Thor's poor workmanship

[vdub]

Why is it that Thor, and almost every other RV manufacturer, puts out such shoddy workmanship? I mean, it really is crap. Workers and management both should be ashamed of their quality. I am hoping this thread will draw more examples of "you only had one job to do...." type workmanship.

#1 on my list is trying to connect a 1" drain pipe into a 1.5" goose neck without using an adapter or compression ring. The drain pipe simply ends in the goose neck without any sealing at all. The rear of the "connection" has a quarter inch of space where water pours out on to the floor. Not only is there a big gap, but the "connection" is below the level of the drain outlet. Nothing drains! There isn't any excuse for this shoddy workmanship.

#2 is an upside down electrical outlet. Yes, there is a right side up. Its not a big deal unless you want to buy something specific like a multiplug with a charging shelf on top (clicky) or an extension cord that is flat and points at a specific angle. It doesn't take much training or effort to simply do it right.

#3 is a ladder that is too short to get into the over-cab loft. The ladder missed hitting the floor by about a quarter inch, but that was still enough to make it unusable, since when you got on the first rung it flew out toward the cab. I did a temporary fix with some 1" dowels. But, again, this is something that shouldn't happen. You should be ashamed for letting these types of things past QC, that is, if you have QC at all. It would have been very easy to simply put in the right ladder.

Some day, I hope to visit the factory and see how you slap these things together with such little regard for quality. If nothing else, I would think the workers would be ashamed of their product and try to force management to let them do their job better. If they are unionized, it reflects very poorly on the union.

I hope everyone that reads this will add to the list of dumb things Thor has done. That's the end of my list. I need to go and rechaulk the shower. I wonder why it would be leaking in a 1 month old RV? Go figure.....

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by vdub

Why is it that Thor, and almost every other RV manufacturer, puts out such shoddy workmanship? I mean, it really is crap. Workers and management both should be ashamed of their quality. I am hoping this thread will draw more examples of "you only had one job to do...." type workmanship.

#1
I hope everyone that reads this will add to the list of dumb things Thor has done. That's the end of my list. I need to go and rechaulk the shower. I wonder why it would be leaking in a 1 month old RV? Go figure.....

My turn basically in the order of what and when I found it.

1. Front bumper not correctly attached or even aligned. Several screws not installed and mounted off center. I fixed

2. Exhaust rubbing on body. Exhaust was rubbing on the right aft compartment heat shield. Had Ford fix when in for steering repairs. Thor did reimburse me.

3. Soft shower floor. I followed judges suggestions to add bracing under the shower floor although I had to use wood blocks because there wasn't room to use the braces he did.

4. Styrofoam showers. Styrofoam A/C ducting disintegrating and sending bits of styrofoam out the vents even when not using it. Bits found on the floor after driving. Fix NONE possible except get rid off the POS. FIXED actually.

5. Sawdust storms from heat ducting. Actually no ducting at all just using the underfloor space between the floor joists and supports as the "passage": for heated air. Fix, none, see suggestions in #4.

6. Battery cover step had no hinge which made it unsafe. While stepping out I stepped on the edge of the step, the step tread rolled loose and I fell out of the coach. Fortunately only bruised my shoulder. Fix, CW installed a hinge.

7. +++++ I'll stop and let others have some time.

PUNT

[chunker21]

Thor knows of these issues because #1 they caused them and #2 they monitor this forum from the sidelines. When I discovered the bumper issue I posted questions here asking for advice how to fix and if anyone else had issues. I posted pictures showing the misalignment. I was contacted by a thor rep by PM on this site suggesting I take it to an authorized thor service facility. I did but the CW mainly just scratched their head and "put it on the growing list". Thor knows off the issues, they just don't give a crap what happens except hope those warranties run out before someone notices significant defects.

EDIT adding; in all likelihood thor will win the waiting game because a typical new owner of a thor product will have to take it to the dealer for the repairs. We all, or many of us, know the story. RV goes to the dealer after waiting a lengthy period for the appointment. The appointment is to "get in line to be looked at" Eventually some parts may be ordered, even later some parts may come in and be put on. Owner may be called to come get it only to find that 1/2 of the repairs weren't done or not done correctly. Meanwhile months may have passed and time marches on with the "warranty". Maybe the owner will get to use it while waiting on the rest of the repairs but more things break and start all over again.

If you have been around RVs and RV dealers a while, nothing new. If new you are shocked at the crappy workmanship, and horrid servicing and find you vacation plans ruined time and time again.

[Lt Keefer]

When I purchased my Thor in 2018 a customer rep contacted me via this forum as well. Thor knows they are building shite but as long as the stock price and dividends pay they will not care. If and when Thor Industries takes a dump on Wall Street they will just declare some form of bankruptcy and sell out to an equity fund. They have no incentive to produce a better product and the customer will always take it in the shorts.

[kwplot34]

Way too much to type out here in this thread, but go to the Class C and SuperC
sub forum and you will find many threads I have started on poor workmanship and Thor's lack of caring about doing the right thing. Look under my thread Front Cap Fix and you will find many pages with pic's of all of Thor's inability to do one job and do it right.

[vdub]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

When I purchased my Thor in 2018 a customer rep contacted me via this forum as well. Thor knows they are building shite but as long as the stock price and dividends pay they will not care. If and when Thor Industries takes a dump on Wall Street they will just declare some form of bankruptcy and sell out to an equity fund. They have no incentive to produce a better product and the customer will always take it in the shorts.

I also noticed that the Owner's Manual seems to be written for their lawyers and not the consumer.

[waynetaylor55]

Old story.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by vdub

...
Some day, I hope to visit the factory and see how you slap these things together with such little regard for quality. If nothing else, I would think the workers would be ashamed of their product and try to force management to let them do their job better. If they are unionized, it reflects very poorly on the union.
...

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by vdub

#2 is an upside down electrical outlet. Yes, there is a right side up. Its not a big deal unless you want to buy something specific like a multiplug with a charging shelf on top (clicky) or an extension cord that is flat and points at a specific angle. It doesn't take much training or effort to simply do it right.

No, there isn't.

In fact, despite any guidance from the NEC some master Electricians insist that the ground plug up is the correct orientation.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I believe the quality of the coaches would be far worse if the plants were unionized. Or maybe that is why they are so poor. Anyway, unions are not the answer to quality.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

I believe the quality of the coaches would be far worse if the plants were unionized. Or maybe that is why they are so poor. Anyway, unions are not the answer to quality.

The quality would drastically improve... but so would the price. But who would notice now that price gouging is rampant and completely out of control.

But you got one thing absolutely correct... as long as people are willing to pay for junk, nothing will change.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

No, there isn't.

In fact, despite any guidance from the NEC some master Electricians insist that the ground plug up is the correct orientation.

It drives me nuts when outlets are upside down! A master electrician once told me it's easy... a correct outlet looks like a face. When I see one upside down I think to myself... if some hack put it in the wall that way, can I trust it's wired correctly?

Our house was built in 1955... back when craftsmanship and trades still mattered. EVERY outlet is grounded and NOT upside down... refreshing.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

No, there isn't.

In fact, despite any guidance from the NEC some master Electricians insist that the ground plug up is the correct orientation.

Not that you need me to prove you are right , but thought I would share the below that confirms what you saying.

It is the Eaton Sub Panel I bought 2 years ago; it came prewired with the ground plug on top.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Po...N4NS/100168377

Now about a year ago; I would take it apart and reverse it, but it was only because I could not plug in the large GFCI plug that was on my Pressure Washer with the orientation of ground plug being on top. Note the solid steel L bracket above the outlet. That steel shelf is actually there to support the lid so it can be propped up.

I changed the orientation with ground plug down at my own leisure. I never had a single thought that Eaton or some laborer had installed it wrong or upside down or that it was poor quality workmanship.

This is a real easy change for OP and hardly worth railing your RV Mfg over as he may need them down the road.

Updated to explain why the ground plug is preferred up by some Electricians

Advantages of Upside Down
The National Electrical Code does not stipulate how outlet receptacles should be positioned within the electrical boxes. But some electricians install the receptacles with the ground slot facing upward, for several reasons:


To Identify a Switch-Controlled Outlet
Your outlet might turn on or off by a wall switch. This is valuable when you have a floor lamp you want to turn on when you enter a room. Some electricians will turn this outlet receptacle upside down as a quick visual cue to indicate a switch-controlled receptacle. If your home has only one or two upside-down outlets, this may have been done as a means of identifying switch-controlled outlets.

To Promote Better Electrical Safety
Some engineering experts believe that this upside-down position reduces the possibility of electrical shock. In an upside-down position, if a three-prong plug comes partially out of the receptacle and a metal object should accidentally fall between the outlet faceplate and the plug, the object will first hit the grounding prong. In the normal (grounding slot down) position, there exists the possibility of a short circuit if an object falls into this space and bridges the gap between the hot and neutral prongs.

This is the logic that led some receptacle manufacturers to recommend this as the preferred orientation for receptacles. In hospitals, you usually see all wall receptacles installed this way as a safety measure since a short in a circuit that powers a ventilator or other medical device can be devastating.

To Give Plugs a Better Grip
Some people believe that a three-prong plug installed in this fashion holds tighter in the outlet. This point has some validity, but with the advent of TR (tamper-resistant) outlets, this point may soon become moot, as TR outlets provide a very strong grip on fully inserted plugs. Unfortunately, TR outlets have the opposite effect on partially inserted plugs, as the spring-loaded internal doors tend to push plugs out.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

It drives me nuts when outlets are upside down! A master electrician once told me it's easy... a correct outlet looks like a face. When I see one upside down I think to myself... if some hack put it in the wall that way, can I trust it's wired correctly?

Our house was built in 1955... back when craftsmanship and trades still mattered. EVERY outlet is grounded and NOT upside down... refreshing.

Don't got to any hospital then. Everyone I've been to has them ground side up.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Don't got to any hospital then. Everyone I've been to has them ground side up.

Hospitals are where you go to get sick and die so using hospitals as an example of good falls short.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Hospitals are where you go to get sick and die so using hospitals as an example of good falls short.

Do you butter your toast right side up too

My Daughter works in a Hospital and is in the process of accepting her Medical School of choice. I don't think she would agree with your statement.

Given that both ways can be acceptable, putting the ground on top is just an added safety precaution at hospitals, since it is fairly common for a plug to be halfway out, having the ground on top could aid the prevention of an accidental short in a circuit that powers a ventilator or other medical device.

To take this back to the OP and his point, this is all to clarify that this is probably not a good thing to rail Thor on poor workmanship. I am not the Thor Apologist, but if they are really that bad, surely there are other items?

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Hospitals are where you go to get sick and die so using hospitals as an example of good falls short.

It's not an example of good, it's an example of where he will be triggered by "upside down" outlets. As previously mentioned, there is no correct standard.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Do you butter your toast right side up too

My Daughter works in a Hospital and is in the process of accepting her Medical School of choice. I don't think she would agree with your statement.

Given that both ways can be acceptable, putting the ground on top is just an added safety precaution at hospitals, since it is fairly common for a plug to be halfway out, having the ground on top could aid the prevention of an accidental short in a circuit that powers a ventilator or other medical device.

To take this back to the OP and his point, this is all to clarify that this is probably not a good thing to rail Thor on poor workmanship. I am not the Thor Apologist, but if they are really that bad, surely there are other items?

I spread the butter on the floor and drop the toast. Guaranteed to have it right. Yes I agree there are so many really bad things thor does that to talk about the orientation of electrical outlets seems small. Some wish to dismiss thor's responsibility in running screws through propane lines. To me thor actions are criminal negligence. Just because one year has passed doesn't absolve thor of responsibility. When an automobile's 3 year 36000 mile warranty expires should they ignore the air bag debacle?

Anyway this thread should focus on the OP's intent, thor bungled factory items. Plenty to discuss without electrical outlet orientation or hospital safety.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Hospitals are where you go to get sick and die so using hospitals as an example of good falls short.

Yep... and the warped reasoning for upside down electrical outlets is the same mentality that gave us "spill-proof" spouts on gasoline cans... Here's a suggestion: Fix STUPID so the rest of us don't have to suffer through torture devices.

What the hell are they doing in hospitals now... scalpel throwing competitions??

I'm ALL for safety... like seatbelts, airbags and blade brakes on mowers. But the safety needs to be incorporated into the device.

For instance, simply turning a household (or RV) outlet over for "safety" creates a nuisance when plugging in polarity sensitive power bricks. With the upside down outlet, the power brick is TOP HEAVY, and eventually works it's way out of the outlet.

If it were a household safety concern, it would seem logical for the millions of consumer products with ground plugs to be inherently designed to be plugged in that way... which very few are.

[10scDust]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

No, there isn't.

In fact, despite any guidance from the NEC some master Electricians insist that the ground plug up is the correct orientation.

I was told that the ground up is a safety requirement in an industrial environment.
If something fell upon the outlet with a cord plugged in partially pulling it out, the ground is first exposed and not the 110V.

All of mine are that way, although where needed, I reversed them because of that special direction plug in, like the dehumidifier, or refrigerator.

My 2 cents. I am also not a certified electrician, albeit I consider myself handy enough to change it if deemed necessary.

It's really not something to get all worked up about, if it was, why not have mentioned it at time of purchase? To me. showing true colors here. JS