Winter storage battery status and avoiding 'safeties' kicking on

[M3olsen]

Hi all (and sorry for long post). I'm going into my second winter with our 2018 Class A Thor Axis. I have the opportunity to store cold but indoors. Last winter I had shore power connected, to maintain batteries. I manually closed the valve on the propane tank.

I'm wondering whether I need to worry about any 'safeties' kicking on when the rv knows it's cold. PO had been in Texas freeze with almost no propane and had issues - I forget whether it was just the H20 heater or what.

If I were to turn off my house batteries at the switch near entry footwell, would they still trickle charge/ maintain when rv is connected to shore power, or does that disconnect them completely?

Are there any other safeties beyond the hot water heater wanting to kick on when it sees temps get to freezing? I turn the heater off at the I/O switch on the unit itself for the winter.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by M3olsen

Hi all (and sorry for long post). I'm going into my second winter with our 2018 Class A Thor Axis. I have the opportunity to store cold but indoors. Last winter I had shore power connected, to maintain batteries. I manually closed the valve on the propane tank.

I'm wondering whether I need to worry about any 'safeties' kicking on when the rv knows it's cold. PO had been in Texas freeze with almost no propane and had issues - I forget whether it was just the H20 heater or what.

If I were to turn off my house batteries at the switch near entry footwell, would they still trickle charge/ maintain when rv is connected to shore power, or does that disconnect them completely?

Are there any other safeties beyond the hot water heater wanting to kick on when it sees temps get to freezing? I turn the heater off at the I/O switch on the unit itself for the winter.

Thanks in advance for your help.

The master power/use-store switch removes the link between the 120 volt to 12 volt charger and the house batteries. As such, with the switch off or in store position, the house batteries WILL NOT charge.

If you have a solar panel with a solar charger connected directly to the chassis batteries, the position of the master power switch will not effect the solar charger.

[M3olsen]

Originally Posted by Beau388

The master power/use-store switch removes the link between the 120 volt to 12 volt charger and the house batteries. As such, with the switch off or in store position, the house batteries WILL NOT charge.

If you have a solar panel with a solar charger connected directly to the chassis batteries, the position of the master power switch will not effect the solar charger.

Thank you for confirming! That is what I was thinking, but unsure. Battery switch on it will be.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by M3olsen

Hi all (and sorry for long post). I'm going into my second winter with our 2018 Class A Thor Axis. I have the opportunity to store cold but indoors. Last winter I had shore power connected, to maintain batteries. I manually closed the valve on the propane tank.

I'm wondering whether I need to worry about any 'safeties' kicking on when the rv knows it's cold. PO had been in Texas freeze with almost no propane and had issues - I forget whether it was just the H20 heater or what.

If I were to turn off my house batteries at the switch near entry footwell, would they still trickle charge/ maintain when rv is connected to shore power, or does that disconnect them completely?

Are there any other safeties beyond the hot water heater wanting to kick on when it sees temps get to freezing? I turn the heater off at the I/O switch on the unit itself for the winter.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Disconnects them from converter charging as mentioned numerous times in this forum.

The water heater has no such safety and can not "kick on" if it is turned off both propane and electric.

[M3olsen]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Disconnects them from converter charging as mentioned numerous times in this forum.

The water heater has no such safety and can not "kick on" if it is turned off both propane and electric.

Perfect thanks. I assumed I was safe if both were turned off.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Beau388

The master power/use-store switch removes the link between the 120 volt to 12 volt charger and the house batteries. As such, with the switch off or in store position, the house batteries WILL NOT charge.

If you have a solar panel with a solar charger connected directly to the chassis batteries, the position of the master power switch will not effect the solar charger.

Excuse me, but in mine, when plugged into shorepower, the store/use switch won’t trip to store. So basically, I cannot disconnect the house batteries from charging when on shore power . Only works when not on shore power. And if storing for the season I would disconnect a negative post on the house and the chassis batteries and not plug into shore power. Also a good time to check water level in all batteries.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Excuse me, but in mine, when plugged into shorepower, the store/use switch won’t trip to store. So basically, I cannot disconnect the house batteries from charging when on shore power . Only works when not on shore power. And if storing for the season I would disconnect a negative post on the house and the chassis batteries and not plug into shore power. Also a good time to check water level in all batteries.

It's not a "trip to store" it's a shift to store. The control switch shifts a latching relay to the OPEN position.

How have you verified that your RV has this special feature that apparently is not in any other Thor motorhome? Has your electrical system been modified? If so, how?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Excuse me, but in mine, when plugged into shorepower, the store/use switch won’t trip to store. So basically, I cannot disconnect the house batteries from charging when on shore power . Only works when not on shore power. And if storing for the season I would disconnect a negative post on the house and the chassis batteries and not plug into shore power. Also a good time to check water level in all batteries.

If you are saying that because the red light on the Use / Store switch is always on when you flip the Use / Store switch on shore power, then you are mistaken.... and that is primarily Thor's fault.

Thor wires the red light on the Use / Store switch to represent when there is AC power going to the Converter (not when the batteries are connected or disconnected by the latching relay.

However... if you move the Use / Store switch to the Store position, it does disconnect the house batteries and the red light will remain on when on shore or generator power. This is why some people report there batteries are going dead when plugged into shore power. They are relying on the red light being on.... but the red light can be on in the Store position on shore power with the batteries disconnected.

You can easily check this with a voltmeter or looking at the house battery voltage if you have a Firefly / Rapid Camp digital display. You will see the house battery voltage drop on shore power when you move the switch to Store and the batteries disconnect with the red light still on.

When not on shore or generator power, the red light is on in the Use position and off in the Sore position.

There are several posts on here where people rewired the red light so it was off when in the Store mode (even on shore or generator power) and only on in the Use mode.

I was going to make this change to my coach but after I did my lithium conversion and installed an Inverter /Charger, I no longer need to worry about the position of the Use / Store switch.... as long as my inverter is on with AC power my batteries are charging.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Excuse me, but in mine, when plugged into shorepower, the store/use switch won’t trip to store. So basically, I cannot disconnect the house batteries from charging when on shore power . Only works when not on shore power. And if storing for the season I would disconnect a negative post on the house and the chassis batteries and not plug into shore power. Also a good time to check water level in all batteries.

Well that is rare, but I suppose it could be wired that way.

I have a Xantrex Freedom Xi That is always on when on shore power or the generator is running. When on shore power and the coach is stored, I trip the 30 amp CB in the power center that powers the inverter's pass through relay and now I can turn the inverter off. I could trip the 250 amp 12 volt CB in the house battery compartment, but it is not nearly as handy.

[Jimbo56]

My independent tech and myself verified it. Unplugged, in store, there is no power to the batteries. Leaving the store switch in store, plug into shore power, it clunks and I’ve got juice coming into batteries. Unplug from shore, it clunks again and no juice to batteries. Sorry mine seems different. Rolled off the line in may 2019. Maybe others are the same.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

My independent tech and myself verified it. Unplugged, in store, there is no power to the batteries. Leaving the store switch in store, plug into shore power, it clunks and I’ve got juice coming into batteries. Unplug from shore, it clunks again and no juice to batteries. Sorry mine seems different. Rolled off the line in may 2019. Maybe others are the same.

Your coach is the first I've heard of.... but it wouldn't be the first that Thor wired incorrectly.


Leaving the store switch in store, plug into shore power, it clunks and I’ve got juice coming into batteries.


So in this case, the red light (assuming you do have a red light) was off being in Store mode before you plugged into shore power?

And that "clunk" you are hearing is more likely the transfer switch when plugging in and unplugging and not the latching relay.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Judge

Your coach is the first I've heard of.... but it wouldn't be the first that Thor wired incorrectly.


Leaving the store switch in store, plug into shore power, it clunks and I’ve got juice coming into batteries.


So in this case, the red light (assuming you do have a red light) was off before you plugged into shore power?

Yep! And stayed off even though it clunks. Look, electrical is not my area. I tested this at home after reading on this forum that in store, on shore power, didn’t charge my house batteries. So I tested mine. The tech even said that’s not right. So he tested. Lo and behold. Plugging into shore power somehow overrides my use / store switch. The only way to turn it off is to trip both the breaker by the battery and the breaker under the hood. Then nothing works!

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Judge

Your coach is the first I've heard of.... but it wouldn't be the first that Thor wired incorrectly.


Leaving the store switch in store, plug into shore power, it clunks and I’ve got juice coming into batteries.


So in this case, the red light (assuming you do have a red light) was off being in Store mode before you plugged into shore power?

And that "clunk" you are hearing is more likely the transfer switch when plugging in and unplugging and not the latching relay.

No the ATS doesn’t clunk. It has an audible tone. The clunk is the use/store switch.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

No the ATS doesn’t clunk. It has an audible tone. The clunk is the use/store switch.

Then you also have a different transfer switch. The ATS has some pretty big relays that have made an audible "clunck" in all my coaches when plugging..... the latching relay tends to make a lighter sounding click.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

. The tech even said that’s not right.

And he is correct..... its not right the way it is working.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by Judge

Your coach is the first I've heard of.... but it wouldn't be the first that Thor wired incorrectly.


Leaving the store switch in store, plug into shore power, it clunks and I’ve got juice coming into batteries.


So in this case, the red light (assuming you do have a red light) was off being in Store mode before you plugged into shore power?

And that "clunk" you are hearing is more likely the transfer switch when plugging in and unplugging and not the latching relay.

No the ATS doesn’t clunk. It has an audible tone. The clunk is the use/store switch. Without the gen running, the aATS creates no tone just plugging and unplugging.

[Jimbo56]

But I only state all this to say mine is different and maybe others are as well.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Yep! And stayed off even though it clunks. Look, electrical is not my area. I tested this at home after reading on this forum that in store, on shore power, didn’t charge my house batteries. So I tested mine. The tech even said that’s not right. So he tested. Lo and behold. Plugging into shore power somehow overrides my use / store switch. The only way to turn it off is to trip both the breaker by the battery and the breaker under the hood. Then nothing works!

I recommend you check the wiring to the control posts on your latching relay. The only way I can see this happening is; if 12 VDC from the converter is wired directly to the control terminal causing it to energize and shift the main contacts closed.

Why is this a problem? Because the control coil is designed for intermittent use to move the latching switch. It is not engineered to be continuous use and having it constantly energized when SP is connected will burn it up sooner rather than later.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

But I only state all this to say mine is different and maybe others are as well.

It would be good to hear from others with the same year and model because I have not seen a recent Thor (2016 and newer) operate like yours does.


Any all of the ATS's in my coaches make an audible "clunk" when plugging in. The latching relay is a much lighter "click' sound.

When I plug in my coach, from outside I can hear the ATS relays engage when I plug it in.

My latching relay is in the back of the coach and I can barely hear it click when I flip the Use / Store switch inside at the entry door.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

I recommend you check the wiring to the control posts on your latching relay. The only way I can see this happening is; if 12 VDC from the converter is wired directly to the control terminal causing it to energize and shift the main contacts closed.

Why is this a problem? Because the control coil is designed for intermittent use to move the latching switch. It is not engineered to be continuous use and having it constantly energized when SP is connected will burn it up sooner rather than later.

That is a good point.......