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01-27-2020, 01:43 AM
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#101
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,116
THOR #7035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
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Your gonna half too say wut kinda meter and splain how two use it.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
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01-27-2020, 01:45 AM
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#102
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Georgia
Posts: 2,585
THOR #4735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abjbrtd
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We have one of these. It's a 30a to 50a dogbone
From reading all of the above thread would it be safe to assume we had 240v 50a in the mh ...
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nope, you only had 120v - no adapter can make 240v service out of only 120v service... the adapter's job is only to simply allow you to 'plug in' your 4-wire shore cord into a 3-wire outlet.
the main difference is that you only have 30amps of power, not the true 100amps of 120v power you might normally have thru a 50amp RV outlet(240v at 50amps).
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01-27-2020, 01:49 AM
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#103
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abjbrtd
Time for another episode of " Messing with double E's and master electricians"
When we had our class A most of the time we only had 120v 30a service.
We have one of these. It's a 30a to 50a dogbone
From reading all of the above thread would it be safe to assume we had 240v 50a in the mh
Seriously in all future post on this thread PLEASE stop calling RV electricity 220v it is not it is 120v times 1, 2 or 3 in our case.
Now back to
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Yep, that is a 30 to 50 dogbone alright. You are sharing one leg of 120 volts and dividing it to both legs of your 50 amp service BUT if you draw more than 30 amps from the shore power on that one leg delivery, your shore power 30 amp 120 amp breaker is gonna trip. No 2 A/C's and a microwave for you.
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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01-27-2020, 02:16 AM
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#104
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Senior Member
Brand: DRV
State: Texas
Posts: 311
THOR #9543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerFam
are those '50 amp breakers' only 'single' 120v breakers?
if so, it looks like your factory 'split' your service, giving you two panels versus the normal single Main Panel. This is really probably not a lot different from others, which split the 'sides' at the Main Panel itself.
For yours, and it's similar to mine, the 'subpanel' for the Inverter output is contained within one of your two subpanels, which, in the end, equates to the same thing as my 'integrated' Inverter subpanel...
Factories make decisions based on what they know, how to facilitate the wiring and power the best way, and maybe cost is included in that decision, too... but in the end, it's probably the same outcome as others who use a differing method...
Yours in the fist I've heard with two separate 'panels', yet if it works, it works! Great!
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Yes, definitely two panels; upper and lower. Each is 120 volts, fed with a 50 amp breaker. I thought all DRV's were the same.
__________________
2017 36RSSB3--2012 F350 KR, LWB, SRW, bilsteins, 1 1/4" anti sway bar, bilstein steering stabilizer, airlift air bags, on board wireless compressor, 295/20 tires at 4080 pounds each, oversized finned aluminum diff and trannie pans, all synthetic fluids; KEM, Tyrant, and PIP tunes with SCT X4 programming, G37 2017 Turbo, ATS Stage I towing transmission and torque convertor, Edge CTS gauge monitoring.
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01-27-2020, 02:19 AM
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#105
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Senior Member
Brand: DRV
State: Texas
Posts: 311
THOR #9543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27
Your gonna half too say wut kinda meter and splain how two use it.
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Again, I may be wrong, so correct me. If you use a volt meter between L1 and L2 with double phase 240, the meter will read 240. If it's 120, single phase, it will read zero. I think.
__________________
2017 36RSSB3--2012 F350 KR, LWB, SRW, bilsteins, 1 1/4" anti sway bar, bilstein steering stabilizer, airlift air bags, on board wireless compressor, 295/20 tires at 4080 pounds each, oversized finned aluminum diff and trannie pans, all synthetic fluids; KEM, Tyrant, and PIP tunes with SCT X4 programming, G37 2017 Turbo, ATS Stage I towing transmission and torque convertor, Edge CTS gauge monitoring.
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01-27-2020, 02:27 AM
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#106
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,116
THOR #7035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clev
Again, I may be wrong, so correct me. If you use a volt meter between L1 and L2 with double phase 240, the meter will read 240. If it's 120, single phase, it will read zero. I think.
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Correct!
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
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01-27-2020, 02:36 AM
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#107
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Senior Member
Brand: DRV
State: Texas
Posts: 311
THOR #9543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
You don't have sub panels. You have one panel. It has a 50 amp main breaker. It has a buss bar made up of two legs of 120 volts 180 degrees out of phase with each other. At any given time one leg has - voltage and one leg has + voltage. It's all about the language.
this thread needs to die 100 deaths!
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I agree with you that this thread has reached it's limits. And I think now, as well in other electrical threads, language/terminology is a big problem between the experts and lay person. The term 'sub panel' may not be correct for electricians, but it has been mentioned to me previously, and I understand to what is being referred. I've worked with the breaker panel in my garage and it is a large panel with two rows of breakers; I've added a few including my present 240 volt RV hook up. My home breaker panel is the same and I've added to it. The one in my RV is totally different; one upper and one lower; two separate covers; joined with a 50 amp breaker and a breaker for the inverter, both in the bottom panel. Totally different than my home panels. Hence the term sub panels; not my words; heard it many times before when someone has described the panels. Anyway, again, you are correct. Enough.
__________________
2017 36RSSB3--2012 F350 KR, LWB, SRW, bilsteins, 1 1/4" anti sway bar, bilstein steering stabilizer, airlift air bags, on board wireless compressor, 295/20 tires at 4080 pounds each, oversized finned aluminum diff and trannie pans, all synthetic fluids; KEM, Tyrant, and PIP tunes with SCT X4 programming, G37 2017 Turbo, ATS Stage I towing transmission and torque convertor, Edge CTS gauge monitoring.
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01-27-2020, 02:38 AM
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#108
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clev
Again, I may be wrong, so correct me. If you use a volt meter between L1 and L2 with double phase 240, the meter will read 240. If it's 120, single phase, it will read zero. I think.
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It not called double phase or 2 phase. It's called 120/240 single phase. Yes, measure across L1 and L2 and you will read 240 volts. measure L1 to neutral/ ground and you will read 120 volts. measure L2 to neutral/ground and you will get 120 volts.
try something like this
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/schaum...8&idiq=4229590
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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01-27-2020, 02:44 AM
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#109
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Senior Member
Brand: DRV
State: Texas
Posts: 311
THOR #9543
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[QUOTE=cavie;221160]It not called double phase or 2 phase. It's called 120/240 single phase. Yes, measure across L1 and L2 and you will read 240 volts. measure L1 to neutral/ ground and you will read 120 volts. measure L2 to neutral/ground and you will get 120 volts.
try something like this
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/schaum...8&idiq=4229590[/QUOTE
“ And I think now, as well in other electrical threads, language/terminology is a big problem between the experts and lay person”.
I posted that earlier.
__________________
2017 36RSSB3--2012 F350 KR, LWB, SRW, bilsteins, 1 1/4" anti sway bar, bilstein steering stabilizer, airlift air bags, on board wireless compressor, 295/20 tires at 4080 pounds each, oversized finned aluminum diff and trannie pans, all synthetic fluids; KEM, Tyrant, and PIP tunes with SCT X4 programming, G37 2017 Turbo, ATS Stage I towing transmission and torque convertor, Edge CTS gauge monitoring.
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01-27-2020, 02:46 AM
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#110
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2016 Thor Outlaw 29H
State: Tennessee
Posts: 668
THOR #13869
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It's no wonder there are 6 pages to this thread.
Electricity, we all use it without thinking too much about the workings of it, unless you are an electrician, electrical/electronics tech or an engineer.
I remember it being explained something like this (if it's wrong, please correct me):
Volts is its flow
Amps is how strong the flow is
Watts is how much work it will do
Ohms is the resistance about doing it
Then the electric formulas. So many...
I remember studying for one of my marine engineering licenses, before then, I didn't think there was a need to know what the square root of 3 is.
I digress, didn't mean to highjack the thread.
Carry on folks...
__________________
.....
Rusty
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01-27-2020, 02:55 AM
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#111
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clev
Yes, definitely two panels; upper and lower. Each is 120 volts, fed with a 50 amp breaker. I thought all DRV's were the same.
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Just when you think you have figured it out some somebody comes along and builds a different mouse trap. Just remember DRV is the only one doing this and not many people know about it. Don't be surprise if you get some push back.
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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01-27-2020, 03:01 AM
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#112
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,584
THOR #13058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
It not called double phase or 2 phase. It's called 120/240 single phase. Yes, measure across L1 and L2 and you will read 240 volts. measure L1 to neutral/ ground and you will read 120 volts. measure L2 to neutral/ground and you will get 120 volts.
try something like this
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/schaum...8&idiq=4229590
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I tell you what, I am getting it and learning a lot. I just went outside and verified in application; so I could see exactly what you were saying. On my RV 50 amp breaker; I have two legs that are exactly 122 volts each when against the ground. When I crossed L1 with L2 I got exactly 245 volts. Obviously my RV knows what to do with that and it works fine
Now here is my next question since we are all in this Rabbit hole
I put my 30 amp to 50 amp dogbone in my 30amp receptacle on my subpanel. I still have two legs at 120v each when against the ground. Am I supposed to get 240 across L1 and L2 or 0vdc? If it is 0vdc; does that must mean the RV is smart enough to know to share the 1 leg of 120v across everything internal to its systems as it will now tripped on 30amos versus 50amps?
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
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01-27-2020, 03:04 AM
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#113
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,116
THOR #7035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scDust
It's no wonder there are 6 pages to this thread.
Electricity, we all use it without thinking too much about the workings of it, unless you are an electrician, electrical/electronics tech or an engineer.
I remember it being explained something like this (if it's wrong, please correct me):
Volts is its flow
Amps is how strong the flow is
Watts is how much work it will do
Ohms is the resistance about doing it
Then the electric formulas. So many...
I remember studying for one of my marine engineering licenses, before then, I didn't think there was a need to know what the square root of 3 is.
I digress, didn't mean to highjack the thread.
Carry on folks...
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Voltage is the "PUSH" - like pressure in a water spigot.
Current is the flow (movement of electrons) - like the movement of water in a hose
Watts is Power - how fast the work can be accomplished, affected by both Voltage and Current
Watt-Hours is the total work done or energy used, hence your electrical billing unit.
Ohms is a measure of the resistance to current flow - the "push back" or friction in a wire.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
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01-27-2020, 03:06 AM
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#114
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman
I tell you what, I am getting it and learning a lot. I just went outside and verified in application; so I could see exactly what you were saying. On my RV 50 amp breaker; I have two legs that are exactly 122 volts each when against the ground. When I crossed L1 with L2 I got exactly 245 volts. Obviously my RV knows what to do with that and it works fine
Now here is my next question since we are all in this Rabbit hole
I put by 30 amp to 50 amp dogbone in my 30amp receptacle on my subpanel. I still have two legs at 120v each when against the ground. Was I supposed to get 240 across L1 and L2 or 0vdc? If it is 0vdc; does that must mean the RV is smart enough to know to share the 1 leg of 120v across everything internal to its systems as it will now tripped on 30amos versus 50amps?
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If you are plugged into 30 amps you are never gonna see 240 volts.
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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01-27-2020, 03:09 AM
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#115
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,116
THOR #7035
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Fixed!
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
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01-27-2020, 03:12 AM
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#116
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Clev, could you post picture of your panels with the doors open ? I like to see this set up. Always wanting to learn.
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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01-27-2020, 03:13 AM
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#117
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27
Second time you misspelled Volts as "amps". Time for a ninja edit.
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I kotched it! I need a ninja nap!
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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01-27-2020, 03:25 AM
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#118
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Clev, let me see if I got this right. Your shore power is feeding a 50 amp breaker. 1/2 this 50 feeds one panel and 1/2 feeds the second panel? How am i doing so far? Where is this 50 amp main breaker located? Pictures please.
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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01-27-2020, 03:27 AM
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#119
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,584
THOR #13058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavie
If you are plugged into 30 amps you are never gonna see 240 volts.
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Right, all I saw was 0vdc across L1 & L2; so it makes me wonder how the rv processes the 50amp differently than when incoming is from 30amp to 50amp dogbone?
Both legs L1 & L2 are still 120vac each. Is it really the same, but difference is one will trip at 30 amps while the other at 50amps? Or is it that one is 120/240vac (50amp) and the other just 120vac (30amp or 120/120vac or similar?
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
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01-27-2020, 03:37 AM
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#120
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Senior Member
Brand: Keystone
Model: Sprinter
State: Florida
Posts: 1,422
THOR #15553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman
Right, all I saw was 0vdc across L1 & L2; so it makes me wonder how the rv processes the 50amp differently than when incoming is from 30amp to 50amp dogbone?
Both legs L1 & L2 are still 120vac each. Is it really the same, but difference is one will trip at 30 amps while the other at 50amps? Or is it that one is 120/240vac (50amp) and the other just 120vac (30amp or 120/120vac or similar?
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It's not hard. 50 amps is 2 legs. 30 amps is one leg. !A 30/50 dog bone uses one leg only and applies it to both legs of your 50 amp main. It is just one leg.
50 amps with no dog bone is 2 legs to you panel. I don't know how else to explain it!!
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
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