Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Maintenance and Repair
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-02-2021, 07:02 PM   #1
Member
 
Old Iron's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Minnesota
Posts: 35
THOR #19733
Vegas 24.1 Chassis battery drain

I'm a Snowbird living in our 2016 Vegas 24.1 down in Florida however about every 2 weeks the chassis battery goes dead. It's a new battery, so clearly there is something draining it. Today I installed a solar battery tender with a diode to protect from overcharging. I'll know in a couple of weeks if this is solution to one of the few problems we had with this rig
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-02-02 at 1.33.37 PM.png
Views:	39
Size:	521.8 KB
ID:	28395   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-02-02 at 1.34.18 PM.png
Views:	38
Size:	759.9 KB
ID:	28396  


__________________
Old Iron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 07:42 PM   #2
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 7,536
THOR #7035
The diode does not prevent overcharging - charge controllers do that. The diode prevents the batteries from draining back through the solar panels at night.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 07:50 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1
State: Connecticut
Posts: 898
THOR #20289
That small solar panel is a good solution, but it may not keep up. If the chassis battery goes bad after two weeks it is discharging at 5-6 amp hours each day. That small 10 watt panel may not keep up with that.

That much current is not right. My new Axis 24.1 has a Precision Circuits BIM 160 but yours may have the older BIRD. Both are bidirectional and the coach should keep the chassis charged and visa versa. So something isn't working right both the total draw on the chassis battery and that the coach is not keeping it charged up.

See if you can borrow or even buy a clamp on ammeter. Here is a pretty good one on Amazon for $83- https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-C...%2C265&sr=8-34

With the clamp on ammeter you can measure current either directly from the battery to confirm that it is leaking 6/24 or about 0.25 amp. Then check at the BIRD or BIM terminals to see how much may be leaking there.

David
__________________
DavidEM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 08:49 PM   #4
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 21,752
THOR #8860
How are you leaving your "Use/Store" switch set?
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 09:04 PM   #5
Member
 
Old Iron's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Minnesota
Posts: 35
THOR #19733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
How are you leaving your "Use/Store" switch set?
Funny you should ask that, as I was just looking at that. It's been in "use" mode and I just switched to "off" since I'm parked and on shore power.
__________________
Old Iron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 10:14 PM   #6
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 7,536
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Iron View Post
Funny you should ask that, as I was just looking at that. It's been in "use" mode and I just switched to "off" since I'm parked and on shore power.
The USE/STORE switch has no effect on the chassis battery.

If you are on SP and you put it in STORE (or OFF) you disconnect your house battery bank from the Converter/Charger and the house battery bank will drain over time as there are some small loads always connected to the house battery bank in some MHs (CO/Propane detectors are a common source).

It is best to leave the USE/STORE switch connected (USE or ON) at all times unless storing the RV without it being connected to SP.

The 24.1 should charge the chassis batteries from the house battery bank when the converter/charger is charging the house battery bank, so even with some small loads from the chassis battery (Radio memory among others) it should not go dead if plugged into SP and the USE/STORE switch is connected IF the BIRD/BIM is working correctly. If you have a BIRD it controls a Trombetta relay to connect the two battery banks together. It is a high use/high failure item.

Also, a standard multimeter which measures DC current up to 10 amps (most do) should be all you need to troubleshoot parasitic loads from the chassis battery; a DC clamp on ammeter is not necessary and is actually pretty inaccurate at the small end of the scale (under 1 amp).
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 10:35 PM   #7
Member
 
Old Iron's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Minnesota
Posts: 35
THOR #19733
The 24.1 should charge the chassis batteries from the house battery bank when the converter/charger is charging the house battery bank, so even with some small loads from the chassis battery (Radio memory among others) it should not go dead if plugged into SP and the USE/STORE switch is connected IF the BIRD/BIM is working correctly. If you have a BIRD it controls a Trombetta relay to connect the two battery banks together. It is a high use/high failure item.

Ok folks, you all are talking Greek to me. I'm just an old filmmaker riding my motorcycle down here in the warm winter sun.

Where is this "BIRD" located that controls a "Trombetta relay" and how do I check to see if it's working? Thanks for all this input I've received
__________________
Old Iron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 11:22 PM   #8
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 7,536
THOR #7035
If you're gonna own and use an Axis/Vegas you need to download and review Ed Felkner's crowd sourced manual from the first post in this stickied thread:

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f1...nual-4961.html
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 11:30 PM   #9
vkb
Senior Member
 
vkb's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1 KC's Big Box
State: Kansas
Posts: 2,165
THOR #3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Iron View Post
I'm a Snowbird living in our 2016 Vegas 24.1 down in Florida however about every 2 weeks the chassis battery goes dead. It's a new battery, so clearly there is something draining it. Today I installed a solar battery tender with a diode to protect from overcharging. I'll know in a couple of weeks if this is solution to one of the few problems we had with this rig
Hi ! ... 2 things regarding your Vegas 24.1 ... I think it is similar enough to our Axis 24.1 that I might be able to address a couple issues....
In the bedroom is the radio ... it has a constant on backlight ...go into settings and disable that backlight..
next...when you get ready to turn off your ignition, make sure you, manually, turnoff the Axxerra radio...Both of these stinkers will drain your battery. If I recall, the Axxerra radio, runs off the Chassis battery...
Make sure your running lights are off, etc.
Often the obvious can be overlooked.
Many Thor owners complain about the No Name batteries used....we have been fortunate, possibly due to maintenance or just dumb luck...our Chassis battery lasted 4 years before we replaced it..before replacing it last year, we were using a trickle charger during extended stays... We cannot complain.

Good luck ! ... We are headed to Florida as soon as we get our 2nd dose of the vaccine and feel confident that we will not run into any icy roads between KS and FL !

Happy Camping !
__________________
Ron & Kay n KC too !
2001 Scamp 13'
'KC's Little Box'
Jeep Wrangler TJ
vkb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:23 PM   #10
Member
 
Old Iron's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Minnesota
Posts: 35
THOR #19733
Thank you all for the insight and the link to the User Guide. It was a great read last nite. I do have a "BIRD & Trombetta relay." Now I have to figure out how to get it fixed. I think I saw a RV shop down the road, I'll take my pix's down there and see what it will cost to fix this problem.

Little more history of our "Tiny Home' as we like to call it.
We bought this last year as our other rig was much to small living in for months at a time. The H (house) batteries are brand new and I just put in a new C (chassis) battery while down here in Florida. The rig runs great and all batteries seem to be charged off the alternator after my wife goes to her dog shows (long weekends.) The trouble only comes after it sits for awhile. The H batteries read 100% when hooked up to SP it now seems that the C battery IS NOT getting charged with SP. I did discount the rear radio since it didn't work anyway, and I have made sure the front Axxera system is off. I want to replace that Axxera system anyway since all it does is reject all CD's I put in there, but that's another story.

Again thanks for the insights and help. I'll keep you updated as I learn more.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5555.JPG
Views:	33
Size:	121.4 KB
ID:	28412   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5556.JPG
Views:	33
Size:	86.6 KB
ID:	28413  

__________________
Old Iron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:30 PM   #11
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 7,536
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Iron View Post
Thank you all for the insight and the link to the User Guide. It was a great read last nite. I do have a "BIRD & Trombetta relay." Now I have to figure out how to get it fixed. I think I saw a RV shop down the road, I'll take my pix's down there and see what it will cost to fix this problem.

Little more history of our "Tiny Home' as we like to call it.
We bought this last year as our other rig was much to small living in for months at a time. The H (house) batteries are brand new and I just put in a new C (chassis) battery while down here in Florida. The rig runs great and all batteries seem to be charged off the alternator after my wife goes to her dog shows (long weekends.) The trouble only comes after it sits for awhile. The H batteries read 100% when hooked up to SP it now seems that the C battery IS NOT getting charged with SP. I did discount the rear radio since it didn't work anyway, and I have made sure the front Axxera system is off. I want to replace that Axxera system anyway since all it does is reject all CD's I put in there, but that's another story.

Again thanks for the insights and help. I'll keep you updated as I learn more.
If you are relying on the 4 LED status panel for your battery status it will always read 100% when connected to SP as the Converter/Charger voltage is always higher than the battery resting FULL voltage of 12.7 VDC.

You have to be disconnected from SP for at least 1/2 hour to get a good read of house battery status.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:52 PM   #12
Member
 
Old Iron's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Minnesota
Posts: 35
THOR #19733
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
If you are relying on the 4 LED status panel for your battery status it will always read 100% when connected to SP as the Converter/Charger voltage is always higher than the battery resting FULL voltage of 12.7 VDC.

You have to be disconnected from SP for at least 1/2 hour to get a good read of house battery status.
Once again some great insight from this forum. I just went off SP and I'll wait and see what it says. Thanks again
__________________
Old Iron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 11:29 PM   #13
vkb
Senior Member
 
vkb's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.1 KC's Big Box
State: Kansas
Posts: 2,165
THOR #3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Iron View Post
Thank you all for the insight and the link to the =

The trouble only comes after it sits for awhile.
Again thanks for the insights and help. I'll keep you updated as I learn more.
Last winter we spent 2 months in Florida...we were still on our original chassis battery, so we did not expect any issues, as it was performing well prior to this extended stay.
After a few weeks, we found the chassis battery dead. We bought a small trickle charger...attached it to the chassis battery and plugged it into an outside outlet on the motorhome. Problem solved.
__________________
Ron & Kay n KC too !
2001 Scamp 13'
'KC's Little Box'
Jeep Wrangler TJ
vkb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2021, 07:28 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
bill2913's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axes
State: Washington
Posts: 13
THOR #13739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
How are you leaving your "Use/Store" switch set?
that is a good question to ask. I learned the hard way and burned up my battery's. If you plug in shore power, you must put your coatch in store mode or turn the mane battery brake off. if you leave it in use mode it will over charge the battery's and burn them up.
__________________
bill2913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2021, 07:33 PM   #15
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 7,536
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill2913 View Post
that is a good question to ask. I learned the hard way and burned up my battery's. If you plug in shore power, you must put your coach in store mode or turn the main battery breaker off. if you leave it in use mode it will over charge the battery's and burn them up.
That's a problem with your converter - it's not going into "float" mode - you should replace it.

If you put it in STORE you will return to dead house batteries after a couple of weeks.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Alternate Toad
16ACE27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2021, 07:52 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: '17-Vegas 24.1
State: California
Posts: 1,963
THOR #13362
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill2913 View Post
that is a good question to ask. I learned the hard way and burned up my battery's. If you plug in shore power, you must put your coatch in store mode or turn the mane battery brake off. if you leave it in use mode it will over charge the battery's and burn them up.
How do you know that your converter/Charger burned up the House batteries?
Did an expert tell you that by measuring the voltage “in”?
Or, did you come to that conclusion & how did you make that determination?

That is, when I purchased my Vegas new, the dealer said “those converter/chargers will burn up your House batteries.”
Bottomline...3 yrs later, I leave my rig plugged into Shore Power 24/7 when parked under cover at my home.
My batteries are just fine. And the converter/Charger doesn’t boil my batteries.
__________________
'17 Vegas 24.1
Fallbrook, CA
taylorbob1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2021, 08:53 PM   #17
Junior Member
 
bill2913's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axes
State: Washington
Posts: 13
THOR #13739
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorbob1 View Post
How do you know that your converter/Charger burned up the House batteries?
Did an expert tell you that by measuring the voltage “in”?
Or, did you come to that conclusion & how did you make that determination?

That is, when I purchased my Vegas new, the dealer said “those converter/chargers will burn up your House batteries.”
Bottomline...3 yrs later, I leave my rig plugged into Shore Power 24/7 when parked under cover at my home.
My batteries are just fine. And the converter/Charger doesn’t boil my batteries.
my battery's went bad and i had some other problems too. I took it to Open Road motorhome were I bought my Axis. They told me that the converter can and will over charge the battery's. I is sensible that it should not matter.
I better go to the manual then.
__________________
bill2913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 09:14 PM   #18
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 25.6
State: Texas
Posts: 80
THOR #19026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Iron View Post
I'm a Snowbird living in our 2016 Vegas 24.1 down in Florida however about every 2 weeks the chassis battery goes dead. It's a new battery, so clearly there is something draining it. Today I installed a solar battery tender with a diode to protect from overcharging. I'll know in a couple of weeks if this is solution to one of the few problems we had with this rig
If it is a Walmart battery take it back.
__________________
Edki45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 09:21 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
ducksface's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 3,939
THOR #13932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edki45 View Post
If it is a Walmart battery take it back.
Last week I took one back to Wal-Mart.
I bought it based on reviews here and projectfarm.
Exactly a year, and unrecoverable, just like the one before it.
No receipt needed for return. It's in their computer.
ID, a monetary amount equal to the purchase price, and you're done.
I bought an odessey to fill the spot of the Wal-Mart crap. New Wal-Mart battery will go under the test bench to act as a 'real life's power supply.

A caution.
When I was there I saw a battery with a 3-2018 date.
About to have its third birthday....right there on the shelf.
__________________
Below is a link to most of my modifications either accomplished or pending.
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...n-18996-3.html

Click on my pictures then click the pop-up for a full screen zoomable picture.
ducksface is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2