Quality Control of Thor

[Miramar Owner]

Well, here's my 2 cents worth. If you buy a new house today, you will have issues. Buy a new car, you will have issues. Buy a new fridge, washer or TV and you will have issues. You can buy used and hope someone else has fixed the problems but no guarantee.

The causes for all this basically fall into one of two categories...Design problems and poor work ethic. Design problems are either due to planned obsolescence as in appliances designed to last 10 years, or designing based on cost/profit only. I believe the "cost only/profit" issue explains the cars in the 70's.

I don't believe this is true for most of the issues I hear about or have experienced myself with RV's. I have had screws fall out or simply laying on the floor below cabinet drawers, loose clamps on the outside kitchen drain, slide missing metal plates for the rollers, hidden TV bracket missing all screws but one, sewer vent pipe improperly sealed and the list goes on. All of these problems are directly related to the work ethic of the employees.

I believe the auto industry solved this problem with automation 40 years ago. I know this may anger many but the work ethic of people under the age of 40, as a whole, is very poor.

For the most part I have been happy with my Miramar as far as design and functionality and most of the issues I fixed myself or were addressed by the dealer before I took delivery (great dealer). For the price I paid for it I am pleased. Owning a business and hiring employees, I understand the missing screws, etc. The only way around that is to buy a Newell Coach...hand built...about 30 per year...$2,000,000.

Most of us can't do that, so buy the best designed unit for you from the dealer that knows his stuff and stands behind it. Know you WILL have problems and be willing to fix minor things yourself. It's a house on wheels...not a car.

[rick kirby]

Originally Posted by Miramar Owner

Well, here's my 2 cents worth. If you buy a new house today, you will have issues. Buy a new car, you will have issues. Buy a new fridge, washer or TV and you will have issues. You can buy used and hope someone else has fixed the problems but no guarantee.



The causes for all this basically fall into one of two categories...Design problems and poor work ethic. Design problems are either due to planned obsolescence as in appliances designed to last 10 years, or designing based on cost/profit only. I believe the "cost only/profit" issue explains the cars in the 70's.



I don't believe this is true for most of the issues I hear about or have experienced myself with RV's. I have had screws fall out or simply laying on the floor below cabinet drawers, loose clamps on the outside kitchen drain, slide missing metal plates for the rollers, hidden TV bracket missing all screws but one, sewer vent pipe improperly sealed and the list goes on. All of these problems are directly related to the work ethic of the employees.



I believe the auto industry solved this problem with automation 40 years ago. I know this may anger many but the work ethic of people under the age of 40, as a whole, is very poor.



For the most part I have been happy with my Miramar as far as design and functionality and most of the issues I fixed myself or were addressed by the dealer before I took delivery (great dealer). For the price I paid for it I am pleased. Owning a business and hiring employees, I understand the missing screws, etc. The only way around that is to buy a Newell Coach...hand built...about 30 per year...$2,000,000.



Most of us can't do that, so buy the best designed unit for you from the dealer that knows his stuff and stands behind it. Know you WILL have problems and be willing to fix minor things yourself. It's a house on wheels...not a car.

I agree 100%. I have an awful time finding good workers under 40 yrs old.

[glamperjan]

Keith my black and grey tanks heaters fell off the week after I brought it home. New in April took tons of duct tape to put it back up until dealer ripped it all off and put it back up after washing the anti mold solution off the tanks. My cabinets are falling apart and they had to lift up the floor due to a big bubble by the steps. I believe the quality control has gone down the tubes with Thor.

[glamperjan]

Originally Posted by sforl

I got a call yesterday from Thor inquiring about the poor rating I gave them on a customer satisfaction survey. I explained the issues I have and what appears to be a lack of quality control on their part. I also told them that much of my disappointment in my unit was related to the poor quality of work I received when I took my MH back to CW for repairs.
The rep agreed that there was a serious problem with the workmanship being done today and that the turn over for workers in the plant is horrific. Basically by the time they get someone trained they quit. It's a vicious cycle.
That same problem is prevelant with the dealerships across the country. Lack of knowledgeable people available to do quality work.
As others have mentioned, this problem exist across the spectrum. This doesn't bode well for us as owners. It doesn't look as though the problem is going to get better any time soon.
The most frustrating thing to me is that when you can't get basic repairs done from the dealership, where do you go from there? Taking my MH back to the factory every time some little something pops up is not an option.
Also I don't have a great deal of confidence in the people at the factory. When I had issues with my tankless hot water heater, I called Thor and their service MANAGER kept insisting I check the bypass valve when there is no bypass valve. Doesn't instill a great deal of confidence when the so called experts don't know what they're talking about.
At this point I get most if not all the help I need from the people on this forum. For the more serious issues I have I will either go back to the factory or look for a dealership with a better service reputation than the one where I purchased my coach.
Sorry for the long post!

I never even got a customer satisfaction survey from Thor and I bought brand new from rcd sales in Pataskala!

[keith herrington]

Originally Posted by keith herrington

Like the OP I too own a Quantum RS26, a 2017 model bought new in March. And like the OP I've had my share of problems, some the same as his. Here are just a few:
a. The wiring under the unit looked like a drunk monkey did on a bad day. I took me several days of work to protect is all, zip tie it out of the way and protect it from damage, especially on the black and grey water sensors.
b. There was a 1" gap between the cab floor and the RV house floor the entire width of the cab. Hot air from underneath the vehicle was blasting into the cab as we traveled down the road. The factory was no help so I fixed it myself with closed cell foam and a strip of door molding. Looks good now and is air tight.
c. The floor of the cab got really hot from the exhaust headers and the transmission so I applied Thermo Tex heat shielding to the bottom of the cab above the headers and transmission. It helps considerably.
d. The unit handled very poorly, especially in a cross wind and when passed by trucks. Installed Helwig HD sway bars, Bilstein shocks and Timbrin bump stops front and rear, and a track bar on the back. Now it handles very predictably and is very stable.
e. Various pieces of inside trim have fallen off and will need to be replaced under warranty.
f. Various pieces of ill-fitting and/or improperly installed trim on the outside of the house will need to be replaced under warranty.
g. And lastly the roof is delaminating and will need to be replaced under warranty as well.

We bought the RV in March, and has never been on a trip. At most we stayed overnight at a local RV park to test the systems and have taken a few day trips to become familiar with its operation. So far we've put about 700 miles on it.

My wife and I did a lot of research before buying, bought from a dealer a few hours away so they could perform the maintenance and thought it smart to buy from a large manufacturer. But after reading Gerber's 63 page treatise on the state of the RV industry, I probably would have approached it differently.

We take our first long trip next week and I hope it performs up to standard. If not, that week will be a long one.

Keith

My wife and I picked up our RS26 Quantum from the dealer who has had it for nearly a month to address a wide variety of the issues described in e.-g. above. To their credit, the dealer got approval from Thor to repair all the issues I had concerns with to include the roof. The roof repair involved loosening the end cap where it attached to the roof laminate, stretching the roof laminate tight, reattaching it properly to the RV roof and reattaching the end cap where it meets the roof laminate. From what I can see by just looking at it, they did a superb job. All the other issues have been resolved as well, not including of course those issues described above that I addressed myself. We are now ready for our trip and plan on leaving Virginia Tuesday of next week, the 12th, just about the time Hurricane Irma, or what is left of her crosses our path as we head west. We'll have to watch the weather reports VERY carefully to make sure we don't do something really idiotic, like trying to drive in high winds.

So far our dealer has proven itself to be professional and sincerely interested in making sure we are happy customers. I'll let you all know how the RV performs on our 4000 mile round trip.

Keith

[Teeitup26]

Originally Posted by rick kirby

I told a Thor rep if they were like the auto industry where they have good inspectors and TAG problems and have a special repair line like the auto companies do, things would be better. Right now they push them out to the dealers, the dealers push them off on the buyers leaving it to the buyers to find all the issues, therefore end up paying $150 per hr for repairs instead of paying a worker $15 . They could drastically reduce their price, their costs and their customers. But sad to say, it's like the oil companies and hospitals, they charge what the market will bare.

All industries are bound by "what the market will bear" not bare. It's just that the RV industry has more demand than supply. The customer determines the actions of the company. If you keep buying they keep supplying. If you don't demand quality, they won't supply it. Amazon is a good example of a company that recognized that customer's were paying too much for everything, so they disrupt things by getting the product to the customer cheaper because the customer demands and wants it, and will pay for quick cheaper products delivered when they want them. RV industry hasn't had any stress put on it to deliver a quality product. Someone and i don't know who that will be will come up with a way to make a quality product at the same price Thor or Forest River or whoever does currently, and that will disrupt those mfg's ability to sell shitty products at high prices. Then things will change. Not until then. Period. End of story.

[petef]

Yes, I had so many things wrong that a moron working could have prevented when putting it together yet no. Amazing how bad. The Rv industry is lucky these motorhomes are not popular in Japan or Europe or we would have better quality choices..guess we are lucky for cheap gas, and get cheap motorhomes to burn it...

[Teeitup26]

Originally Posted by rick kirby

I agree 100%. I have an awful time finding good workers under 40 yrs old.

For the RV to automate and build an RV with quality equal to a new Ford F 150 for example? Are you kidding me. They build these products on a line with people who are able to show up for work and last an 8 hours shift and do exactly what they tell them. The problem is that if you want higher quality work you need higher quality labor, but if you pay for that higher quality labor you must charge higher prices to get a profit margin you need to make enough profit to run your business. And i'm not sure there's higher quality labor out there. So there you go. it's a non fixable problem currently. There is no labor available at the price these guys pay. The young people now are being lured into Google where they can sit at a computer and do there thing.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by rick kirby

I agree 100%. I have an awful time finding good workers under 40 yrs old.

Agreed. Not only have we had that issue with our business, but I recently built a house and the general contractors/carpenters were saying it was almost impossible to find any good subcontractors, because none of them could find reliable help.

It's a recurring theme whether it's lawn care companies, construction crews, manufacturing jobs, it's getting really hard to find people that will show up and work. That doesn't mean, show up and play on the phone, it's show up and work.

[sonnyh99]

Interesting Thread here.... lots of info from reading what everyone had to say. And I agree with Super D... the QC of these MH across all makes and model is a Major concern,. But after months of research and actually going to dealers and looking at MH, I find that Thor is the best bang for your $$. Again its just my opinion from what I personnel saw and compared. Just got back from a RV show is Sacramento. Looked at Chateaus,Quantum's, Winnebago, Forrest Rivers,Fleetwood,, and so on..
In a Winnebago I opened up a cabinet door and it literally fell out.. screws and all. Walked in a Forrest River and feel like I was going to fall through the floor. Chateaus the cabinets didn't fall apart but it was placed on crooked as hell.. End point is I am expecting to put in a few days,weeks of my time to fix and secure things myself. So I guess if you know before hand what to expect you can prevent somethings from failing.

BTW.. narrowed my search down to Chateau 31Y, 31W or the Quantum WS31.. one step closer to all the Fun adventures of owning a MH.

[saddlesore]

When it was time to replace our '99 Thor/Four Winds Infinity 34H.I went to the factory and witnessed their assembly line, and stood back and listened to a customer who had paid well into the 6 digits for a special ordered coach that started falling apart before he even got to the freeway...

I realized that if I wanted true "last a lifetime" quality in a coach I was gonna have to step up to the plate and spend some very serious $$ For a used coach, (There was no way I could afford a new one).. and have had less than a dozen issues that were taken care of within a week of notifying the mfg.

Low volume coach builders have a distinct advantage over mass producers, in that they can take the time to insure Quality builds using Quality components.
It took 7 months & three weeks to build our coach vs 7 to 21 days for the mass produced ones.
You can buy 3 or 4 new mass produced ones over a 10 or 15 year time span which will end up costing more than one low volume coach.... think about it...

[DogLovers]

With few exceptions everyone in here knows Thor Customer Warranty sucks it so big you have to buy a 18'X25' above ground pool to hold all their bullshit! Just sayin!

[Bob Denman]

Just put it all in the neighbor's pool...
You wouldn't want that mess in your own backyard anyway!

[saddlesore]

Something more to worry about Thor Construction/build issues..
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f121/2017...cs-362441.html
I posted this just for cross references to Thor issues.
This posting thread is NOT our former coach...
I no longer own a Thor product & haven't for quite a while.
see our by-line for current caoch

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

Something more to worry about Thor Construction/build issues..
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f121/2017...cs-362441.html
I posted this just for cross references to Thor issues.
This posting thread is NOT our former coach...
I no longer own a Thor product & haven't for quite a while.
see our by-line for current caoch

There's a much longer, more detailed thread about his problems and what's been done about it on this forum.

[saddlesore]

Originally Posted by tnedator

There's a much longer, more detailed thread about his problems and what's been done about it on this forum.

Good, & Thankyou, I have not seen that thread...I am very concerned that "newbie/first time buyers" will assume that all is well when it is not.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

Good, & Thankyou, I have not seen that thread...I am very concerned that "newbie/first time buyers" will assume that all is well when it is not.

Would be nice if all first time purchasers spent a little time on here, IRV2, Forest River forums, Airstream Forums, Phoenix Cruiser forums, etc.

Then, at least they would go into it with their eyes open, regardless of the brand (my sister's Tiffin is still having repairs done related to crap manufacturing on their 2012).

Not just a Thor problem, it's an industry problem, and people should make the purchase with their eyes open.

[JamieGeek]

They could just watch this too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP_u2JR51_Y

[Bob Denman]

This is becoming comical...
Does anyone in here actually believe that Thor is the only one building products like this?
Look around a bit, and get yourself some perspective.

Would it be nice if these rigs functioned perfectly? ABSOLUTELY!
Do you think that any manufacturer of RVs could stay in business, if they focused solely upon building a flawless product?
Does it stink? you betcha..

What would YOU do; if you ran Thor Motor Coach?.

[DogLovers]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

This is becoming comical...
Does anyone in here actually believe that Thor is the only one building products like this?
Look around a bit, and get yourself some perspective.

Would it be nice if these rigs functioned perfectly? ABSOLUTELY!
Do you think that any manufacturer of RVs could stay in business, if they focused solely upon building a flawless product?
Does it stink? you betcha..

What would YOU do; if you ran Thor Motor Coach?.

Well what have car manufacturers done over the years to boost quality? They redesigned the assembly system, out sourced components, modulized parts, tied employee and supervision to quality and building goals. If RV builders like Thor invested in such a program they would quickly rise to the top in producing the best product on the market driving their sales through the roof. But that's just consumer fantasy. Why would I dump millions in profits out of my pocket and into the factory when I'm already reaping huge profits? The real fix to the RV industry? Consumer protection laws. Time to lobby your congressmen and worthless senators to do something for us rather than just themselves!