Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Tech Forums > Towing | Hitches and Toads
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-01-2017, 11:50 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
DocMike's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Nexus Viper 27V
State: Georgia
Posts: 1,666
THOR #2142
Is a Breaking System for the Toad Required vs. a good idea?

Okay,

I was looking around this past weekend while camping and noticed two DP that were each towing a vehicle 4 down with Blue Ox towbar so I "walked the dogs" over to observe disconnection process. Both times I did not see any breaking system so I asked the second time and was told he did not use one.

My questions are: Is there a weight ratio of RV to Toad that dictates the need for a breaking system? Is it the law to have a breaking System for the Toad? Is it a safety issues? My Kia weighs in at just over 2400lbs?

Planning this season to start towing so trying to find out the rules and issues involved here.

Doc

__________________
Sheree & Michael NCNG LTC(ret) with Munpi, RC and Sheba (cat).
2019 Nexus Viper 27V, E-450, 5 speed "Ms. Enterprise", Infotainment Center, HUD, , Safe-T-Plus, Curt SpareTire Mount, ext. WiFi Antenna, Roadmaster Tow Sys& Invisibrake.

DocMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 12:43 PM   #2
gmc
Senior Member
 
gmc's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 32A
State: Florida
Posts: 1,873
THOR #2829
From a law standpoint - here is a good summary:
Towing Laws | BrakeBuddy - Braking systems for motorhomes towing a vehicle
In this case - not just the state you are registered in - but whatever state you are traveling through...
Some states have weight requirements - some just have stopping distance requirements or 'break away' requirements.

From my viewpoint:
  • It is certainly extra wear/tear on the MH brakes to stop an extra 4,000 lbs (2,400 in your case) pushing behind me at highway speeds... I'd much rather take that load on the cheaper/easier to replace brakes on the toad.
  • From driving with the aux braking - I can say I have never felt any impact on stopping having the toad behind me - I haven't tried without it - but fairly certain I wouldn't be able to say the same thing...
  • If something does go wrong (break-away) - I want to know the vehicle is going to stop - and not pass me on the highway...
  • I am using a $100,000 motorhome to tow a $40,000 vehicle - I'm not going to skimp on a $1,000 braking system. (Same reason I didn't go for the $50 towbar an uncle tried to talk me into...)
A DP will certainly have a toad that is a lower percentage of its overall weight... and likely less impacting... The smaller the rig and heavier the toad - the larger the impact.


Watching a campsite neighbor pull out with a near 5,000 lb toad behind a 20 something foot winnie with no brakes and the towbar at least 6" off from level made me cringe...



Certainly your decision what is right for you - and what chances you want to take based on the states you are driving through...
Based on your posts in past - being a 'belt and suspenders' kind of guy - I can guess which way you will go.
__________________
Greg
Not yet retired...
Florida (Michigan transplant)
2014 Hurricane 32A
2000 Infinity (previous)
gmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 01:02 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
DocMike's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Nexus Viper 27V
State: Georgia
Posts: 1,666
THOR #2142
GMC,

Thanks for the info! I plan to save the listing you provided.

You are correct as I have planned on getting a brake system of some sort based on postings on this Forum. But after this weekend I just wanted to be sure I would not be viewed as a "Snipe Hunter" when I approached a dealership with checkbook in hand.

Doc
__________________
Sheree & Michael NCNG LTC(ret) with Munpi, RC and Sheba (cat).
2019 Nexus Viper 27V, E-450, 5 speed "Ms. Enterprise", Infotainment Center, HUD, , Safe-T-Plus, Curt SpareTire Mount, ext. WiFi Antenna, Roadmaster Tow Sys& Invisibrake.

DocMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 02:01 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocMike View Post
....cut....

My questions are: Is there a weight ratio of RV to Toad that dictates the need for a breaking system? Is it the law to have a breaking System for the Toad? Is it a safety issues? My Kia weighs in at just over 2400lbs?

.....cut.....
In Texas I rented small U-Haul trailers in the past with loaded weigh rating up to 2,000 pounds that didn't have surge brakes. The larger tandem axle trailers did have brakes. Anyway, a 2,000-pound GVWR trailer behind my 3,500-pound pickup was legal at the time, and didn't feel that unsafe to me as long as I took much longer stopping distance into account. And no doubt it would make a great difference in stopping distance -- extending over 50% based on weight alone.

Some would argue that extending stopping distance by 50% is unsafe in itself, and it's a valid point of view. On the other hand motorhomes in general don't stop as quickly as sports cars, so if unsafe to stop longer than 120 feet from 60 MPH, not many motorhomes would qualify as safe.

You are correct that proportionally speaking, that same 2,000-pound trailer behind a 12,000-pound motorhome would make much less of a difference, and behind a 40,000-pound DP even less.
__________________
Chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 04:40 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
halfprice's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Renegade Valencia 38RB
State: California
Posts: 3,496
THOR #3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmc View Post
From a law standpoint - here is a good summary:
Towing Laws | BrakeBuddy - Braking systems for motorhomes towing a vehicle
In this case - not just the state you are registered in - but whatever state you are traveling through...
Some states have weight requirements - some just have stopping distance requirements or 'break away' requirements.

From my viewpoint:
  • It is certainly extra wear/tear on the MH brakes to stop an extra 4,000 lbs (2,400 in your case) pushing behind me at highway speeds... I'd much rather take that load on the cheaper/easier to replace brakes on the toad.
  • From driving with the aux braking - I can say I have never felt any impact on stopping having the toad behind me - I haven't tried without it - but fairly certain I wouldn't be able to say the same thing...
  • If something does go wrong (break-away) - I want to know the vehicle is going to stop - and not pass me on the highway...
  • I am using a $100,000 motorhome to tow a $40,000 vehicle - I'm not going to skimp on a $1,000 braking system. (Same reason I didn't go for the $50 towbar an uncle tried to talk me into...)
A DP will certainly have a toad that is a lower percentage of its overall weight... and likely less impacting... The smaller the rig and heavier the toad - the larger the impact.


Watching a campsite neighbor pull out with a near 5,000 lb toad behind a 20 something foot winnie with no brakes and the towbar at least 6" off from level made me cringe...



Certainly your decision what is right for you - and what chances you want to take based on the states you are driving through...
Based on your posts in past - being a 'belt and suspenders' kind of guy - I can guess which way you will go.


Also consider the liability of not having a brake system. If in an accident you could be sued/fined and your insurance could possibly refuse to cover you.
__________________
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...mods-4609.html
Jerry, Maria, and Sasha 6lb Yorkie
2022 Renegade Valencia 38RB "Five Deuces"
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport
FMCA # F464385
halfprice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 06:10 PM   #6
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 35M
State: Virginia
Posts: 46
THOR #6664
Just a note, some Toad braking systems are not visible like a Brake Buddy. On my toad there is an actuator on the brake pedal that is controlled by a unit under he hood. It's made by SMI and they make one that works off air pressure for the DPs. All I do is flip a switch in the toad and I'm good to go.

So, they may have had a braking system, just not visible.
__________________
Jmccombe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 07:11 PM   #7
gmc
Senior Member
 
gmc's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 32A
State: Florida
Posts: 1,873
THOR #2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmccombe View Post
Just a note, some Toad braking systems are not visible like a Brake Buddy. On my toad there is an actuator on the brake pedal that is controlled by a unit under he hood. It's made by SMI and they make one that works off air pressure for the DPs. All I do is flip a switch in the toad and I'm good to go.

So, they may have had a braking system, just not visible.
If you were referring to my post - and cringing at my camp neighbor leaving... we talked... he had no brake system... and for the angle - he's 'always towed it that way'... Didn't stop me from cringing...

I have Invisibrake - also an 'out of sight' installation... But you know its there if standing next to it when I hit the brakes. (vacuum pump)
__________________
Greg
Not yet retired...
Florida (Michigan transplant)
2014 Hurricane 32A
2000 Infinity (previous)
gmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 07:33 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
DocMike's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Nexus Viper 27V
State: Georgia
Posts: 1,666
THOR #2142
All,

Busy day here at the office. Just got a chance to look again, thanks for the input. Now I just have to figure which brake system to go with. I like the "out of sight" systems now to find a "set it and forget it" model.

Doc
__________________
Sheree & Michael NCNG LTC(ret) with Munpi, RC and Sheba (cat).
2019 Nexus Viper 27V, E-450, 5 speed "Ms. Enterprise", Infotainment Center, HUD, , Safe-T-Plus, Curt SpareTire Mount, ext. WiFi Antenna, Roadmaster Tow Sys& Invisibrake.

DocMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 07:44 PM   #9
Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 35M
State: Virginia
Posts: 46
THOR #6664
Hi gmc,

I was referring to DocMikes original post. Fully agree with you. I cringe at the idea.

. Also, I'm sure we all leave that extra space in front of our rigs when driving. More times than I care to count, someone has swooped into that space in their car, then slammed on their brakes. During those times, I am very grateful my toad has its own braking system!

Safe travels all!

Jim
__________________
Jmccombe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 08:23 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2015 ACE 29.3
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 242
THOR #4359
I also cringe when I see people with no braking system.

Make sure you also have a break away system.
__________________
Tom and Jen
2015 ACE 29.3
Mousemate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 08:48 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Gemini 24TX (Formerly)
State: California
Posts: 1,459
THOR #5821
Most states require braking systems on toads. Those that do not, should, and regardless it is IMO common sense to have an active braking system on your toad. Yes there are some braking systems that are not visible, IE; I use a U.S. gear braking system, uses the toads own braking system, connected through the umbilical, so just looking you would see nothing but the break-away cable.
__________________
Laco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 02:06 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Mr Sunshine's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2023 Jayco Precept 31UL
State: Florida
Posts: 2,914
THOR #1589
I have used a US Gear Unified Tow Brake for years, now on our second motorhome and second towed car. Well worth the money spent, for peace of mind alone. Some like the Brake Buddy, but it takes a bit more to connect, and then it has to be stored somewhere when you unhook.

I agree with what gmc said about a $100,000 motorhome and a $40,000 toad, although my numbers are a bit smaller.
__________________
Life is better when you cry a little, laugh a lot, and are thankful for everything you've got!
Mr Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 03:23 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Gemini 24TX (Formerly)
State: California
Posts: 1,459
THOR #5821
That U.S. gear system IMO is certainly one of, if not the best one out there. I had the system transferred from our former DP to the Gemini, and though the Gemini is certainly challenged towing, its ok for short trips, that do not involve traveling over mountain ranges. The nice thing about the Gemini, is because of its compact size, you can actually get it into parking lots to stock up on supplies. If we are staying in one sport for awhile, I rent an econobox. The logic in towing without a braking system in the toad, legal or not, eludes me. Even with a 40,000 pound DP, which we had previously, without toad brakes, if you slam the motorhome brakes, the toad will whip around back there like a snake. Need those brakes to keep it lined up.
__________________
Laco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 04:46 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine View Post

....cut....

I agree with what gmc said about a $100,000 motorhome and a $40,000 toad, although my numbers are a bit smaller.
You are both correct from a monetary standpoint, which begs the question why some experience owners feel differently?

If not to save $1,000 which isn't much compared to $140,000, then what?
__________________
Chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2017, 11:28 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Mr Sunshine's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2023 Jayco Precept 31UL
State: Florida
Posts: 2,914
THOR #1589
Suppose some folks think they have been getting along just fine without. They haven't had an accident or a lawsuit, and haven't been in a panic stop situation. Their towed car didn't break free and hit a bunch of kids. We haven't had those events, either, but I wouldn't tow without brakes and safety cables on the towed vehicle or trailer.

I see so many people on motorcycles without helmets, too. (An old joke is another name for a motorcyclist without a helmet is "Organ Donor!") Same attitude, but that's off-topic.
__________________
Life is better when you cry a little, laugh a lot, and are thankful for everything you've got!
Mr Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2017, 01:31 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Alabama
Posts: 211
THOR #6446
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocMike View Post
Okay,

I was looking around this past weekend while camping and noticed two DP that were each towing a vehicle 4 down with Blue Ox towbar so I "walked the dogs" over to observe disconnection process. Both times I did not see any breaking system so I asked the second time and was told he did not use one.

My questions are: Is there a weight ratio of RV to Toad that dictates the need for a breaking system? Is it the law to have a breaking System for the Toad? Is it a safety issues? My Kia weighs in at just over 2400lbs?

Planning this season to start towing so trying to find out the rules and issues involved here.

Doc
You need a supplemental brake system. I just traveled two months and installed, uninstalled my brake at least 30 times. 18 states. Many mountains, a few hard braking situations. It takes less than 3 minutes to install and initialize a brake and less than a minute to remove. I purchased a blue ox Patriot just before the trip and I'm very happy with it. Unwise not to have one.
__________________
Former owner 2016 Vegas 25.2 Toad 2014 Hyundai​ Elantra
Blue Ox Avanta Tow Bar Blue Ox Patriot
Chassis Battery Maintainer/ Battery fill System
Safe_t_Plus, Spare mount underneath
Dynamat Extreme / Hoodliner Doghouse Treatment
2016vegas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2017, 01:39 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Gemini 24TX (Formerly)
State: California
Posts: 1,459
THOR #5821
Just a FYI, in some states, Oregon for one, I know of someone driving a DP with a toad behind it, that was pulled over for a 'safety check'. When the trooper discovered there was no active braking on the toad, he required that it be disconnected on the spot, and driven under its own power as long as it was in Oregon.
__________________
Laco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:01 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: California
Posts: 258
THOR #3186
Our neighbor had a large DP and a 4x4 Rubicam Jeep Wrangler no auxiliary breaking system. On the I15 grade going down into Baker he had a really bad time trying to slow the rig, scared the crap out of him. He's a cop to, don't scare easy.

Another friend was just leaving his house and got to the first steep downgrade, his jeep rode up onto the back of the motorhome.

I had the surge activated ready brake - it broke. Safety cables and breakaway switch worked fine, no damage. I bought a new Demco tow bar and the Blue Ox braking system. No hard wire, no cable, activated by an accelerometer in a RF device in the cab of the motorhome. It's adjustable and can be manually operated.

I will test it Tuesday down the backside, several smiles with a 10 to 16% downgrade and several switchbakes. It looks like it is easy to hook up.
__________________
Forest Grump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 01:17 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Gemini 24TX (Formerly)
State: California
Posts: 1,459
THOR #5821
I'm somewhat troubled that your 'cop friend' would have even considered towing without an active braking system on his toad. He should have known better.
__________________
Laco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 03:28 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Baddad53's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 25.3
State: California
Posts: 443
THOR #2526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laco View Post
I'm somewhat troubled that your 'cop friend' would have even considered towing without an active braking system on his toad. He should have known better.
Funny thing is cops are people too and may not have any training in traffic safety or towing just driving fast. I had a SMI Air Force One on my DP (air brakes) and I loved it. Now with the Axis I have a Patriot unit and like it but the SMI was easier but now I can do it in a few minutes. Just under $1000 well spent on Amazon.
__________________
2016 Thor Axis 25.3 w/ 2011 2dr Wrangler in tow
Demco tow bar with Patriot braking
Bigfoot Automatic Levelers.
Baddad53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2