Thor's poor workmanship

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by DaveB1

It looks like the bed is not fully lowered, which would explain the ladder height issue. Look at the factory photo in the link below. There is definitely a difference. Is there an obstruction to prevent fully lowering the bed perhaps?



https://media.thormotorcoach.com/med...rhead-bunk.jpg

THAT would be truly rich if he were indeed so incapable.

God, I hope not....

[k.maslowski@comcast.net]

The electrical outlet is not a big issue. If I find one not to my liking, I just turn it around. The plumbing is an issue. To me this is a case of workers just working. Never reporting conditions that don't look right. If reported, and processes do not correct the issue, then production management is to blame. Perhaps production quotas. "Just build them, damn it!" Not a good trend.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by DaveB1

It looks like the bed is not fully lowered, which would explain the ladder height issue. Look at the factory photo in the link below. There is definitely a difference. Is there an obstruction to prevent fully lowering the bed perhaps?

Class C cab over beds do not raise and lower, their is a center section that comes out so you can get in and out of the driver and passenger seat, but the bed is stationary.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by ducksface

THAT would be truly rich if he were indeed so incapable.

God, I hope not....

Maybe the Incapable person is the one making stupid comments without any knowledge of what they are commenting on.
But you do that a lot so I guess its expected.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

Class C cab over beds do not raise and lower, their is a center section that comes out so you can get in and out of the driver and passenger seat, but the bed is stationary.

Exactly, that looks just like the Omni XG32 I HAD and as KW said, it's fixed. While I haven't seen all motorhomes, the front cap beds that raise and lower are some A's. I would also say mainly gas As.

[Pillbox]

Wait, I want to go back to how we butter our toast.
I butter my bread, then put it in the toaster….smokes out the kitchen, kills mosquitoes, and ruins the toast…..oh wait, my bad, Thor QC.
Toaster plug was sideways, thus I thought the butter would stay on. I should have seen that during my PDI, but, salesman did not offer me any bread.
Did I miss anything?
Terry

Chunker and Kevin, you guys make me laugh.

[MJC62]

Seems we have this conversation every few months when a new member decides to vent their frustrations to the rest of the forum. Hey and that's ok, it's good to vent better for the blood pressure!
Reality is Thor Motor Coach and Thor Industries are the largest manufacturer of recreational vehicles in the country, maybe worldwide. Thor Motor Coach alone builds 31 models with 120 floor plans (per the TMC web page) I add this for perspective on how many Thor coaches are out there.

This is not a pass for crappy assembly, but you are buying a complete house on wheels for what 150K? How does any manufacturer meet that price point? Cheap labor, cheap components and speed in assembly.

[MLP]

Look this is not just a THOR problem, but an almost entire RV industry problem. It is not just a THOR problem. You pay for a two million dollar rig and maybe a problem or two maybe not and fixed ASAP. 135k to 750k rig well you are getting a cookie cutter rig. Nicer the higher you go and maybe better with less problems, but still all manufactures are trying to get the cheapest labor possible. So...

That being said, a lot if not most complaints are for purchased products by the RV manufacture such as, fans, refrigerators, ovens, stoves, TV's, tires, furniture etc. that carry a manufactures warranty on them. If you want a product with all components tested like NASA or MIL products are, you want a 500 million to 1 billion dollar rig.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

Maybe the Incapable person is the one making stupid comments without any knowledge of what they are commenting on.
But you do that a lot so I guess its expected.

In NC we call it a dry sense of humor. Life is short. Pour a glass of port. And hope your glass cooktop cover doesn’t explode!

[chunker21]

Some will have good luck with their thor product, some not. First lets distinguish the differences between an RV that is under the thor financial umbrella and a thor motor coach, or thor "branded" motorhome. My gripe is with thor branded ones. Luck is what it takes to have a good one. Why such?. Because there is no meaningful Quality Assurance QA at the factor and as such no Quality Control or QC. There are no meaningful standards on how some components are assembled QA and as such no way to check or know if it's incorrect or flawed, QC. Without examples my statement is without merit.

Propane lines; there is no apparent defined routing of the propane lines under the house so they could be anywhere convenient that the assembler puts them. What QC could say it's not correct since there's no standard or QA? HDMI cables; No schematics that the factory follows for routing the cables so asking for help to re-route one is useless, they don't know how it was originally.

Front Cap; Needs its own paragraph. A proper and meaningful QA would establish that the front cap is attached to the body with "examples given only for clarity" 10 size #8 1" self tapping screws spaced 5.5" apart and torqued to a value of 35 inch pounds. QC would inspect the process to make sure the correct number and size fasteners were used and would spot check the equipment to make sure the correct setting were on the screw guns. That is a simplified example of a meaningful factory QA and QC. You know that the Ford or Freightliner factory building the chassis follows rigid assembly and manufacturing standards.

Every stage of the manufacturing process should have established and written standards, QA, so that the product produced has the fewest deficiencies and so QC can verify that process and claim. With an RV LUCK is required mostly to have a good one and with thor a whole bunch of luck is needed.

Thor in my opinion is dangerous and criminally negligent in the factory processes. The routing of the propane lines is one example and the front cap another. A member reports generator exhaust fumes entering the cab while driving and running the generator. The cab of my FORMER omni was drafty, leaky. When it was warm out you couldn't really feel it but when cold the drafty conditions were very noticeable. I first thought is was a window open a bit but all were secure. That drafty leaky cab to house attachment not being sealed allows outside air and fumes in that can be deadly. Carbon monoxide poisoning is deadly for those who don't know. For those who will say to take $.65 of sealer and 7 minutes to fix the leaks, where does one begin to make the repair since asking Thor CS won't provide answers since they don't really know how it was built that day.

Besides dangerous in their factory processes, thor is sloppy and deliberately substandard. Everything from poorly performing plumbing, flimsy shower stalls, lack of real and dedicated heating and cooling ducting, selection of lowest level of components (leveling system, A/V, HCAC, furniture, etc.) just makes for a sloppy crappy motorhome.

Finally lets differentiate between the thor owned RV such as Keystone, Airstream, Entegra, Tiffin, and others, and the tour BRANDED motorhome such as OMNI/magnitude and others. I have had 2 Keystone Raptor toy hauler 5th wheels that were well constructed. Mostly it appears that thor corporate allows those divisions to operate and establish their QA and QC, at least for the time being. If given the choice currently between a Keystone Raptor and a Grand Design Momentum, I'd now select the GD.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by chunker21

...Finally lets differentiate between the thor owned RV such as Keystone, Airstream, Entegra, Tiffin, and others, and the tour BRANDED motorhome such as OMNI/magnitude and others. I have had 2 Keystone Raptor toy hauler 5th wheels that were well constructed. Mostly it appears that thor corporate allows those divisions to operate and establish their QA and QC, at least for the time being. If given the choice currently between a Keystone Raptor and a Grand Design Momentum, I'd now select the GD.

They DO seem able to operate autonomously...
And I hope that they continue to do so.

[fhenn]

Play nice this thread is on the boarder of insults. Ifit continues we will shut it down

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by fhenn

Play nice this thread is on the boarder of insults. Ifit continues we will shut it down

I apologize and will edit my recent post

EDIT; Fixed and nicer

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Some will have good luck with their thor product, some not. First lets distinguish the differences between an RV that is under the thor financial umbrella and a thor motor coach, or thor "branded" motorhome. My gripe is with thor branded ones. Luck is what it takes to have a good one. Why such?. Because there is no meaningful Quality Assurance QA at the factor and as such no Quality Control or QC. There are no meaningful standards on how some components are assembled QA and as such no way to check or know if it's incorrect or flawed, QC. Without examples my statement is without merit.

Propane lines; there is no apparent defined routing of the propane lines under the house so they could be anywhere convenient that the assembler puts them. What QC could say it's not correct since there's no standard or QA? HDMI cables; No schematics that the factory follows for routing the cables so asking for help to re-route one is useless, they don't know how it was originally.

Front Cap; Needs its own paragraph. A proper and meaningful QA would establish that the front cap is attached to the body with "examples given only for clarity" 10 size #8 1" self tapping screws spaced 5.5" apart and torqued to a value of 35 inch pounds. QC would inspect the process to make sure the correct number and size fasteners were used and would spot check the equipment to make sure the correct setting were on the screw guns. That is a simplified example of a meaningful factory QA and QC. You know that the Ford or Freightliner factory building the chassis follows rigid assembly and manufacturing standards.

Every stage of the manufacturing process should have established and written standards, QA, so that the product produced has the fewest deficiencies and so QC can verify that process and claim. With an RV LUCK is required mostly to have a good one and with thor a whole bunch of luck is needed.

Thor in my opinion is dangerous and criminally negligent in the factory processes. The routing of the propane lines is one example and the front cap another. A member reports generator exhaust fumes entering the cab while driving and running the generator. The cab of my FORMER omni was drafty, leaky. When it was warm out you couldn't really feel it but when cold the drafty conditions were very noticeable. I first thought is was a window open a bit but all were secure. That drafty leaky cab to house attachment not being sealed allows outside air and fumes in that can be deadly. Carbon monoxide poisoning is deadly for those who don't know. For those who will say to take $.65 of sealer and 7 minutes to fix the leaks, where does one begin to make the repair since asking Thor CS won't provide answers since they don't really know how it was built that day.

Besides dangerous in their factory processes, thor is sloppy and deliberately substandard. Everything from poorly performing plumbing, flimsy shower stalls, lack of real and dedicated heating and cooling ducting, selection of lowest level of components (leveling system, A/V, HCAC, furniture, etc.) just makes for a sloppy crappy motorhome.

Finally lets differentiate between the thor owned RV such as Keystone, Airstream, Entegra, Tiffin, and others, and the tour BRANDED motorhome such as OMNI/magnitude and others. I have had 2 Keystone Raptor toy hauler 5th wheels that were well constructed. Mostly it appears that thor corporate allows those divisions to operate and establish their QA and QC, at least for the time being. If given the choice currently between a Keystone Raptor and a Grand Design Momentum, I'd now select the GD.

All Thor Industries' plants and divisions operate as individual corporations with separate engineers, designers and buyers. Floor assembly is handled in different ways in different manufacturing plants. Some plants use in-place builds where the workers move to the coach which stays in the same position on the floor and bring the parts they need with them. Plant 850 for instance.
Other plants use a rolling production line where a particular crew is positioned on the floor with all the parts they are to be install in that coach. The coach is moved to them and the required parts installed in that position. Plants 750 and 250 use this system. Plant 750 also uses batch production where similar coaches are produced all at the same time.
When I last toured plant 750 in April 2018, every 2019 model year coach had been sold and "we are hiring" signs were around the plant entrances. They were paying $1,000 bonuses for any worker who signed on and stayed for 90 days. Production on the floor was limited by the output of the wall bonding press and the electrical departments ability to produce wiring harnesses for the coaches. Plant 750 had orders of all of their 2,050 coaches they hoped to produce.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Beau388

All Thor Industries' plants and divisions operate as individual corporations with separate engineers, designers and buyers. Floor assembly is handled in different ways in different manufacturing plants. Some plants use in-place builds where the workers move to the coach which stays in the same position on the floor and bring the parts they need with them. Plant 850 for instance.
Other plants use a rolling production line where a particular crew is positioned on the floor with all the parts they are to be install in that coach. The coach is moved to them and the required parts installed in that position. Plants 750 and 250 use this system. Plant 750 also uses batch production where similar coaches are produced all at the same time.
When I last toured plant 750 in April 2018, every 2019 model year coach had been sold and "we are hiring" signs were around the plant entrances. They were paying $1,000 bonuses for any worker who signed on and stayed for 90 days. Production on the floor was limited by the output of the wall bonding press and the electrical departments ability to produce wiring harnesses for the coaches. Plant 750 had orders of all of their 2,050 coaches they hoped to produce.

Plants are not separate operating entities. They belong to an operating unit such as Thor Motor Coach or Jayco.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by fhenn

Play nice this thread is on the boarder of insults. Ifit continues we will shut it down

Sorry about that...

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Sorry about that...

2 of us SOBs with SOBs guilty I reckon.

[MLP]

Originally Posted by Choxnpinz

Good deductive reply, but I'll try to fill in as many blanks as possible.

* COVID wasn't an issue since we're talking about 2018, so supply chain issues were moot.

* What does the dealer's backlog have to do with it? If it's a defect under warranty, they need to fix it. IMHO, most of the repairs should have been spotted during the dealer prep.

* Yes, everything got fixed (that's why it was in the shop for ten months). The only thing not fixed was the bondo job on the cab-over, since I can't prove they did it.

* My closing statement was to warn people away from BUYING NEW. Brand is immaterial since they all seem to suck these days.

As a caveat to saying everything WAS fixed, I should point out there were back and forth arguments for weeks at a time, the dealer kept saying Thor hasn't gotten back to them ad nauseam, and I shouldn't have to fight this hard to get what I paid for. Make sense?

I'm pissed that I had to pay the mortgage and insurance on it for nearly a year while it was sitting in their lot, unusable.

Look a lot of dealers play the game and put warranties on the back burner and do not care once you sign on the dotted line. I owned a fifth wheel and thankfully the manufacture allowed the owners to have warranty work done by independent repair facilities so long as they were contacted and approved. On their forum you had many complaints about taking forever to fix warranty issues. We told them to contact the manufacture directly with their vin number and ask if parts were ordered for fixing their rig. The not shocking answer was NO! Dealers play the game. With sales doing well, the effort is almost 100% prepping rigs to get ready for sale and then for getting them out the door. Nothing will interrupt the profit process. Boy after the manufacture contacted the dealer the rigs were fixed ASAP!

THOR should more than think about approving independent repair facilities to fix rigs for customers that have had their rigs sitting more than two weeks without parts ordered and sitting more than one week after the parts arrived. They need to tell dealers that this is the new rules for customer satisfaction that must be met. Ya I know fat chance.

[ducksface]

...thankfully the manufacture allowed the owners to have warranty work done by independent repair facilities so long as they were contacted and approved.
(Other than not including thor in this, it's an excellent post)

Now, about those who go to a dealer:

Thor does/did this. Even mobile repair.
Few do/did enough of their own research to know this.

Some people just aren't happy unless they just aren't happy.

If they're unhappy and don't sell,
Historically, little sympathy will be found on this entire forum.

I think, and can be enlightened to know, a member here got rid of his thor within the last month or so after only owning it a month or so.
THAT'S the way to do it.

So many coming here hoping to enflame when you don't even know where you can take your rv repair?
Saying 'I have 300 problems' you can't/won't name?
We here are a bit deeper than this and always willing to help, but you just WON'T be helped, nor help.
We see you.

Beau, Koldman(an sob but severely questioned thor while buying) myself, a very few others,
Great quick reliable service when such little service was needed.
Overnighted parts, handshakes and laughs, FRIENDS made.
You can kinda tell:
We don't do self-inflicted miserable.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by ducksface

...

I think, and can be enlightened to know, a member here got rid of his thor within the last month or so after only owning it a month or so.
THAT'S the way to do it.


We don't do self-inflicted miserable.

If me, I was a long term owner, 7 months before I was out and gone from thor ownership.

I agree with you in many ways and your message. If someone's going to bitch and complain, be specific and have facts.