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Old 07-14-2020, 01:08 PM   #21
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Well im sure we all have power steering.

Its not a problem for me to turn lock to lock at any speed.... but I could see if someone had a bum arm / elbow it could be a problem. More effort when compared to OEM. But I like the feel much better than OEM.

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Old 07-14-2020, 01:50 PM   #22
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So it's a
'seat of the pants' thing
Like how chrome adds horsepower? (I know it actually performs a function but I'm not believing the price differential value)

Have we established the difference between a $80 one and a $5,000 one?
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
So it's a
'seat of the pants' thing
Like how chrome adds horsepower? (I know it actually performs a function but I'm not believing the price differential value)

?
No, its not like that at all.

It works, feels totally differnt but in a good way. Cant explain it....sorry.... you will just have to pull the trigger and purchase one or test drive an RV with one to understand it.

If you looking for an improvment with the steering or when big rigs pass you.... just install one.... IMO you wont be sorry.

To me it helps prevent "over correcting" while driving on a windy day or when a big rig passes you going 80 MPH. You can drive one handed much easier than OEM.... I love mine.
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:29 PM   #24
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Both devices are oil dampers- so they resist the flow based on velocity-
F=ma+bv+kx
Force=mass*acceleration+damping coefficient*velocity+ spring constant*displacement

Lots of companies claim their dampers are better for various reasons. This is a big deal in motorsports with suspensions.
It seems that the safetplus has more options for various damping coefficients. There might be more settings on it or it might be more tuned for the vehicle.

I am just getting the billstein cause its cheaper.
I think for suspension a better quality damper will possibly last longer and perform more consistently throught various temperature ranges.
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:32 PM   #25
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Ducksface; It seems you like an argument just for the sake of arguing. I don't know of any $80 spring assisted steering device; and I don't know of any $5000 one either. The two premier devices are Safe-t-plus and roadmaster, both in the 4-600 range. It's certainly not a "chrome adds horsepower" thing. It's a "I'm safer on the road with this" thing. It gives the steering a firmness that aids in correcting from wind gusts and trucks passing. It gives peace of mind if/when you have a tire blowout, that the device will help recover the steering back to neutral. There are many testimonies that tell of the advantages to having one when a tire lets go.
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:32 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
No, its not like that at all.

It works, feels totally differnt but in a good way. Cant explain it....sorry.... you will just have to pull the trigger and purchase one or test drive an RV with one to understand it.

If you looking for an improvment with the steering or when big rigs pass you.... just install one.... IMO you wont be sorry.

To me it helps prevent "over correcting" while driving on a windy day or when a big rig passes you going 80 MPH. You can drive one handed much easier than OEM.... I love mine.
But how does it differ from a $100(insert your own absurd price differential here) unit?
I don't think it does to any usable degree outside of a laboratory or a very studied situation.

I know they work.
I think they've become maybe a usable item with a lot of hype and bling attached.
Like a $4,000 stereo in a car with an 85 decibel background sound.
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
But how does it differ from a $100(insert your own absurd price differential here) unit?
I don't think it does to any usable degree outside of a laboratory or a very studied situation.

I know they work.
I think they've become maybe a usable item with a lot of hype and bling attached.
Like a $4,000 stereo in a car with an 85 decibel background sound.
Shocks (and suspension setup) are discussed a lot in motorsports- its all a very much "feel" thing with how you interface with your equipment.
Try the cheaper one and if you like it- then you are good. If you dont, try the more expensive one.

This is really a trial and error process when it comes to suspension design and feel.
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte534j View Post
Shocks (and suspension setup) are discussed a lot in motorsports- its all a very much "feel" thing with how you interface with your equipment.
Try the cheaper one and if you like it- then you are good. If you dont, try the more expensive one.

This is really a trial and error process when it comes to suspension design and feel.
Exactly my point.

If it weren't
'In your butt'
There wouldn't be different brands doing identical things.


I'll look but I think mine is a rancho and was 40 bucks.
My front suspension is not like anyone else's on this forum and I'm not recommending what I have. I'm recommending looking past the name brand and hype and maybe find alternatives. I did.


There is indeed a thread here where someone paid $3,500 at a dealer and topped in the same thread or a timely same thread by a $5,000 guy. But since I won't provide a link and take the time to find it, if no one else remembers the thread then just ignore my numbers and imagine what the greatest fool would pay the greatest finance manager for that $20 per month for 240 months 'peace of mind'.

The coil spring is a variation, not an end statement.

I ask things so people will have to support their stance based on something other than what the brochure or what the finance guy at the rv place said.
If you can support a stance I'll never aks why.
I've never settled for uniformed opinion.
If you haven't owned both on the same vehicle, it's an uninformed opinion and I ask it to be substantiated.
I don't think it's fair to newbs to recommend one thing above another when all you know is one thing. It's nice you're enjoying yours but it doesn't mean it's the end all.

All I ask is:
What drove your decision and how do you know its the correct financially or physically?
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:48 PM   #29
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Duck, These Saftey Plus / Road master are NOT like a steering dampner or an ordinary shock (even though they look like one - Except for RM has a spring around it).

They give you a full steering range lock to lock but if you turn left it will give you resistants and immediatly return to center (neutral), and if you turn right it will go to immediately back to center.

They try to keep the wheels pointed straight at all times but do so in a confortable and controlled way.

Kinda like when you have a FWD car, turn a corner then gun it.... the wheel snaps back to center much faster than any RWD car that I have even driven.

I dont know how to explain it... It just works. and it is NOT like a damper on the OEM chassis or like on my modified Jeep Wrangler.

But IMO any aftermarket name brand shock/Dampner will be an improvment over what you have currently. The factory puts on the cheapest part they can get away with and they are produced by the lowest bidder.

So if your budget dictates $80 .... the Dampner will still be an improment esp on rough roads.
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS View Post
Ducksface; It seems you like an argument just for the sake of arguing. I don't know of any $80 spring assisted steering device; and I don't know of any $5000 one either. The two premier devices are Safe-t-plus and roadmaster, both in the 4-600 range. It's certainly not a "chrome adds horsepower" thing. It's a "I'm safer on the road with this" thing. It gives the steering a firmness that aids in correcting from wind gusts and trucks passing. It gives peace of mind if/when you have a tire blowout, that the device will help recover the steering back to neutral. There are many testimonies that tell of the advantages to having one when a tire lets go.
Exactly.



Much safter than OEM and much more comfortable.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:02 PM   #31
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This is mine.
What doesn't it do that a $500 one does?

How does yours not add added battle in a wind?
We'll do an experiment at the fall meet up.
We'll go into a slow 15mph sweep, let go of the wheel midway and count time until the wheel centers. And I'll bring a micrograms to 220kilo digital scale to check resistance.
There's an absolutely huge, absolute empty parking lot at the casino overflow.
Head to head, with and without.

People always like the stereo knobs with resistance. Same reason. You just do.

I'll participate my rv as a feature, but my front end is different than anyone else's. I'm interested to see if my turning circle is really 3ft tighter now....

Can we overpressure our power steering pump and get the same affect without the resistance?
Or
I think one of the old power assist rams would wye into the power steering line, hookup backwards and give you adjustable resistance that's maybe exponential to the wheel turn.

That budget 80 dollar remark is what I'm looking for. It says the cheaper does the same thing, does the expensive do better, and how does it?
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:02 PM   #32
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Look at their website I guess.

I forgot to mention.... it DOES NOT install like the OEM Dampner.

This one connect to the frame on the Drivers side and is bolted to the middle of the tie rod. Thay way you can loosen up the clamps and move just 1 mm or 2mm at a time (left or right) to get your rig to steer straight when you on the road. It only took me one time to get my alinement correct and I have not touched in in 3 years.

Check their website......

WORRY LESS AND ENJOY THE DRIVE
Safe T Plus Precision Steering Control helps protect 18-wheelers, motorhomes, travel trailers, buses, and other vehicles for a safer, more comfortable ride.

Safe T Plus is proudly engineered and manufactured in the USA.
Vehicle Lifetime Warranty
Limited Lifetime warranty
Simple 1-hour bolt-on installation
Same-day factory direct shipping

Safe T Plus Precision Steering Control helps reduce the effects of:
Road wandering
Side Winds
Passing Semi-Trucks
Over-steering
Driver Fatigue
Rut Tracking

I think it will work for your modified rig as well.

If your ever in North West AR area let me know and you can drive my Axis on the road. Big difference over stock.
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:44 PM   #33
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Their website is the last place I'd look.
What are they supposed to say?
500 bucks will get you a marginally Unmeasurable difference compared to a 100 buck unit?


I don't say they don't do something. They do. They remove some road feel, add some fluidity to bumps and add, whatever pressure it uses to go to center, to the steering resistance in a wind.

I'm trying to find the difference between a 80 dollar unit and a 500 dollar unit and why, other than advertisement saturation, you bought the 500 dollar unit.
'cause I'm a bettin' the $100 units website uses the same rhetoric.

And that was the op original question :
Why one over another? No one has yet to answer why expensive over inexpensive.

An aside.
I had a 69 camaro with some stupid special order steering box. It was .8 turns lock to lock. Man, a sneeze and you were three lanes over at 70mph.
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:39 PM   #34
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https://4wheelonline.com/towing/blue...35270.290114.0
Why not?
This system counters the... Well...wind problem I type of....
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:19 PM   #35
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The difference between a steering dampener and the Safe-T-Plus/Roadmaster Reflex has been explained many times to you in this thread (See the quoted posts below).

You either don't get it or refuse to understand it or just ignore the stated differences so you can ask the same question over and over to be argumentative. Regardless, if you don't know what the difference is by now you never well. Since you refuse to learn anything from the manufacturer's websites maybe you just need to buy one and install it to physically see what the difference.

It's like saying a shock absorber and a coil-over shock absorber do and are the same thing. They are not the same and the coil-over shock adds more to the function.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Actually, they don't do the same thing. Stabilizers return the steering to center. Dampeners just dampen the movement from side-to-side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS View Post
Sigh. The dampener just does that. It dampens road vibrations and sudden movements. The steering stabilizer has springs built in, either under the metal cover, or in the open, and has a dampener, and it helps return the steering to the neutral position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Google is your friend. Just one of MANY results that answers your multitude of questions.



And the Roadmaster Reflex:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
Big difference in the Safty Plus and just a steering dampner IMO. I have one on my Axis and love it. Easy to install yourself.

The Saftey plus provides about 500# of pressure to the left and right off of center. It will try Keep the wheels perfectly straight. Once you let go of the wheel (while driving) it will quickly return to center (much qucker than without one installed).

So When in a parking lot / Camp grounds at slow speeds you have to muscle the steering wheel around (not bad but some effort). But once on the road its not as bad.... Feels like a sports car = firmer steering.

But my HD dampner on my old Jeep YJ you dont feel at all when making turn and it dont try to straighen out the wheel automatically. It just takes some of the jolts out of the steering wheel while driving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
Duck, These Saftey Plus / Road master are NOT like a steering dampner or an ordinary shock (even though they look like one - Except for RM has a spring around it).

They give you a full steering range lock to lock but if you turn left it will give you resistants and immediatly return to center (neutral), and if you turn right it will go to immediately back to center.

They try to keep the wheels pointed straight at all times but do so in a confortable and controlled way.

Kinda like when you have a FWD car, turn a corner then gun it.... the wheel snaps back to center much faster than any RWD car that I have even driven.

I dont know how to explain it... It just works. and it is NOT like a damper on the OEM chassis or like on my modified Jeep Wrangler.

But IMO any aftermarket name brand shock/Dampner will be an improvment over what you have currently. The factory puts on the cheapest part they can get away with and they are produced by the lowest bidder.

So if your budget dictates $80 .... the Dampner will still be an improment esp on rough roads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
This is mine.
What doesn't it do that a $500 one does?

How does yours not add added battle in a wind?
We'll do an experiment at the fall meet up.
We'll go into a slow 15mph sweep, let go of the wheel midway and count time until the wheel centers. And I'll bring a micrograms to 220kilo digital scale to check resistance.
There's an absolutely huge, absolute empty parking lot at the casino overflow.
Head to head, with and without.

People always like the stereo knobs with resistance. Same reason. You just do.

I'll participate my rv as a feature, but my front end is different than anyone else's. I'm interested to see if my turning circle is really 3ft tighter now....

Can we overpressure our power steering pump and get the same affect without the resistance?
Or
I think one of the old power assist rams would wye into the power steering line, hookup backwards and give you adjustable resistance that's maybe exponential to the wheel turn.

That budget 80 dollar remark is what I'm looking for. It says the cheaper does the same thing, does the expensive do better, and how does it?
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:50 AM   #36
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Since I can't get anyone to give the answer I'll break it down to two different questions:

Whats the real difference in performance between a 80 dollar stabilizer and a 500 dollar stabilizer?
What's the real difference between a 80 dollar damper and a 500 dollar damper?

The difference between a damper and a stabilizer was never the question.

Thats it.
Difference between cost vs value vs real world performance.

Pick either or both.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:02 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Since I can't get anyone to give the answer I'll break it down to two different questions:

Whats the real difference in performance between a 80 dollar stabilizer and a 500 dollar stabilizer?
What's the real difference between a 80 dollar damper and a 500 dollar damper?

The difference between a damper and a stabilizer was never the question.

Thats it.
Difference between cost vs value vs real world performance.

Pick either or both.
There are no $80 steering stabilizers (unless they're mis-named).
There are no $500 steering dampeners.

Just like your $5000 stabilizer.

Provide links to these items you are confused about.

The products discussed in this thread have been Bilstein dampeners and Safe-T-Plus/Roadmaster Reflex stabilizers. Stay on topic.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:35 AM   #38
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Steering stabilizers and dampeners do the same thing. What is the value of spending $400 for Saf-T-Plus vs. $120 for Bilstein???

Type in
Steering stabilizer vs steering damper.
Go to professional sites like KYB.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Steering stabilizers and dampeners do the same thing. What is the value of spending $400 for Saf-T-Plus vs. $120 for Bilstein???

Type in
Steering stabilizer vs steering damper.
Go to professional sites like KYB.
You're asking the same question as the OP. It has been answered numerous times and you're the only one who doesn't understand the difference. You're beating a dead horse.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:18 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
You're asking the same question as the OP. It has been answered numerous times and you're the only one who doesn't understand the difference. You're beating a dead horse.
Amen
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