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Old 06-22-2021, 09:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans View Post
BTW, not trying to start a war with any farmers on here, but in my opinion that's why the "Top Tier" fuel has so many additives is to counter act the poor effects ethanol has on your engine. If you truly want the BEST fuel, find a station that has ethanol free gasoline regardless of the brand.
The blending of all gasoline intended for highway use is strictly regulated by the EPA's section 211 of the Clean Air Act. This agency requires the registration of all fuel additives which are commercially distributed for use in highway motor vehicles in the US. Any newly introduced compounds will may require testing and the ban harmful additives (such as MBTE). The act also requires deposit control additives be added to all highway fuels to improve fuel mileage in older vehicles. This is know as detergent and Techron is the best known trade name. Other additives include corrosion inhibitors, octane boosters, evaporation inhibitors or increasers (to increase or decrease the Reid vapor pressure of the fuel). Antioxidants and metal inhibitors make up the rest of the additives. If ethyl alcohol is not used as an oxygenate, then an ether such as ETBE or TAME is added to provide the required oxygen. ETBE and TAME are powerful solvents and require barrier rubber fuel hose or nylon fuel lines. There is no such thing as pure gasoline.

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Old 06-23-2021, 12:33 AM   #22
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This thread is silly. To have "top tier gasoline" you have to have gasoline that is not top tier. So, where is that list, and what makes their gas different?

As for WaWa not being on the "top tier" list, I'd guess whoever edited that (IMO, bogus) entry isn't on the east coast and hasn't heard of WaWa... or had Tasty Kakes that were fresh ...
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Old 06-23-2021, 01:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by atreis View Post
This thread is silly. To have "top tier gasoline" you have to have gasoline that is not top tier. So, where is that list, and what makes their gas different?

As for WaWa not being on the "top tier" list, I'd guess whoever edited that (IMO, bogus) entry isn't on the east coast and hasn't heard of WaWa... or had Tasty Kakes that were fresh ...
For the first part, you are correct. If the name of your gas station does not appear on the Top Tier list, then it is NON-Top-Tier. Simple.

For your second comment, I'm still trying to figure out what it means. Yes, I am on the East Coast. Yes, I love Wawa. I go there for sandwiches. Yes, I wish they were on the Top Tier list, but they are not. So, no, I do not buy gas there anymore. And, no, I don't eat Tasty Kakes, fresh or otherwise. but, I've eaten Utz potato chips right from the oven when they were still warm at the PA factory. Does that count?
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Old 06-23-2021, 02:46 AM   #24
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Most newer engines are designed to tolerate ethanol. Small engines (power equipment), especially older ones can have plastic and rubber fuel system components destroyed in short order by ethanol. It's notorious for separation after sitting long periods...

I've heard products like Stabil help - I use that in my MH and winter gasoline. I don't have any scientific evidence it really works... Other than what a lawn mower tech told me a few years ago.

I had a practically new Toro snowblower with "no start" syndrome (fresh gas). I took it in... this guy dumped the gas & put in fresh... it fired right up! His comment? You live in OHIO... a prime unregulated state which is a dumping ground for crap gasoline. My gasoline was from BP, his was Shell. Take it for what it's worth... I wish Tesla would build a viable electric MH in my lifetime... sigh.
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Old 06-23-2021, 02:51 AM   #25
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Marketing 101, you have to pay get your name on the list.

"TOP TIER™ is recognized as a premier fuel performance specification developed and enforced by leading automotive and heavy duty equipment manufacturers. The intention of TOP TIER™ is to create a winning situation for retailers, auto manufacturers, and drivers. Vehicle and equipment manufacturer sponsors have a specification by which they can drive market fuel improvements to meet the ever changing demands of engine technology when regulations or specifications may not go far enough."

The owners manual for the Kia Soul says to use Top Tier fuel. When I use Valero, a Top Tier brand, the Soul throws a code for the knock sensor and turns on the money light. That used to require a trip to the dealer to get it cleared. When I use Murphy gas from Wal Mart, not a Top Tier brand, no code or check engine light.

Top Tier is all about marketing and artificial/forced consumer control.
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Old 06-23-2021, 03:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Lt Keefer View Post
Marketing 101, you have to pay get your name on the list.

"TOP TIERô is recognized as a premier fuel performance specification developed and enforced by leading automotive and heavy duty equipment manufacturers. The intention of TOP TIERô is to create a winning situation for retailers, auto manufacturers, and drivers. Vehicle and equipment manufacturer sponsors have a specification by which they can drive market fuel improvements to meet the ever changing demands of engine technology when regulations or specifications may not go far enough."

The owners manual for the Kia Soul says to use Top Tier fuel. When I use Valero, a Top Tier brand, the Soul throws a code for the knock sensor and turns on the money light. That used to require a trip to the dealer to get it cleared. When I use Murphy gas from Wal Mart, not a Top Tier brand, no code or check engine light.

Top Tier is all about marketing and artificial/forced consumer control.
I used to buy paper (printing stock). When the industry went "green", I started seeing all sorts of "industry buzzwords"... like "sourced from sustainable forestry products". Really?? So Kimberly-Clark, Weyerhauser and International SUDDENLY started being "responsible" about managing their pulp supply?? More like the entire pulp and paper industry was being targeted for being one of, if not the largest, air polluters in the United States. So... an industry smarty-pants came up with the brilliant idea to shift the focus to how well they "manage forests"... what's that saying about lipstick on a pig?
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Old 06-23-2021, 04:37 AM   #27
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I get on the interstate and read the gas prices as I drive. Eventually I will learn the prevailing rate for that area and stop at the most convenient large super gas station. That usually is Loves, Pilot Flying J, Wal Mart / Sams, Valero, Race Track etc. I fill up with unleaded and don't think about

I can't find it or prove, but it seems like when I first bought my RV new, I read somewhere it said to NOT use fuel additives ? It made me think, does that mean to NOT put fuel additives in the main tank for the gasoline engine? I know it is safe to use the fuel additives for gasoline engines, but has anyone ever saw or read where Onan or Ford might have said to NOT use fuel additives?

FWIW, I don't run my portable generator unless the fuel has stabilizers (Sea Foam) added, it just starts and runs a lot better.
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Old 06-24-2021, 02:10 AM   #28
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For the first part, you are correct. If the name of your gas station does not appear on the Top Tier list, then it is NON-Top-Tier. Simple.

For your second comment, I'm still trying to figure out what it means. Yes, I am on the East Coast. Yes, I love Wawa. I go there for sandwiches. Yes, I wish they were on the Top Tier list, but they are not. So, no, I do not buy gas there anymore. And, no, I don't eat Tasty Kakes, fresh or otherwise. but, I've eaten Utz potato chips right from the oven when they were still warm at the PA factory. Does that count?
Ahh, the power of marketing, no proof required.
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Old 06-24-2021, 03:15 AM   #29
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I used to buy paper (printing stock). When the industry went "green", I started seeing all sorts of "industry buzzwords"... like "sourced from sustainable forestry products". Really?? So Kimberly-Clark, Weyerhauser and International SUDDENLY started being "responsible" about managing their pulp supply?? More like the entire pulp and paper industry was being targeted for being one of, if not the largest, air polluters in the United States. So... an industry smarty-pants came up with the brilliant idea to shift the focus to how well they "manage forests"... what's that saying about lipstick on a pig?
Nice to meet another ink slinger. Spend 20 years in that industry, also as a buyer. It's all lipstick on a pig and it turns out if you pay enough to the marketing folks you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
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Old 06-24-2021, 02:50 PM   #30
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When I use Valero, a Top Tier brand, the Soul throws a code for the knock sensor and turns on the money light. That used to require a trip to the dealer to get it cleared. When I use Murphy gas from Wal Mart, not a Top Tier brand, no code or check engine light.
Have you considered that your Kia might be broken?

The same thing happens to me when I eat expensive French cuisine.
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Old 06-24-2021, 02:58 PM   #31
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Have you considered that your Kia might be broken?

The same thing happens to me when I eat expensive French cuisine.
You throw a code?
Is that what they're calling it these days?
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Old 06-24-2021, 04:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Wiley1 View Post
Have you considered that your Kia might be broken?

The same thing happens to me when I eat expensive French cuisine.
Too hilarious...

Like I said before, what is wrong with stopping at most convenient large super gas station. Loves, Pilot Flying J, Wal Mart / Sams, Valero, Race Track etc.? Get gas and 5 hours it is all gone; so you get new gas

Fortunately there are no expensive French cuisine served in any of the above; so there should be no code thrown up
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Old 06-24-2021, 04:53 PM   #33
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I think the key is to get your fuel from places where it'll likely be pretty fresh.
(I.E. high traffic stations... )
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Old 06-24-2021, 08:55 PM   #34
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I think the key is to get your fuel from places where it'll likely be pretty fresh.
(I.E. high traffic stations... )
That is so true. We haven't talked about the age of the fuel.
Down the road from me there is a little convenience store that sells Citgo.
But, they only get a delivery about every 4-6 weeks.
When prices are going up, they look rather attractive.
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Old 06-24-2021, 11:26 PM   #35
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Four to six weeks?
That is getting pretty "long in the tooth"
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Old 06-25-2021, 12:00 AM   #36
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That is so true. We haven't talked about the age of the fuel.
Down the road from me there is a little convenience store that sells Citgo.
But, they only get a delivery about every 4-6 weeks.
When prices are going up, they look rather attractive.
I would think stored below ground at a constant temperature and with limited ventilation, there would be little degradation in gasoline fuel. There used to be a component separation problem back in the day, but better surfactants have made separation of components a mute point. High temperatures and water contamination are usually are what degrade gasoline. Of course sealed gas tanks and gas vapor canisters have almost eliminated the contamination problem.
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