Slide out Manual Over ride

[BuzzDoc]

I’ve searched the forum and am now well versed in what at a POC the Schwintek Lippert full wall slide out system is.

My current issue is that it will start then stop after a second when pushing the retract or extend switch. The error code flashes indicating wire short between controller and motor 2. However if I do the Manual Override (6 pushes and hold on 7) I can get the slide to fully retract or extend.

My question is if there is a short then how does the over ride work? What should my first steps be. Do I need to do a continuity check in the cable that runs from the controller to the motor? Seems to me if there is a short the over ride would not work. How do I know if the controller is just bad?

Or is there some secret reset I can do?

This is a 2016 Windsport 34F

[Judge]

You have an encoder issue on one of your motors based on the information you provided that the motor turns for a second or two and then stops.

If one of the wires carrying power to the motor was damaged, then it would not try to move for a second or two and the override would not work. You would then have to remove the set screw that holds the motor down and lift the motor out of the bearing block so you could push the slide in manually.

The encoder records the motor RPM's so the Controller can keep both motors in sync. The motor will still spin with an encoder error and that is why the override works. There is no magic fix and there are several possibilities that is causing it.

These are in the order of most likely cause.....

- The encoder got knocked off the top of the motor
- One of the wires for the encoder is pinched / shorted or broken
- The encoder has had a failure
- There is a pinch / short or broken wire in the wiring harness that connects the motor to the Controller


Read the error code to determine if it is Motor #1 (Front) or Motor #2 (Rear)... assuming Thor wired it properly. Then with the slide ~6" away from the inside wall, pull back the bulb seal at the top of the H-Column where you will see the wiring entering.

Then look to see if the white plastic cover is on top of the motor, knocked to the side or missing. The plastic piece covers the encoder. The lousy design using the small set screw to hold the motor down is not enough to keep the motor from trying to lift out and if it moves enough the slide box can knock off the cover and dislodge the encoder. The encoder is the a small round green circuit board at the top of the motor. If it is loose or knocked off the top of the motor, that will cause the error.

If the plastic cover looks to be undisturbed, look at the wiring coming out of the motor and connecting to the harness that goes to the Controller. Look for any chaffed, pinched or broken wires.

If you still don't see anything, try unplugging the motor from the harness and reconnecting to see reseating the contacts help.

If you can't find anything else, then the encoder may have failed and the motor will need to be replaced.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by BuzzDoc

Or is there some secret reset I can do?

This is a 2016 Windsport 34F

I have the same issue and I recently found out that when you push 6 times the button and keep holding the 7th time, you also erase the controllers reference.
An evidence of that is that when you fully open or close the slides (w/o overriding) the motors stop working at different times.
That is the reason why after EVERY override you need to resinc the motors (fully open, then close 3 inches, then fully open and keep pushing the switch until the motors stop, repeat this sequence until the two motors stop at the same time when opening).
What I learned helps:
1 - Only level manually
2 - Lub the square groves in all tracks every other trip
3 - Resinc the motors after each override

Doing this I was able to make our last trip w/o having to override a single time. The only time when that happened was when the MH was new.

[BuzzDoc]

So to be clear. The sync action is fully open then close partially then open and repeat until synced? I had heard it was fully open then fully closed then full open repeat till synced.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

I have the same issue and I recently found out that when you push 6 times the button and keep holding the 7th time, you also erase the controllers reference.
An evidence of that is that when you fully open or close the slides (w/o overriding) the motors stop working at different times.
That is the reason why after EVERY override you need to resinc the motors (fully open, then close 3 inches, then fully open and keep pushing the switch until the motors stop, repeat this sequence until the two motors stop at the same time when opening).
What I learned helps:
1 - Only level manually
2 - Lub the square groves in all tracks every other trip
3 - Resinc the motors after each override

Doing this I was able to make our last trip w/o having to override a single time. The only time when that happened was when the MH was new.

You should not be using the override with any regularity. If you do, there is an issue at the root cause for needing to use the override.

If you motors are getting out of sync regularly, make sure you are holding the Extend / Retract button 2 - 3 seconds after the motors stop.

I would also be very careful lubing the tracks. That is no longer a recommended LCI / Schwintek maintenance procedure. If you choose to do it, you should be using a dry lube (PFTE) that won't allow dirt to accumulate in the tracks. You should not have to be lubing every other trip for it to work properly.

Leveling first is the best practice... especially manually leveling so you are good there.

You could have other issues like floor rollers out of adjustment or something obstructing the movement of the slide and causing issues.

[BuzzDoc]

Thanks Judge. I replaced both motors this spring and wrapped the plastic cover with layers of electrical tape. I’m nearing the end of four week trip so will probably just keep doing the override until I’m home. Then investigate the wiring.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by BuzzDoc

Thanks Judge. I replaced both motors this spring and wrapped the plastic cover with layers of electrical tape. I’m nearing the end of four week trip so will probably just keep doing the override until I’m home. Then investigate the wiring.

I have been using third-party motors instead of LCI motors. The third-party ones are using a heavy duty shrink wrap over the top half of the motor to secure the plastic cover and protect the encoder better.

I carry a spare 30' motor harness for troubleshooting (and a Controller - but the Controllers rarely fail). I can connect the 30' cable to the front or back motor and then run it out a window to the Controller to easily verify the main harness is not the problem.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by BuzzDoc

So to be clear. The sync action is fully open then close partially then open and repeat until synced? I had heard it was fully open then fully closed then full open repeat till synced.

Correct.... here it is right out of then manual. LCI says close the slide 1 - 2" but I usually do it a little more than that.... maybe 3 - 4". Usually 3 or 4 times and it is all good.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Judge

You should not be using the override with any regularity....

If you motors are getting out of sync regularly, make sure you are holding the Extend / Retract button 2 - 3 seconds after the motors stop.

I would also be very careful lubing the tracks...

Leveling first is the best practice...

You could have other issues ....

Judge, there is what they say and there is what practical use and real world testing demonstrate.
The entire system (tracks, motors, etc) where changed one year ago under warranty and this year, If I had not override every single time until this last trip, I would not have traveled.
I'm with you on the point that the system is good for small slides but not robust enough to handle a 24ft slide like mine.
My motors get out of sink because I have to override, as I proved this last trip, they work fine after I sincronize them... I do hold the (virtual)buttom for 5 seconds after the slides finish the move but you can only do that if you are not in override mode otherwise you will be popping fuses or damaging the motors for the controller will be sending power to the motors as long as you press the buttom.

As for lubing the tracks, I don't do that, I only lube the guide channel and that with the PTFD lube that lippert used to recommend for this. I don't lube the pinnion as they used to recomend, just the guides channel that are very tight fit and cause drag.

A part of the problem, in my opinion, is the auto leveling program.
It has a feature that, if the coach is level w/o the leveling jacks, the system will UNLEVEL first and then level the MH.
It happens that it does that, at least in my case, by lowering the front left jack and then the rear right that, causing a twist in the MH frame and therefore, I imagine, a lot of stress on the huge slide mechanism.
I could confirm this in this last trip:
I sincronized the motors before the trip, then during the trip I only level manually and the slide worked perfectly then (I know, my stupidity ) at the last stop (overnight) I leveled using the auto function and surprise! the next morning I had to override because the slide jammed 3 inches in.... So in my humble () oppinion, the auto leveling program is part of the problem. I checked my adjustable rollers and they are not collapsed, they are ok so, based on an (almost) successful trip, I'm reaching the conclusion the combination of a system that is not robust enough with a leveling system that twist the coach chassis lead to too much drag on motor number 2 (the one in the back of the coach) and that leads to a "short between controller and motor number 2" fail condition....
Interesting is that, according to schintek service manual, the short safeguard is still on when you override so if you really had a short the slide would not move even in override and that what the controller is really telling us is that there is too much drag at motor number 2....
Anyway, I have an appointment at the Thor in Elkart for end of this month to check/fix this. It will be my last attempt before going Vroom (which I contacted but have not gotten a response back yet).
I was able to make the system work for an entire trip so I have hope but I may just be .... lets see...

[Judge]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Judge, there is what they say and there is what practical use and real world testing demonstrate.
The entire system (tracks, motors, etc) where changed one year ago under warranty and this year, If I had not override every single time until this last trip, I would not have traveled.
I'm with you on the point that the system is good for small slides but not robust enough to handle a 24ft slide like mine.
My motors get out of sink because I have to override, as I proved this last trip, they work fine after I sincronize them... I do hold the (virtual)buttom for 5 seconds after the slides finish the move but you can only do that if the motors are sincronized, if they are not, you will be popping fuses or damaging the motors for the controller will be sending power to the motors as long as you press the buttom if the motors are not sincronized.

As for lubing the tracks, I don't do that, I only lube the guide channel and that with the PTFD lube that lippert used to recommend for this. I don't lube the pinnion as they used to recomend, just the guides channel that are very tight fit and cause drag.

A part of the problem, in my opinion, is the auto leveling program.
It has a feature that, if the coach is level w/o the leveling jacks, the system will UNLEVEL first and then level the MH.
It happens that it does that, at least in my case, by lowering the front left jack and then the rear right that, causing a twist in the MH frame and therefore, I imagine, a lot of stress on the huge slide mechanism.
I could confirm this in this last trip:
I sincronized the motors before the trip, then during the trip I only level manually and the slide worked perfectly then (I know, my stupidity ) at the last stop (overnight) I leveled using the auto function and surprise! the next morning I had to override because the slide jammed 3 inches in.... So in my humble () oppinion, the auto leveling program is part of the problem. I checked my adjustable rollers and they are not collapsed, they are ok so, based on an (almost) successful trip, I'm reaching the conclusion the combination of a system that is not robust enough with a leveling system that twist the coach chassis lead to too much drag on motor number 2 (the one in the back of the coach) and that leads to a "short between controller and motor number 2" fail condition....
Interesting is that, according to schintek service manual, the short safeguard is still on when you override so if you really had a short the slide would not move even in override and that what the controller is telling us is that there is too much drag at motor number 2....
Anyway, I have an appointment at the Thor in Elkart for end of this month to check/fix this. It will be my last attempt before going Vroom (which I contacted but have not gotten a response back yet).
I was able to make the system work for an entire trip so I have hope but I may just be .... lets see...

You are correct.... the Schwintek Mechanism just can't reliably handle these large and heavy slides. If LCI was smart, they would buy the Vroom design and make it their own.

Vroom is not doing slides over 22' at this point because they have been finding too many other issues with the large slides (roller problems, floor issues, etc.) and Vroom isn't an RV repair shop equipped to handle those issues. They can do a rip and replace in a day but they are finding too many other problems so they have been working to get RV Shops onboard with their system.

You may want to try Patriot RV in Texas or Connecticut Motor Cars and Coaches. There is also a place in Southern California but I can't remember the name.

Someone else posted that Patriot RV wants to see the coach and provide an estimate first..... probably because of the types of issues Vroom has been seeing. That person said some estimates are upwards of $7000!

My wife just read online this morning Vroom is now charging $4500 for a rip and replace.... so inflation and demand has really shot up the pricing for their system.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Judge

Vroom is not doing slides over 22' ...

You may want to try Patriot RV in Texas or Connecticut Motor Cars and Coaches.

... some estimates are upwards of $7000!

My wife just read online this morning Vroom is now charging $4500 for a rip and replace....

Based on what I have seeing in my MH, I don't have the floor/roller issue so (I hope) If I have to go Vroom, it will not be that high $...
I have an extended warranty plan and hopefully, they will cover that.
During almost 2 1/2 years, the slide worked fine only during the first 3 trips and for all the others I had to override 90% of the time so the system can survive my condition and to me it became just the inconvenience of having to override everytime.... which will be the worst case scenario If Vroom or the guys in Connecticut cant/will not work on my rig.... I may endup racking the controller and setting override as a default condition.... hahaha...Lets see.