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Old 11-12-2016, 08:55 PM   #21
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Rear wall of coach battery compartment

These are two pics of the breakers on the rear wall of my coach battery compartment. The 100 amp is not tripped. The 50 amp I'm not sure . Is there a way to find out if the 50 is tripped? Is the Use/store switch fed through this breaker?
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:08 PM   #22
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The top one feeds, 50 amp feeds power to the coach; at least on ours. If the breaker is good you should read battery voltage on both sides, or if on shore power then the converter output which will normally be between 13.2 and 13.6 volts if you have a WFCO 8955 converter again like what we have in ours.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by billburt View Post
Replaced that 5a fuse at the coach disconnect relay. Use/store switch (ac power off) still doesn't activate the relay. Removed the new fuse and checked to see if it was blown and it wasn't.
I checked the voltage on both sides of the relay and got 12 volts both sides which is normal if the relay is closed.

I also checked the 100 amp breaker mounted at the rear of the coach battery box. It had 12v on both sides so it isn't tripped.
Don't know where to go next..
Could the coach disconnect relay be bad? Stuck in the connect position? The use/store switch was sticking in the use position .
I would take a close look at the use/store switch; it may be bad which won't let you get the relay to the store position. The switch does this by reversing polarity on the yel and yel with blk tracer wires.
The use/store relay is energized momentarily while the use/store switch is closed; either to put the system into use or into store. There is a mechanical piece in the relay that latches it closed or open. Think it maybe a magnet.
Some of Ed's stuff has a good write up on the relay.
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Old 11-12-2016, 11:56 PM   #24
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Bill:

Here is the battery schematic for my Vegas 24.1. I would imagine yours is similar. On the right side you can see the power comes off the battery, goes through the 50 amp breaker, to the contact side of the battery disconnect/connect latching relay, through the contacts of the relay to the power distribution panel in the converter.

The USE/Store switch only provides low voltage to the solenoid in the battery disconnect latching relay. Can you measure to see if there is power to the solenoid when the USE/Store is activated? I would suspect either the USE/Store switch, the 5 amp fuse holder on the USE/Store wire, the contacts in the disconnect relay, or the solenoid in the battery disconnect relay is bad. You said you have 12 volts on both sides of the latching relay contacts. That sounds like the relay is stuck in USE position. So my guess is either switch, fuse holder, or disconnect relay.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:55 AM   #25
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Ed
The use/store switch is where I started. There is just .17 volts to the center pins on the use/store switch. I thought changing the 5a fuse at the relay would be the fix, but still just .17 volts on the center pins of the switch . The voltage drops to 0 when the switch is actuated and back to .17 when the switch is returned to the center position so I think its making contact internally just not enough voltage. I need to somehow trace back from the switch to its power source.
I'll try tomorrow to find a spot downstream of the 5a fuse holder to see if I have voltage there. Its a little tight under there.
I also have dc power to everything in the coach so my only problem is that I'm unable to switch the batteries to the store position.
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:41 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by billburt View Post
Ed
The use/store switch is where I started. There is just .17 volts to the center pins on the use/store switch. I thought changing the 5a fuse at the relay would be the fix, but still just .17 volts on the center pins of the switch . The voltage drops to 0 when the switch is actuated and back to .17 when the switch is returned to the center position so I think its making contact internally just not enough voltage. I need to somehow trace back from the switch to its power source.
I'll try tomorrow to find a spot downstream of the 5a fuse holder to see if I have voltage there. Its a little tight under there.
I also have dc power to everything in the coach so my only problem is that I'm unable to switch the batteries to the store position.
The use/store switch is called a double pole double throw momentary switch. This means the center pins are momentary, while holding the switch closed, making contact with either the upper or lower pair of pins.
On ours there are red and white wires on the upper and lower pins But they are on opposite corners. This is done to reverse the polarity to the use/store relay. On ours the red wires go to the 5 amp fuse holder which is connected to the house battery side of the relay. The white wires go to a ground buss near the water heater. You should have 12 volts between any red and white wire if yours are that color. On ours the red and white wires have a splice under the area of the two drawers, this is under the stove in ours. The red is also spliced at the fuse holder. A more likely failure point is the white wire on the ground buss and a loose screw.

Hope this will help some. The wires are also taped up with other wires that run behind all the drawers.
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Old 11-13-2016, 05:16 PM   #27
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Scrub
When I originally checked the pins on the use/store switch there was no power to any of the pins except the center ones that I mentioned. I never rechecked after I replaced the fuse because the relay was still not working. I just checked the switch again. Both Red pins have 12 volts and both white pins show continuity to ground. Still no relay clicking. I put a piece of tape on the switch to hold it in store position for a few seconds while I gently massaged the disconnect relay with a rubber mallet. removed the tape and actuated the switch in both positions and got a relay click every time, But not as loud as I thought it should be. Both with the switch in the store and the use position I still get 12 volts to the coach power panel. It doesn't appear that the relay is actually disconnecting the batteries from the coach.

Actually a double click when operating the switch. click when I press the switch and click again when I release the switch
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Old 11-13-2016, 06:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billburt
Actually a double click when operating the switch. click when I press the switch and click again when I release the switch
That suggests something is wired wrong. You should only get a click when going from store to use and vice versa (e.g. pressing use multiple times--when in store--should only click on the first one, and then pressing store multiple times should only get a click on the first one).
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:00 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by billburt View Post
Scrub
When I originally checked the pins on the use/store switch there was no power to any of the pins except the center ones that I mentioned. I never rechecked after I replaced the fuse because the relay was still not working. I just checked the switch again. Both Red pins have 12 volts and both white pins show continuity to ground. Still no relay clicking. I put a piece of tape on the switch to hold it in store position for a few seconds while I gently massaged the disconnect relay with a rubber mallet. removed the tape and actuated the switch in both positions and got a relay click every time, But not as loud as I thought it should be. Both with the switch in the store and the use position I still get 12 volts to the coach power panel. It doesn't appear that the relay is actually disconnecting the batteries from the coach.

Actually a double click when operating the switch. click when I press the switch and click again when I release the switch
As the "geek" said should only be a single click from the relay.
When you place the switch in the store position do you get 12 volts and ground to the yellow_yellow/blk pair. It may be easier to connect your meter at the relay coil terminals and the ground buss. Once the switch is released there should be no voltage or ground on the relay coil terminals.
If you get voltage and ground at the relay coil terminals when the switch is placed in store and if a light tap on the relay causes the coach power to then disconnect the relay is most likely the problem.

I'm really thinking about relocating ours after we get back from AZ sometime in Jan 2017.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:17 PM   #30
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Scrub,
I checked all the wires on the switch. Both red have power since I changed the fuse, both white are good to ground, Yellow has power when the switch is in the Store position, yellow/green has power when switch is in Use position. Neither yellow or yellow/green have power with switch in center position. I put a meter on the power panel red feed from the relay. I have power 13v there all the time no matter what position the switch is in. The relay is clicking but not breaking the contacts. So it appears that I have a bad relay probably caused by the switch sticking in the use position.
( ac power was not connected)
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:51 PM   #31
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bill -- with my 42 years of Air Force aircraft maintenance experience (both enlisted and commissioned) as soon as you said the relay was making contact and appeared to work when you "tapped on it with a mallet" -- I knew any time you have to beat a relay to get it to work, the relay is bad.

My guys used to say it was always time to "... replace the part when you had to get a bigger hammer to make it work."
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Old 11-14-2016, 06:42 PM   #32
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Ed,
I know that saying. Worked on B-29 and B47 in AF and on multiple commercial a/c
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:45 PM   #33
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Changed out a bunch of relays with a factory rep. on a prop jet in '72. The chief pilot took us up for a check out flight; DW went with us but wasn't sure how safe it was with my self having done most of the work. Everything went great especially when the pilot opened the bar.

On the store/run switch while putting things back together found there is a 4 pin connector the wires go through near the relay.
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