidated. Now, in the 7 years since the low point, unit sales are nearly back to where they were pre-crash.

That doesn't change the fact that year on year, units shipped are increasing significantly, and that plays a role in quality, as they pretty much are selling all they can produce.

I know earlier it was mentioned that it's mostly TT's, but 2016 compared to 2015, the largest percentage increase was in Class C's.

A lot of large, decked out SUVs are selling in the same price range as these entry level Class Cs and As from Thor and Forest River. Think about that and the fact that we expect the same quality in the rolling house as we due the Yukon Denali that sells for the same price.

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by tnedator

Yes, sales were steadily rising up until the crash in '08, where you saw a bunch of RV manufacturers either fold or get consolidated. Now, in the 7 years since the low point, unit sales are nearly back to where they were pre-crash.



That doesn't change the fact that year on year, units shipped are increasing significantly, and that plays a role in quality, as they pretty much are selling all they can produce.



I know earlier it was mentioned that it's mostly TT's, but 2016 compared to 2015, the largest percentage increase was in Class C's.



A lot of large, decked out SUVs are selling in the same price range as these entry level Class Cs and As from Thor and Forest River. Think about that and the fact that we expect the same quality in the rolling house as we due the Yukon Denali that sells for the same price.

Exactly! I was in my local Ford showroom the other day and there was a pickup truck on the floor with a sticker over $65,000. A pickup truck!! My 26 ft Class C "only" cost $55,000. There certainly is maintenance involved in these things but I think the value equation is pretty good.

[Bfdchief24]

I had a 2001 37ft. Forest River and had very few quality issues with it. Kept it for 6 years and got out of the the camping life until a few weeks ago when my Wife and I decided to by an RV!!!! When I got our 2017 Gemini 23tr home and I went over it I was also disappointed in the quality of the unit. I had 4 major issues and a couple minor issues. I fixed the minor ones and the dealer is going to fix the others.
As of right now I happy with the unit but if I had the issues that CustomerRS26 has I would not be.

[Travelin' Texans]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

Exactly! I was in my local Ford showroom the other day and there was a pickup truck on the floor with a sticker over $65,000. A pickup truck!! My 26 ft Class C "only" cost $55,000. There certainly is maintenance involved in these things but I think the value equation is pretty good.

For $65k you must have seen the work truck version!

[rick kirby]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

For $65k you must have seen the work truck version!

I paid 70 grand for my super duty platinum 3 years ago. It'll be closer to 75 grand now. Been a great truck with no issues what so ever.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

Exactly! I was in my local Ford showroom the other day and there was a pickup truck on the floor with a sticker over $65,000. A pickup truck!! My 26 ft Class C "only" cost $55,000. There certainly is maintenance involved in these things but I think the value equation is pretty good.

This was a major factor in our decision making when we decided to move-up from our 29' TT to something we could travel in. We have a 9 year old 1/2 ton truck and knew if we decided to go the fifth wheel route we would also need to get a new 3/4 ton truck. The cost of a new truck and the cost of a new fifth wheel greatly exceeded the cost of our class A and we could use an existing 2016 vehicle as a toad.

[keith herrington]

Like the OP I too own a Quantum RS26, a 2017 model bought new in March. And like the OP I've had my share of problems, some the same as his. Here are just a few:
a. The wiring under the unit looked like a drunk monkey did on a bad day. I took me several days of work to protect is all, zip tie it out of the way and protect it from damage, especially on the black and grey water sensors.
b. There was a 1" gap between the cab floor and the RV house floor the entire width of the cab. Hot air from underneath the vehicle was blasting into the cab as we traveled down the road. The factory was no help so I fixed it myself with closed cell foam and a strip of door molding. Looks good now and is air tight.
c. The floor of the cab got really hot from the exhaust headers and the transmission so I applied Thermo Tex heat shielding to the bottom of the cab above the headers and transmission. It helps considerably.
d. The unit handled very poorly, especially in a cross wind and when passed by trucks. Installed Helwig HD sway bars, Bilstein shocks and Timbrin bump stops front and rear, and a track bar on the back. Now it handles very predictably and is very stable.
e. Various pieces of inside trim have fallen off and will need to be replaced under warranty.
f. Various pieces of ill-fitting and/or improperly installed trim on the outside of the house will need to be replaced under warranty.
g. And lastly the roof is delaminating and will need to be replaced under warranty as well.

We bought the RV in March, and has never been on a trip. At most we stayed overnight at a local RV park to test the systems and have taken a few day trips to become familiar with its operation. So far we've put about 700 miles on it.

My wife and I did a lot of research before buying, bought from a dealer a few hours away so they could perform the maintenance and thought it smart to buy from a large manufacturer. But after reading Gerber's 63 page treatise on the state of the RV industry, I probably would have approached it differently.

We take our first long trip next week and I hope it performs up to standard. If not, that week will be a long one.

Keith

[Laco]

Thor has some QA problems, but in all honesty so do most, if not all other RV manufactures. Part of the problem, to keep costs down, many of the assemblers are not highly skilled, so depending on who happened to be on the line when a particular unit goes through, quality and assembly techniques can vary wildly from one unit to another. We have had our share of issues with the Gemini, some a result of seemily lazy assembly workers, some just plan carelessness. Fortunately the dealer was able to deal with the problems, and as of this moment, I believe all is functional.

[buckeywc]

I bought a used 2015 thore. So far I have had 4 leek's and a ruined cabenet. My fold up couch hits the cubbord door across from it. And it shakes really bad when I drive it. And the batteries are all bad. When it was sold to me it had two recalls. Most of these problems are not thores issues but I feel that camping world could have done a much better job checking this thing out

[sforl]

I got a call yesterday from Thor inquiring about the poor rating I gave them on a customer satisfaction survey. I explained the issues I have and what appears to be a lack of quality control on their part. I also told them that much of my disappointment in my unit was related to the poor quality of work I received when I took my MH back to CW for repairs.
The rep agreed that there was a serious problem with the workmanship being done today and that the turn over for workers in the plant is horrific. Basically by the time they get someone trained they quit. It's a vicious cycle.
That same problem is prevelant with the dealerships across the country. Lack of knowledgeable people available to do quality work.
As others have mentioned, this problem exist across the spectrum. This doesn't bode well for us as owners. It doesn't look as though the problem is going to get better any time soon.
The most frustrating thing to me is that when you can't get basic repairs done from the dealership, where do you go from there? Taking my MH back to the factory every time some little something pops up is not an option.
Also I don't have a great deal of confidence in the people at the factory. When I had issues with my tankless hot water heater, I called Thor and their service MANAGER kept insisting I check the bypass valve when there is no bypass valve. Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence when the so called experts don't know what they're talking about.
At this point I get most if not all the help I need from the people on this forum. For the more serious issues I have I will either go back to the factory or look for a dealership with a better service reputation than the one where I purchased my coach.
Sorry for the long post!

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by sforl

I got a call yesterday from Thor inquiring about the poor rating I gave them on a customer satisfaction survey. I explained the issues I have and what appears to be a lack of quality control on their part. I also told them that much of my disappointment in my unit was related to the poor quality of work I received when I took my MH back to CW for repairs.
The rep agreed that there was a serious problem with the workmanship being done today and that the turn over for workers in the plant is horrific. Basically by the time they get someone trained they quit. It's a vicious cycle.
That same problem is prevelant with the dealerships across the country. Lack of knowledgeable people available to do quality work.
As others have mentioned, this problem exist across the spectrum. This doesn't bode well for us as owners. It doesn't look as though the problem is going to get better any time soon.
The most frustrating thing to me is that when you can't get basic repairs done from the dealership, where do you go from there? Taking my MH back to the factory every time some little something pops up is not an option.
Also I don't have a great deal of confidence in the people at the factory. When I had issues with my tankless hot water heater, I called Thor and their service MANAGER kept insisting I check the bypass valve when there is no bypass valve. Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence when the so called experts don't know what they're talking about.
At this point I get most if not all the help I need from the people on this forum. For the more serious issues I have I will either go back to the factory or look for a dealership with a better service reputation than the one where I purchased my coach.
Sorry for the long post!

Maybe if they took care of their employees better there wouldn't be such a turnover. Probably treat them the same way they treat their customers.....

and dealers, from what I've heard.

[axis earl]

I have found a local RV service center that is family owned. One employee, a younger one, said he had been there for 12 years. I would try to find such a business close to home.

[sforl]

Axis Earl I think you have the right idea! I'm not sure how that would work as long as it's under warranty, but it's worth looking into!

[DogLovers]

My 2017 Synergy spent almost as much time back at the dealer as it did with me. First trip out of our driveway resulted in failed 120v, failed LP regulator, failed roof among dozens of smaller issues. General RV in Wayland Mich fixed "everything". So the second trip out of the home driveway resulted in failed 120v and me spending $442.99 to have the power switch replaced that General said was only lose wires causing too much resistance resulting in burned ends that they clipped and reattached to fix. Yep they really told me that. It failed the second time 1000 miles from home in South Dakota. I called the best most reputable repairman in that area and watched everything he did. He opened up the power switch box and it showed where General had clipped and put main power wires together with electrical tape. The door to the box was burned but not the wires that were taped proving General reassembled without replacing the switch and "after" a small fire. Of course they will deny it but I saw the proof myself. They put my family in jeopardy! I now have a new switch and wire assembly fixed safely and correctly. General also fixed the bath door handle that was coming off so naturally I now have to fix it again because it's still coming off. General also repaired for the third time the very poor radio reception on the cab and coach radios, both of which still have poor reception once you leave the driveway. The people at General RV are nice and polite but all that friendly service go's out the window when you have to deal with repeated repairs and dangerous shortcut fixes by a dealer. You have to call them out on this crap and make sure all future buyers are aware. It's the only way Thor will get better quality in their products. The plus side is this RV drives fantastic. I had no problems driving 500-700 miles a day. Great Mercedes chassis very comfortable on the road.