Why Question? Portable Generator Starting

[dkoldman]

Today, after much talk about Portable Generators, I decided to fire mine up, I can feed the 30 amps to the RV to exercise the portable generator. I am gonna guess it has been 2 months since I last started the portable 3500 generator.

So I prime, and set the choke on full
Try electric start (key), it turns but no go
Try pulling the cord, almost no resistance; so it like it has no chance to start.
So I repeat the electric start (key) same thing
Pull the cord same thing no go.
So after a while I figure this 11 year old genny days are numbered, I go back in the house leaving it outside not worried if someone were to steal it.
10 minutes later; I go back outside and it is still there
Never can find a good thief when you need one.
So I turn the key and pull the cord and it fires right up

But why?
I think I have noticed that pattern in the past when genny has not been run in a while. Does anyone know what would explain the repeated attempts that all fail, but after 10 minutes it starts up like it is brand new?

It is like it takes 10 minutes for fumes or something to warm up inside so it fires up?

I glad it started by I don't get it, what am I missing?

[16ACE27]

Varnished gas has created a sticky valve. When the generator stops with that valve depressed for an extended period it sticks in the open position. Won't start with a stuck open valve but gas does get delivered to the valve and piston. So you now stop the generator where the valve should be shut. After a while with the gas fumes and spring pressure the valve becomes free and now you have compression and a running engine.

[Chateau_Nomad]

When I start my big old backup construction genny, (manual pull cord only) I leave the plug wire off and pull the starter rope 3 or 4 times... which makes me feel better... and likely sucks gasoline into the cylinder and spreads the oil around.

Anyway, after I connect the plug wire and pull the rope... BINGO! 20+ year old generator has always started on the first pull. It smokes a little burning the WD-40 off (see below).

I never leave gasoline in it, change the oil every year, replace the filters when called for... the only "repair" was replacing the entire rubber fuel line a couple times, and airing up the tires.

I only fire it up once a year after oil change. I then remove the plug, spray a decent amount of WD-40 into the cylinder, pull the starter rope to cycle the piston a few times... stopping the piston TDC, then replace the plug... And it sits covered in the garage until (hopefully NOT) needed.

I'd put some Meguiars wax on it, but it already still looks new!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Varnished gas has created a sticky valve. When the generator stops with that valve depressed for an extended period it sticks in the open position. Won't start with a stuck open valve but gas does get delivered to the valve and piston. So you now stop the generator where the valve should be shut. After a while with the gas fumes and spring pressure the valve becomes free and now you have compression and a running engine.

Does this mean after I finish running the portable genny, I should always close the choke back? Or will that make it worse next month or two to NOT be able to get gas?

It is odd how it does this. I need to get back running it more frequently and this problem will not occur. I hadn't had a need for it since wiring my Onan to work at the house.

But right now it starts 1st time every time, it has run about an hour in total with a 12 amp load from the RV.

I do use the Berryman B-12 Fuel Injector Cleaner mixed in with gas. I use to use the Sea Foam but it cost three times as much

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Does this mean after I finish running the portable genny, I should always close the choke back? Or will that make it worse next month or two to NOT be able to get gas?

It is odd how it does this. I need to get back running it more frequently and this problem will not occur. I hadn't had a need for it since wiring my Onan to work at the house.

But right now it starts 1st time every time, it has run about an hour in total with a 12 amp load from the RV.

I do use the Berryman B-12 Fuel Injector Cleaner mixed in with gas. I use to use the Sea Foam but it cost three times as much

I don't think your choke has anything to do with it.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

When I start my big old backup construction genny, (manual pull cord only) I leave the plug wire off and pull the starter rope 3 or 4 times... which makes me feel better... and likely sucks gasoline into the cylinder and spreads the oil around.

I have compact 3500 pure sine wave inverter. To get to and pull the plug cap off each time would be pain for me.

Anyway, after I connect the plug wire and pull the rope... BINGO! 20+ year old generator has always started on the first pull. It smokes a little burning the WD-40 off (see below).

My manual says to press primer bulb 70 times? I have watch the gas flows and if pressing the bulb correctly it has fuel after 7 - 10 presses. I always try the electric key start hoping I get lucky. After a few times and it doesn't start I switch to the rope not wanting to drain the battery in the generator. I would say 70% it start with the rope, but I have started to notice that sometimes like today, it just will not start. I give up walk away, but 5 - 10 minutes later, it starts right up. The ACE is right about the fumes, because I do smell fumes even when it has not started.

What I am thinking is knowing that it does this, maybe I should plan to start it this way every time if I go longer than a month without it running?

I never leave gasoline in it, change the oil every year, replace the filters when called for... the only "repair" was replacing the entire rubber fuel line a couple times, and airing up the tires.

I never take gas out I do change the oil every year, air filter I just clean and reuse, but I have never changed the fuel filter (11 years)?

I only fire it up once a year after oil change. I then remove the plug, spray a decent amount of WD-40 into the cylinder, pull the starter rope to cycle the piston a few times... stopping the piston TDC, then replace the plug... And it sits covered in the garage until (hopefully NOT) needed.

I replace the plug every other year. Never sprayed anything into the cylinder? Is that just for the threads in cylinder? I do have cover for it and store in Garage

I'd put some Meguiars wax on it, but it already still looks new!

I don't think I have ever had to even wash it. I have flat custom cut sheet of plywood if I ever need to run on grass or gravel. It has been a great generator, but it is step child for me now due to the Onan 5500 working with my home transfer switch.

I have thought about selling it and getting a new one, but they cost so much, and I am not so sure that a new one won't do the same thing? I got a really good deal on it 11 years ago and they still sell them.

[Chateau_Nomad]

I got the WD-40 trick from a small engine mechanic. Supposed to coat the internals... valves, rings, etc. to prevent rust/sticking. TDC keeps valves closed, thus no moisture through the exhaust port.

I've changed the spark plug once in 20+ years. Why change it if it still runs great?

Sounds like you're a candidate for a disposable generator... seriously... you NEVER dump/drain the gas?? And that fuel filter? I admit I don't always drain gas out of our garden tiller, yard tractor, push mower, weed Wacker, snow thrower... etc.

On the MH I started using the blue marine grade STA-BIL... AND in all the above mentioned - except 2-stroke weed wacker & snow thrower.

If it fires up and runs when you need it... why worry? Since you have the 5500 setup for home backup, it's not classified as an emergency backup anymore. But I give mine that extra TLC because I depend on it to ward off the apocalypse.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I got the WD-40 trick from a small engine mechanic. Supposed to coat the internals... valves, rings, etc. to prevent rust/sticking. TDC keeps valves closed, thus no moisture through the exhaust port.

I've changed the spark plug once in 20+ years. Why change it if it still runs great?

Sounds like you're a candidate for a disposable generator... seriously... you NEVER dump/drain the gas?? And that fuel filter? I admit I don't always drain gas out of our garden tiller, yard tractor, push mower, weed Wacker, snow thrower... etc.

On the MH I started using the blue marine grade STA-BIL... AND in all the above mentioned - except 2-stroke weed wacker & snow thrower.

If it fires up and runs when you need it... why worry? Since you have the 5500 setup for home backup, it's not classified as an emergency backup anymore. But I give mine that extra TLC because I depend on it to ward off the apocalypse.

I don't even have WD-40 anymore; hadn't use in years. Most every thing I was reading or hear says to NOT use WD-40, so I use Silicon sprays, PB Blaster & Liquid wrench, and in some cases I use spent oil from auto oil changes for lubrications. Are spraying inside the engine or just on the plug that you will screw into engine?

Of all places, I can get my spark plugs for very cheap at O Reillys (before covid) I may buy 2 at a time; so I have spares. So maybe 4 spark plugs in 11 years? Having known good spark plugs just ensures me in my mind that if it is hard to start it is not due to lack of spark. And I don't care to test a spark plug, I just assume replace it. I am about as cheap as you get but when it comes to $1.49 spark plugs, I spare no expense

Actually I dumped the gas once. When it was about 6 years old, the pull handle broke. Local shops wanted $300 to repair, I had only paid $469 for unit brand new. So I bought a genuine honda replacement part for my China made genny for $15 off ebay. Put it on a bench and had to basically disassemble 90% of the genny. That included removing the plastic gas tank. Wish I had taken pictures. In my mine it was self destructive repair, because I had no hope of actually putting back together. When I finished I only had 1 screw that I had no clue where it went It started right up on the 1st pull. I am still in shock

I use to use Sta Bil Red in all of my store gas and engines, but about 4 years ago, my portable genny was running so badly it would stop after a few minutes. Not wanted to have the carb service someone told me to try SeaFoam. The few minutes turned to 5 minutes, then 15 mins, 1 hour and eventually I could run 4 hours. I was so impressed I said I would always use, but I replaced with the B-12 as I assume it does the same.

My 3500 Portable is no longer are backup power source, it is too loud even though it very quiet compared to most portable genny, tired of hauling it back and forth and worry about when it is outside with weather etc. My plan was to sell it. I had almost forgot about it until reading some having use for the portables while RV'ing. I can't see that for me, but since it is at the house, I want it to work. It is a lot easier for me to power the RV with it than to connect to home transfer switch; so I may use it during the summer to cool down RV with one AC unit even though I have access to shorepower?

At $800 to $1,100 to buy the newer units today, I am not likely to replace. I could easily sell it, but the money I would get is not a real gain, so in a way I kind of stuck with it until it just stops working. Reminds me of one of my Sony TVs that would not fail. I wanted to replace with the newer Samsung's Finally one day I accidentally dropped it and would not come on

[Chateau_Nomad]

Just spray a few shots into the spark plug port. Give the rope a few pulls to cycle the piston a few times, set the piston TDC, reinstall the plug, and you're done.

I'm convinced most spark plug issues come from a cracked porcelain insulator... often caused by over-tightening the plug - which results in "wrenching wrangling" and banging the insulator. Good n snug is good enough.

I keep a gallon of WD-40 and a couple spray bottles handy. It's original design was for rust prevention - and that's how I use it. Ohio winters are VERY humid... look in any unheated lawn shed at rusted equipment.

Bare metal means rust. When I put the lawn equipment to bed, I give a shot of WD-40 to any missing paint areas, wheels - anything I don't want to rust. My little Toro snow blower is ancient, and nary a rust spot on it. I even give the genny frame and wheels a quick spray and wipe once a year - no rust anywhere.

Why am I so anal about such idiotic things? Probably because I inherited a tightwad gene somewhere in my genetic soup. I think I bought the bigger genny pre Y2K for around $650. After 20+ years, I've definitely got my money's worth... but somehow there's more to it than just the money. Something about just letting a good useable machine that I depend on just intentionally rot away gives me an itch that needs scratching.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Varnished gas has created a sticky valve. When the generator stops with that valve depressed for an extended period it sticks in the open position. Won't start with a stuck open valve but gas does get delivered to the valve and piston. So you now stop the generator where the valve should be shut. After a while with the gas fumes and spring pressure the valve becomes free and now you have compression and a running engine.

^^The best and most simple explanation^^^. At least you know now to run it often. Just yesterday, after all the conversation about portables, I got out my 4 and started them up...after a few pulls. I keep non-ethanol fuel in them plus gas treatment. Northern Tool has a portable fuel transfer pump for about $20 and runs on two D cell batteries. Every few months I pump the old gas out and replenish. Some models have a drain on the carburetor whereby you can drain all the fuel off. My 3400's (Champion) has a valve which turns the fuel off from the tank. I let them run till all the gas is out of the carbs. This adds a tad of drama getting them restarted, but it does eliminate the varnish/ethanol build up issues. Another simple fix is replacing the plug(s) often. They are cheap and it's not worth waiting till they have lived their life. I have extra plugs wire-tied to the frames, JIC.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

^^The best and most simple explanation^^^. At least you know now to run it often. Just yesterday, after all the conversation about portables, I got out my 4 and started them up...after a few pulls. I keep non-ethanol fuel in them plus gas treatment. Northern Tool has a portable fuel transfer pump for about $20 and runs on two D cell batteries. Every few months I pump the old gas out and replenish. Some models have a drain on the carburetor whereby you can drain all the fuel off. My 3400's (Champion) has a valve which turns the fuel off from the tank. I let them run till all the gas is out of the carbs. This adds a tad of drama getting them restarted, but it does eliminate the varnish/ethanol build up issues. Another simple fix is replacing the plug(s) often. They are cheap and it's not worth waiting till they have lived their life. I have extra plugs wire-tied to the frames, JIC.

Yes the ACE nailed it. I had noticed that hard starting pattern before and it just seemed odd. If one didn't know any better, they would assume a bad generator and give up. Ironically, I was kind of there because since March I didn't think I had need for this genny anymore, but when I went back out there and it started on single pull it got me to smiling again.

For me motivation is everything, no fear is the other. Listening to how and why others use 2nd Generator and I reference the list they created below has me to thinking.

Why others use 2nd Generator

1. RV's genset is too loud
2. RV's genset does not work (or not reliable)
3. To optimize gas ( so as to save money and/or extra capacity)
4. For needed portability once destination reached
5. Eliminate genset exhaust fumes from entering coach with slide out
6. Practicality of size, (when all I need battery charges, fridge, & occasionally a hair dryer or microwave)
7. A portable generator won't run your gas tank down to the point of turning off the generator.
8. I have a spare generator, and the space; so I can bring another.

I started mine up a 2nd time last night and it started 1st pull. I use to be good about exercise it, I will restart that even though I will use my RV generator to run the house in an emergency. If you got and maintain four, I should be able to handle one

My Ramsond 3500 Sinemate has both a drain on the carburetor bulb and the on/off valve. I assume you discard the gas that you pump out or drain? If so; I think I will just use my old practice where on a Saturday / Sunday once a month, I would let my portable genny run 2 - 3 hours with full load from the house. It is easier to do the same with full load from RV now.

I never really use that on/off valve for gas although once it was two years old I should have. Turns out one night the primer bulb cracked and the gas leaked. I happened to see it in the garage the next day and all of the gas has leaked out, it could have been a serious disaster Ramsond wanted $40 for a new primer bulb and that 7 years Pre Covid So took it to a small engine shop and matched a Briggs Stratton part as close as I could. I had to grind it a tad but got a perfect fit not to mention better color coordinated. That Briggs Stratton part is now 9 years old and still going.

[The Gritz Carlton]

I put that small amount of gas in the car. Yes, the list includes mostly good reasons except for those who really have a hard time with people not patterning their lives around the same way they do things...or they know no other way but to criticize when they don't understand. I have a small, chest type freezer in the building out back...unplugged and empty. It's purpose is in the event of an evacuation. I will put it in back of my truck, empty out both home freezers (tons of good food) and run it with a single generator. I will pull the XT5 on a car hauler behind the MH and the wife will drive the truck, pulling the boat. I will leave one behind for the teacher next door, JIC. If you live near the coast of Florida and don't have several layers of back-up...you're missing out and will become one of those begging for help some day while standing in 3 feet of water...in your home. There's many uses for them but you can't define every one of them until the convenience develops. My brother has 8 sets of golf clubs...it must run in the family.

[Muggs]

Add #9, - Run off trailer mounted $300 generator to save run time on internal $2,500+ generator. When bought in 6/2016 to now have 600 hours on internal, likely close to 10 times amount on trailer gen.

All engine powered equipment started every 2 weeks and run under load for 30 minutes. May sometimes be extended but is little to no hassle.

The cheap generator carb bowl looks new inside but with run time govenor springs weaken requireing adjustment to maintain correct output. The is fine adjustment screw on linkage for this purpose. I also lube all the gov linkage quarterly.

Being in Florida, everything corrodes and gets sticky.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Muggs

Add #9, - Run off trailer mounted $300 generator to save run time on internal $2,500+ generator. When bought in 6/2016 to now have 600 hours on internal, likely close to 10 times amount on trailer gen.

All engine powered equipment started every 2 weeks and run under load for 30 minutes. May sometimes be extended but is little to no hassle.

The cheap generator carb bowl looks new inside but with run time govenor springs weaken requireing adjustment to maintain correct output. The is fine adjustment screw on linkage for this purpose. I also lube all the gov linkage quarterly.

Being in Florida, everything corrodes and gets sticky.

Not to mention fuel savings (huge)...the house unit uses 1/2-3/4 gallons per hour...just to keep fridge and batteries going...not! The portables run for several hours on 1/2 gallon. This adds up when you're parked in a corn field at a race track for 10 days...using up the fuel your coach needs when leaving.

[Muggs]

Exactly. Fuel savings add up quick. In moderate weather can run 16 hours on 3.5 gals. Daytime in hot weather is 10 hours wiyh A/C running. At long events, has run 5 nights without issies. Stop fill, check oil and run.

[dkoldman]

You guys are making this list a why one should own a spare generator and how you might use in tandem with RV

I integrated both points into #3 and #7.

Why others use 2nd Generator

1. RV's genset is too loud
2. RV's genset does not work (or not reliable)
3. To optimize gas (fuel savings so as to save money, and/or extra capacity)
4. For needed portability once destination reached
5. Eliminate genset exhaust fumes from entering coach with slide out
6. Practicality of size, (when all I need battery charges, fridge, & occasionally a hair dryer or microwave)
7. A portable generator won't run your gas tank down to the point of turning off the generator. Run off a trailer mounted $300 generator to save run time on internal $2,500+ generator.
8. I have a spare generator, and the space; so I can bring another.