Slide out problem

[jk in sa]

I have a Thor 4 Winds 2013 Ford Class C with 12 foot living room slide. One end of the slide stopped working about half way out. Was unable to extend or retract. Seems one of the two motors stopped. Was able to disconnect the power to the dual motor synchronus slide controller to manually push the slide back in. Thought first I would check for a bad fuse but fuse panel under bed does not seem to show a fuse for these motors. Is there an in-line fuse somewhere? If not a fuse problem, where are the motors located....I looked underneath the chassis but didn't see them. Are they both side-by-side or separate? Near the rail ends? What is best/easiest method to troubleshoot the problem? (Batteries are fully charged). If the motor died, where can I find one online for a reasonable price? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Btw, does my unit have a mechanical or hydraulic system? And, are there any repair videos online?

[schreinertms]

Do you know if this class C is equipped with Schwintek slider components? One way to confirm is if the top and bottom of the slider side walls have a rail that looks like a gear track.

[VanVFam]

Our ACE will do that sometimes when the coach has gone out of perfect level. Of course we use the autolevelers when we set up camp, but if we are not on a cement surface, the coach will settle out of level during the period of a few days. We've learned the hard way to double check our level using a manual level before trying to bring the slide in (especially if it rains while we are camping). Not sure if your class C could be having the same issue

[EA37TS]

Have you looked at the controller to determine the error code?

The motors are generally mounted at the top of the slide one on each side. The slide has to be partially retracted to get at them.

[jk in sa]

In response to the kind 3 people who commented:

1. The top and bottom rails have gear-type tracks.

2. Our coach does not have auto levelers. It was level at the time the slide-out stopped working so doubt this was the cause of the problem. However, I didn't know that being off level could cause this problem.

3. The controller is located in the rear of a small compartment accessible from the outside of the rig underneath the slide-out. It is hard to reach, let alone see the details printed on it. I was able to disconnect the wires and reconnect them but did not see any potential code display. My eyesight at that distance is not the best but believe I would have noted any lights-- assuming that I should be looking for a code light sequence of some kind. Can you tell me more about the code situation please.

Also, if the motors are located on either end of the top rail/gear track, they must be recessed into the side wall of the rig and it appears that to access them, I would need to remove a strip-like molding (about 2 inches wide) from the inside wall behind the sofa bed. I did note that a cable enters the top of the molding strip and apparently runs down behind it hopefully to the motor/s. Does that sound about right? In any event, that looks like a very difficult place to access which is why I haven't yet done so.

[JamieGeek]

Video on motor replacement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DviEbWT3lUo

This video you may also find helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGL4aILZYcY

and a troubleshooting video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xojUdPDWNS0

[jk in sa]

Wow! A picture is word a thousand words as the saying goes. Thanks so much for the 3 videos. Just before you sent the videos I was poking around the internet (and thanks to one of the other guys who identified that my slideout was a Schwintek), I found a site which layed out a 5 page troubleshooting procedure. Now with all that, I shall be able to proceed with some basic knowledge. Hopefully I will get some time this week or next to tackle it. Thanks everybody.

P.S. As a suggestion to anybody following this thread, I would highly recommend you watch the 3 videos to gain some basic knowledge should you experience this potential problem.

[EA37TS]

Here is a picture of my slide controller when the cable came unplugged from my motor during the shakedown cruise. The code sequence is the number of red flashes between green flashes.

Not sure if you have the same model controller and the error codes are different between the models.

I recommend getting a mechanics articulated mirror so you can see and read the code. Or wait until dark and then you should be able to count the flashes in the dark compartment.

[jk in sa]

I just wanted to follow-up and thank everybody for their input. Turns out the problem was the motor on one side. Seems the Schwintek motor may have never been properly seated in the position meant to keep it from rotating (torquing) when in operation. The screw which held the motor in place on the
outside of the RV did not line up properly with the slot in the motor and was actually pressing against the motor body about 3/16 inch above the slot. Whenever I would run the slide, it appears the motor would torque about a half inch as evident of the marks where the screw was pressing the motor body and consequently tearing tiny bits of metal from the motor body (tiny filings really) that would be drawn into the slot opening and hence into the motor winding due to magnetism. I believe the filings gradually caused the motor to fail. I further believe that the problem stemmed from the original assembly of the the slideout at the factory as it was apparent that the motor was not properly seated and the screw to hold it in place was hastily installed missing the slot. When I installed the replacement motor, I made sure it seated properly (4 set screws on the bottom of the motor must line up with holes in the place where the motor sits) and when I installed the screw from the outside to hold the motor in place, it entered the slot properly to prevent the motor from torquing. Seems to work just fine now.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Video on motor replacement:

....cut....

He mentions near end of video that this is a new redesigned motor system that makes it easier to remove motors from inside the coach. Any idea when this new design was implemented?

[Metalman]

A comment about leveling the motorhome. Our leveling system had a leak on one of the legs so I removed the leg and capped off the down hydraulic line and inserted a coupling in the up hydraulic lines. We used the RV for a while without the leveler by driving it on planks to level it. I discovered that if the RV is level before the slide outs are deployed, the weight of the slide out will cause the RV to lean to that side when the slide out is extended. Therefore, I leveled the RV with the slide out side slighter higher to compensate for the suspension sag.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by jk in sa

Wow! A picture is word a thousand words as the saying goes. Thanks so much for the 3 videos. Just before you sent the videos I was poking around the internet (and thanks to one of the other guys who identified that my slideout was a Schwintek), I found a site which layed out a 5 page troubleshooting procedure. Now with all that, I shall be able to proceed with some basic knowledge. Hopefully I will get some time this week or next to tackle it. Thanks everybody.

P.S. As a suggestion to anybody following this thread, I would highly recommend you watch the 3 videos to gain some basic knowledge should you experience this potential problem.

I agree watching the videos is a great idea, but should be put in context.

I would have preferred if the third video was done on an actual motorhome rather than a simple plywood mockup. To me it appears a little deceptive.

They make manual overriding the drive look easy, but for starters the motors in an actual RV would be roughly 10-ft off the ground, so the person would be working off a 6-ft ladder at minimum.

Once the motors are disengaged, we would only be able to push the slide inward near the bottom, unlike the video where he pushes in center between the racks and also wiggles the room mockup to get drives to move.

Lastly, that empty slide-room box in video didn't appear to weigh much at all, and he still had to lean into it to get it to move. If it was a real RV slide room loaded down with furniture, appliances, and utility connections, I can't even start to imagine how many strong adults it would take to push a slide in.

I actually learned a few useful things from the videos (including the need for ladder, precut 2X4s, etc.), but we have to remember these videos are marketing tools and therefore were created in the best possible light to make the system look as attractive as possible. That's understandable, but it doesn't necessarily represent reality for many owners.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Lastly, that empty slide-room box in video didn't appear to weigh much at all, and he still had to lean into it to get it to move. If it was a real RV slide room loaded down with furniture, appliances, and utility connections, I can't even start to imagine how many strong adults it would take to push a slide in.

I actually learned a few useful things from the videos (including the need for ladder, precut 2X4s, etc.), but we have to remember these videos are marketing tools and therefore were created in the best possible light to make the system look as attractive as possible. That's understandable, but it doesn't necessarily represent reality for many owners.

A couple of other points:

Those motors aren't very big so the slide must be well balanced and have additional "rollers" (hence the problems with the full wall slides not working well with the Schwintek system when the rollers aren't installed properly). Thus it may not take a lot of oomph to push the slide in.

The other thing not mentioned there: A user may not have the best access to the motor (like in the Axis/Vegas 24.1 the motor towards the rear of the camper: Inside access is blocked by the bathroom wall).

Our Axis came with a slide-lock. The only time I would even consider using it is if there was an issue and I had removed the motors. No precut 2x4 is necessary: The slide-lock should suffice.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

A couple of other points:

Those motors aren't very big so the slide must be well balanced and have additional "rollers" (hence the problems with the full wall slides not working well with the Schwintek system when the rollers aren't installed properly). Thus it may not take a lot of oomph to push the slide in.

The other thing not mentioned there: A user may not have the best access to the motor (like in the Axis/Vegas 24.1 the motor towards the rear of the camper: Inside access is blocked by the bathroom wall).

Our Axis came with a slide-lock. The only time I would even consider using it is if there was an issue and I had removed the motors. No precut 2x4 is necessary: The slide-lock should suffice.

Great point on not being able to access motors from inside in some cases depending on layout. In that case you'd have to pull it out or disengage from outside. That's also the case if the slide fails in fully-extended position where access to the motors from inside is limited.

Because of gearing, it doesn't necessarily take much power to move a slide. It may take a huge amount of force, but because they are moved a short distance at very low speeds, it doesn't take much power (as in horsepower or watts).

The problem I see is that the rollers support the weight, but because of their location, the entire slide room tries to pivot out from the top. The only thing that appears to prevent that from happening is the top and bottom rack-and-pinion drives fighting each other -- one pulls in and the other out. It may not be obvious, but I'm pretty sure that under load these drives are not going to want to rotate freely.

I'm just saying that when you try to push one of these slides manually, it's not necessarily the weight-carrying rollers that will resist the most. If it were just the rollers it would move easily. I've moved 2,000-pound engines on a hoist by pushing or pulling with one hand (steel wheels on steel rails have very little resistance).

In the case of slides, I believe the drives at top and bottom have some built-in friction that will resist motion even if the motors are disengaged. The heavier the slide the more these will want to bind and make it harder to push the slide in manually.

I'm just making an educated guess here, but if I was going to try to push a slide close by hand, I would push inward as high as possible to minimize gearing friction. If that wasn't possible because of height, I would then try to lift up on outer edge of slide room while pushing inward.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

The problem I see is that the rollers support the weight, but because of their location, the entire slide room tries to pivot out from the top. The only thing that appears to prevent that from happening is the top and bottom rack-and-pinion drives fighting each other -- one pulls in and the other out. It may not be obvious, but I'm pretty sure that under load these drives are not going to want to rotate freely.

Actually if you look closely at the Schwintek mechanism: The motor at the top just drives a shaft all the way down to the bottom gear. Thus without the motors the top and bottom should remain aligned (provided the rack & pinions aren't damaged) due to the shaft.

The problem with the timing is left-right, not top bottom as that is mechanically connected.

In addition: The gear reduction is part of the motor unit, by removing the motor you're also removing the reduction gears leaving the pinions free to rotate with very little resistance.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Actually if you look closely at the Schwintek mechanism: The motor at the top just drives a shaft all the way down to the bottom gear. Thus without the motors the top and bottom should remain aligned (provided the rack & pinions aren't damaged) due to the shaft.

The problem with the timing is left-right, not top bottom as that is mechanically connected.

In addition: The gear reduction is part of the motor unit, by removing the motor you're also removing the reduction gears leaving the pinions free to rotate with very little resistance.

Jamie, I know how the top and bottom are synchronized by being driven from one common shaft per side -- that part is obvious. But I'm not referring to timing, which is also obvious.

What I expect is not as obvious is what I tried to explain, but apparently failed in describing clearly enough.

Just because you remove the motors, it doesn't mean that the top and bottom drives are not under opposing (and equal) loads. Keep in mind I'm talking about forces, not timing.

Pinions, while they will rotate on rack under load, will not do so without some friction. No mechanical drive is 100% efficient because of friction. And it's that friction I'm referring to. When we manually push a slide in, we are driving one pinion against the other (although both rotate in same direction).

Anyway, it doesn't really matter other than the fact that slides as presently designed will not be easy to move by hand. And I'm certain it goes well beyond the weight of the slide room on the rollers.

[UDFDH]

Thank you for the video helps. Will help us to search for problem and repair the issue on our slide. Still opens and closes but is flashing a code.

[JamieGeek]

Well my point was simply that the slide will not tilt that much due to the linkage. Sure pushing in the proper spot (about dead center) will work much better than pushing in around the edge.

Even our little one couch slide would probably take multiple people to push it in; just saying it won't be completely stuck.

[Campingwithourgemini]

Thank you everyone for the posts and videos on slide issues. We are sitting about 600 miles from home with our slide hanging out and a faulty lippert one touch control board that won’t allow us to bring the slide back in. Now, I should be able to get back home tomorrow.

[QuietCountry]

So, we have determined we likely have the Schwintek brand and we’ve narrowed it down to the motor. Where to order the parts? Should I take the motor out and look for a part number?