Vegas 24.1 chassis battery dead

[RodIndy]

Chassis battery is new this year. MH has been plugged into shore power with 12 volt cutoff switch tuned ON and chassis battery is dead. Dash is dead.. House batteries full. Generator fires up.
Questions:
1) depressing and holding emergency start toggle does not work. Why?
2) is the engine battery supposed to get charged when plugged into shore power?
If yes, is the fact that the emergency switch doesn’t work related to the fact that shore power does not charge chassis battery?
3) when I’m plugged into shore power, turning off the 12 volt cutoff switch does NOT cut off 12 volt power in the MH. This seems like different behavior than with other MHs I’ve owned. Is this normal? Cut off switch clearly activates the solenoid as I can hear it.. it turns the 12 volts off when not plugged into shore

[ducksface]

When you push the emergency start you'll hear a very distinctive and slightly scary sound coming from firewall.
Did you hear it?
It's the selenoid kicking in to allow current to flow from the coach batteries.

A recommendation :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004H...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


And one of those little capacitor car chargers for 50 to 100 bucks.

[MJC62]

When plugged into shore power the battery disconnect doesn't work as the converter is operating the 12 volt systems. Unplug the shore power and hit the disconnect switch and the 12 volts from house batteries to the coach should be off.

[RodIndy]

Originally Posted by ducksface

When you push the emergency start you'll hear a very distinctive and slightly scary sound coming from firewall.
Did you hear it?
It's the selenoid kicking in to allow current to flow from the coach batteries.

A recommendation :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004H...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


And one of those little capacitor car chargers for 50 to 100 bucks.

Thanks ducks, the switch was silent as a mouse.. will be checking the BIM when I get back over to storage..

[16ACE27]

Do you have a BIM?

As I understand it, the same solenoid that connects the house and chassis batteries to charge the opposite side (converter charges chassis, alternator charges house) is also used as the emergency start cross-connect. If it has failed it would explain both your problems.

Or maybe the inline fuse for the control power to operate it has blown.

[JamieGeek]

Has the battery breaker tripped?

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Has the battery breaker tripped?

On my. 24.1 the breakers were stack one upon the other.
You really couldn't see the buried one, just a small portion of its flag.
The rear side of the battery box....

[RodIndy]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Do you have a BIM?

As I understand it, the same solenoid that connects the house and chassis batteries to charge the opposite side (converter charges chassis, alternator charges house) is also used as the emergency start cross-connect. If it has failed it would explain both your problems.

Or maybe the inline fuse for the control power to operate it has blown.

Not sure if I’ve got a BIM or an Isolation Solenoid.. I’ll be checking

[RodIndy]

Originally Posted by ducksface

On my. 24.1 the breakers were stack one upon the other.
You really couldn't see the buried one, just a small portion of its flag.
The rear side of the battery box....

Where exactly are theses breakers you guys are referring to?

[ducksface]

My phone camera choked on a chicken bone or something so can't get you a picture.
It's a square plastic thingy, about the size of a 4ictac box. Usually black and it's attached to the big cables on the rear side of your battery compartment, your left when facing the battery from outside the coach.
There's a little flag that is maybe sticking out of the side of it like a mailbox flag.
I think one of mine is yellow and one is white.
Tuck it back into its slot and this will reset the breaker.
If it's already in its slot, it's not the problem.

They are DAMN hard to see and you'll probably have to lay(lie?) under the coach and look up to see them.

[RodIndy]

Originally Posted by ducksface

My phone camera choked on a chicken bone or something so can't get you a picture.
It's a square plastic thingy, about the size of a 4ictac box. Usually black and it's attached to the big cables on the rear side of your battery compartment, your left when facing the battery from outside the coach.
There's a little flag that is maybe sticking out of the side of it like a mailbox flag.
I think one of mine is yellow and one is white.
Tuck it back into its slot and this will reset the breaker.
If it's already in its slot, it's not the problem.

They are DAMN hard to see and you'll probably have to lay(lie?) under the coach and look up to see them.

Are you talking about the house battery box. Or the chassis battery box.?

[ducksface]

Sorry.
House.
UnDer the steps.

[RodIndy]

Made it back to the MH today. I definitely have a Itlellec BIRD and trombetta solenoid located on the firewall area on the drivers side.
Plugged into shore power..
Chassis Battery still dead. House batteries strong..
Emergency start button silent and inoperable. I jump started the engine successfully but probably should have done some trouble shooting first..ran engine for about 45 minutes..turned it off.
After about an hour, engine has been off and shore power disconnected, I measured voltage at each large terminal on trombetta and voltage was equal at about 11 volts.. Why is this?
I then started the engine and measured both posts again.. both 13 volts. Why is this?
Also, after turning the engine off, turning ignition on but not starting, I can now hear the trombetta solenoid clicking when I depress the Emergency Start switch..
Why is this? And why not when chassis battery completely dead.. House batteries are DEFINITELY charged and should have engaged the solenoid..

[RodIndy]

What is the wire with the 15amp fuse which on my trombetta is attached to the right post as I face the drivers side firewall? Which of the heavy gauge leads is house and which is chassis? They are not marked..

[16ACE27]

If both posts read 11 VDC to ground the battery banks are not charged or you have a faulty meter/connections.

The "15 Amp" fuse is supposed to be a 5 amp fuse. It supplies power to the emergency start switch and is the house side input to the BIRD.

[RodIndy]

Totally confused now.. In my picture, there is a red wire with an inline 15amp fuse attached to the right side lug of the trombetta.. Are you saying that fuse is supposed to be a 5 amp?
Also, I’ll re-do my connections, confirm my meter operation and take voltage readings again..

[16ACE27]

The diagram is a "Typical" diagram provided by the BIRD manufacturer. Thor may not have wired it in the typical fashion.

I can't tell by your picture, but make sure you are actually looking at the Trombetta relay and not a battery disconnect relay. But in any case, most of the control power inline fuses shown for either relay is generally 5 amp. But if you bought the coach used someone may have changed.

Looking at your OP, #3 is normal behavior. Opening the disconnect just disconnects the house batteries from the DC buss, preventing it from being charged by the converter, but the converter still supplies the DC loads when plugged into SP.

[Oneilkeys]

If one battery/bank is low, you can easily check which trombetta pole leads to which battery by measuring the voltage at each pole and matching them to the batteries.
This is the explanatory page that goes with the diagram.

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

If both posts read 11 VDC to ground the battery banks are not charged or you have a faulty meter/connections.

The "15 Amp" fuse is supposed to be a 5 amp fuse. It supplies power to the emergency start switch and is the house side input to the BIRD.

No. The 15 amp fuse comes from the BIRD and goes to the chassis or coach battery - at least in my Axis. The other wire from the BIRD goes directly to the House batteries. These are the sensing wires that tell the BIRD the voltage if the batteries so that it knows when to open and close.

[Oneilkeys]

When I bought my 2016 Axis new, the factory had miswired the BIRD so that it was not reading the voltage at the house batteries. I cut the wire at the BIRD and wired it directly to the house battery side of the trombetta with a 5 Amp fuse.
I am not saying that is what is wrong with yours. If both battery's measure 13.5 or more volts with the engine running or on shore power, then the trombetta is closing. When at rest, the house and chassis batteries should read differently as they draw down. If both poles of the trombetta read the same when the batteries read different voltages, it may be that the trombetta is not opening. However, if that is true and your chassis battery is dead or dying, both banks should degrade to the same level - over time.