Flat towing using a Blue Ox BX4325-first time tower Question

[quantum]

I have a Sonic that can be flat towed. I have a Blue Ox tow bar and bracket set up.

The Sonic weighs less than 3,000 lbs my Motorhome is a Quantum 31ws. and weighs in at 14,500 dry weight

Do I need a brake system with a light vehicle like this one? My unit has the Tow selection and I believe automatically either gears down when breaking but not sure.

Any opinions on the need for an electric brake system or other? My state does not require a towed vehicle have brake system if under 4,000 lbs.

My question is the safety. I feel very comfortable not needing a brake set up but want to ask those with more experience towing a light weight load.

My rides are not mountain roads but more flat, hilly and foothills on travels

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by quantum

I have a Sonic that can be flat towed. I have a Blue Ox tow bar and bracket set up.

The Sonic weighs less than 3,000 lbs my Motorhome is a Quantum 31ws. and weighs in at 14,500 dry weight

Do I need a brake system with a light vehicle like this one? My unit has the Tow selection and I believe automatically either gears down when breaking but not sure.

Any opinions on the need for an electric brake system or other? My state does not require a towed vehicle have brake system if under 4,000 lbs.

My question is the safety. I feel very comfortable not needing a brake set up but want to ask those with more experience towing a light weight load.

My rides are not mountain roads but more flat, hilly and foothills on travels

Yes you need a supplemental braking system.

[quantum]

Thanks for the quick reply

Can you tell me what can be used with the car? Is it as simple as the braking assembly that will brake the car upon separation or can you explain what I may need and the costs I may expect

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by quantum

Thanks for the quick reply

Can you tell me what can be used with the car? Is it as simple as the braking assembly that will brake the car upon separation or can you explain what I may need and the costs I may expect

That is a loaded question. There are numerous different manufactures and portable or permanent install systems available to brake the toad. I have the Invisbrake system from Roadmaster a permanent installed brake system that stays under the seat of my tow vehicle and plugs into the motorhome.
My brother uses an RVi Brake 3 portable system on his toad. Both run around $1000 + or -. There are other good units available as well. Blue Ox and Demco make systems as well. All are good and will give you piece of mind that the car won't push you through an intersection during an emergency stop.
Of and God forbid you do get into an accident you don't have to explain to the judge when you get sued that you didn't think you legally needed a brake system...

[quantum]

I wanted to share the laws pertaining to a recent question I asked about laws and towing requiring a supplemental braking system.

Hope this helps others in question of the laws. The safety factor is another personal issue but the law is clear. Also, I had read that the law of the state the vehicle is registered in is the law that applies within all states.

My question was for my vehicle weighing less than 3,000lbs. The Dingy towing laws are getting stricter every year. The following is a detailed snapshot of the towing laws in the US and Canada. Vehicles above the rated weights must have supplemental braking systems on board to be legal.

Source: American Automobile Association
Digest of Motor Laws

Key
'A' — Must stop within a specified distance
'B' — Not stated or no requirement
'C' — Supplemental brakes always required

Federal Regulations
Title 49 (49 CFR 571) of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (10-1-08 Edition) defines a 'trailer' as follows: "'Trailer' means a motor vehicle with or without motive power, designed for carrying persons or property and for being drawn by another motor vehicle.'

WEIGHTS
* updated Oregon statute verified 11/10 from Oregon DOT

WEIGHT LIMIT BY POUNDS OR OTHER RESTRICTION (SEE 'KEY')
UNITED STATES
CANADA
Alabama
3,000
Kentucky
‘A’ North Dakota ‘C’ Alberta 2,000
Alaska
5,000
Louisiana
3,000 Ohio 2,000 British Columbia 4,400
Arizona
3,000
Maine
3,000 Oklahoma 3,000 Manitoba 'A'
Arkansas
3,000
Maryland
3,000 Oregon* ‘A’ New Brunswick 3,000
California
1,500
Massachusetts
10,000 Pennsylvania 3,000 Newfoundland ‘A’
Colorado
3,000
Michigan
3,000 Rhode Island 4,000 Northwest Territories 'C'
Connecticut
3,000
Minnesota
3,000 South Carolina 3,000 Nova Scotia 4,000
Delaware
4,000
Mississippi
2,000 South Dakota 3,000 Ontario 3,000
D.C
3,000
Missouri
‘B’ Tennessee 3,000 Prince Edward Island 3,300
Florida
3,000
Montana
3,000 Texas 4,500 Quebec 2,860
Georgia
3,000
Nebraska
3,000 Utah ‘A’ Saskatchewan 3,000
Hawaii
3,000
Nevada
1,500 Vermont 3,000 Yukon Territory 2,000
Idaho
1,500
New Hampshire
‘A’ Virginia 3,000
Illinois
3,000
New Jersey
‘C’ Washington 3,000
Indiana 3,000 New Mexico 3,000 West Virginia 3,000
Iowa
3,000
New York
1,000 Wisconsin 3,000
Kansas
'A'
North Carolina
4,000 Wyoming 'A'

[MJC62]

If you don't think you need a brake system because it's legal to tow without one why ask the question in the first place?
Most experienced RVr's would not put the extra stress and wear on the coach's brakes let alone take the risk of having a ton push the motorhome in an emergency stop. But go ahead and tow the car without a brake system because it's legal.

[EA37TS]

What does your coach weight fully loaded. Add the weight of the TOAD. If you are over GVWR you exceed the capabilities of the chassis’s brakes.

Do what you want since you are apparently an expert.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by quantum

I wanted to share the laws pertaining to a recent question I asked about laws and towing requiring a supplemental braking system.

Hope this helps others in question of the laws. The safety factor is another personal issue but the law is clear. Also, I had read that the law of the state the vehicle is registered in is the law that applies within all states.

My question was for my vehicle weighing less than 3,000lbs. The Dingy towing laws are getting stricter every year. The following is a detailed snapshot of the towing laws in the US and Canada. Vehicles above the rated weights must have supplemental braking systems on board to be legal.

Source: American Automobile Association
Digest of Motor Laws

Key
'A' — Must stop within a specified distance
'B' — Not stated or no requirement
'C' — Supplemental brakes always required

Federal Regulations
Title 49 (49 CFR 571) of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (10-1-08 Edition) defines a 'trailer' as follows: "'Trailer' means a motor vehicle with or without motive power, designed for carrying persons or property and for being drawn by another motor vehicle.'

WEIGHTS
* updated Oregon statute verified 11/10 from Oregon DOT

WEIGHT LIMIT BY POUNDS OR OTHER RESTRICTION (SEE 'KEY')
UNITED STATES
CANADA
Alabama
3,000
Kentucky
‘A’ North Dakota ‘C’ Alberta 2,000
Alaska
5,000
Louisiana
3,000 Ohio 2,000 British Columbia 4,400
Arizona
3,000
Maine
3,000 Oklahoma 3,000 Manitoba 'A'
Arkansas
3,000
Maryland
3,000 Oregon* ‘A’ New Brunswick 3,000
California
1,500
Massachusetts
10,000 Pennsylvania 3,000 Newfoundland ‘A’
Colorado
3,000
Michigan
3,000 Rhode Island 4,000 Northwest Territories 'C'
Connecticut
3,000
Minnesota
3,000 South Carolina 3,000 Nova Scotia 4,000
Delaware
4,000
Mississippi
2,000 South Dakota 3,000 Ontario 3,000
D.C
3,000
Missouri
‘B’ Tennessee 3,000 Prince Edward Island 3,300
Florida
3,000
Montana
3,000 Texas 4,500 Quebec 2,860
Georgia
3,000
Nebraska
3,000 Utah ‘A’ Saskatchewan 3,000
Hawaii
3,000
Nevada
1,500 Vermont 3,000 Yukon Territory 2,000
Idaho
1,500
New Hampshire
‘A’ Virginia 3,000
Illinois
3,000
New Jersey
‘C’ Washington 3,000
Indiana 3,000 New Mexico 3,000 West Virginia 3,000
Iowa
3,000
New York
1,000 Wisconsin 3,000
Kansas
'A'
North Carolina
4,000 Wyoming 'A'

Absolutely incorrect! Where did you read that misinformation?

As stated in another thread; there is no reciprocity in vehicle requirement laws between the States as there is with drivers licenses and registrations. If a State says something is required (or prohibited) in regards to your physical vehicle, then that is the requirement on the roads of that State regardless of where that vehicle is registered.

I would also point out that any "summary" or list or requirements by State is bound to have false information as your list copied and pasted from AAA does, and the pasted formatting makes the list almost unreadable. As an example; Florida does indeed have "performance" or stopping distance requirements, yet there is no mention of it in your AAA digest.

[quantum]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

What does your coach weight fully loaded. Add the weight of the TOAD. If you are over GVWR you exceed the capabilities of the chassis’s brakes.

Do what you want since you are apparently an expert.

Not what I was saying and not an expert. Just looking for the safety before cost or mistakes.

I wanted to quote what I read after I asked the question about towing as it is a safety issue and not a legal. If you read my response clearly I was stating facts of law as I was told "not Legal" and I then stated safety is a priority.

I have never flat towed thus I reached out for the response of others with experience.

I take the answer to be rude as read. The additional weight is a factor so I credit the Tech answer before the other response. Yes the rig is capable within the correct weight, yes it can cause extra stress and wear but if one was worried about the legal it is considered legal. Not my words, nothing I knew when I asked the question and definitely not to shrug off safety.

thanks for your bold reply from the one who states I am an expert. The law of the roads are just as important. However, safety will always be in front.

I thank you for showing your "lack" of the legal side of actual question I asked.

[quantum]

Source: American Automobile Association
Digest of Motor Laws

[Chateau_Nomad]

My belief is that "safety is a mindset"... you either subscribe, or you don't. Not trying to be harsh or judgemental - just stating a fact.

I went through the same thought process you did a little over a year ago. I have a Jeep Wrangler TJ with curb weight just over 3,000 pounds, and I pull it with a relatively small (Ford E-350) Thor Chateau 24F - and I also use a Blue Ox tow setup - which I installed myself - including an $800 Invisibrake system.

Yes, I researched the laws - but my ultimate goal was SAFETY. As you'll find, each state has their own "rights infringement" tolerance. As an example - nearly EVERY state requires seatbelts, but somehow it's SAFE to ride a motorcycle on public roadways without a helmet? I rest my case on letting government decide my safety!

I strongly suggest you call the agent for the company you have your motorhome insured with. Explain EXACTLY how you will be towing that car with your motorhome. Ask them if a supplemental braking system is required to be in compliance with your insurance policy. This is NOT a common question - so MAKE SURE they research your policy and give you a definitive answer. Ask them to email you the verbiage from your policy which defines that circumstance.

Why? Because if you get into an accident - EVEN if it's NOT YOUR FAULT - investigative attorneys will discover you were in violation of the law for not having required equipment. Your insurance MAY balk at paying - even though you were not at fault.
ASK YOURSELF... is this something you want to put you and your family through?
Be safe out there...

P.S. My rule of thumb is towing a maximum of 1,500 pounds without brakes - even with my F-150. It's peace of mind knowing if I have a "lock 'em up" braking incident, I can stop in my self-determined "assured clear distance". That said... I'm betting the guy 50 feet behind me reading text messages won't be stopping.

[quantum]

Your reply is both sensible and well presented.

I am a believer in safety fist. For my family as well as others on the road. The question of liability as an insurance company is concerned is a realty and as insurance companies can be they may take the approach you mention. Also the comparison of the helmet laws from one state to the next is also a valid comparison

I thank you for the answer and wish more online responses would be respectful enough to look at why the question is asked, have a conversation and stop slamming someone. That type of responses make me want to not ask any Forum question other than going direct to the techs.

I recently also spoke to Blue Ox on this and as they stated "though a braking system is not required in most states with the vehicle weight I am towing they always recommend the supplemental brakes for all towing"

Just an example of my question asked on a car tow under a certain weight. I had an 18.5 ft, SeaRay and it did not require any additional brake system. What I worried most about was the tow ball. I considered that more dangerous than a direct connection set up for a flat tow

When I upgraded to a new 2300 Sea Ray this was trailered on a dual axle trailer. Due to the weight this trailer was equipped with a surge brake in line on the towing of the trailer. Here it was a safety as well as a weight issue.

Towing my little car, when I asked the question, was basically like the boat trailering I mentioned above. In this case the small car behind a large rig? Brakes or no brakes based on the size and weight.

Thanks again and I will check with my Insurance on both vehicles now.

Thanks again for answering in a manner that was informative, respectful and understood my mindset as to if needed.

[Trkyte@msn.com]

If you look further into the laws you will find that some states require a break away system when towing four down.
Therefore regardless of the vehicle weight you’ll need a brake system.

[quantum]

Thanks,

All the comments make things easier to see the bigger picture.

Thanks

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Trkyte@msn.com

If you look further into the laws you will find that some states require a break away system when towing four down.
Therefore regardless of the vehicle weight you’ll need a brake system.

Excellent observation! That's why trailers have... trailer brakes.

[Harley97]

There are a few threads on this topic and they are filled with misinformation.

No state requires brakes on a TOAD. Your safety chains qualify as the break away system.

TOADS aren't trailers so aren't required brakes.

As far as safety, as long as you are towing within the tow limits of your rig, the brakes and rest of the RV will be able to handle it safely. Thats why they put those limits.

Also driving slower and keeping distance is important.

It is interesting that Blue Ox told you they aren't required. Most companies selling brakes and tow bars say they are required in order to sell more items.

Most of the people on here and other forums that say they are required reference those websites instead of the actual laws.

Someone will be along soon to say I am wrong. I've addressed this topic in depth on a couple threads so won't hijack this one to do it all again.

My advice is read the actual laws, which it seems you have, then decide if you feel the need to have a brake system or not. If you do, buy one, if not, don't. You'll be safe and legal either way.

[quantum]

Thanks,

I been driving a motorhome for many years, called an "expert"...Hahaa. No one is as a situation may arise. My question was always the road laws about brake systems and the safety of a small vehicle. Agree that is I wanted to pull my F250 it would be another matter with 6k pushing up the rear and more to consider on the weight. A good tow bar and chains to stop a run away will hold the vehicle but may caus damage to the rig if I need to stop on a break away. Slow going, slow stops and keeping distance is a #1 safety issue all the time with or without.

Now, I'm not saying safety would not increase with the braking system, as it would but as you stated the law is clear about tow weights and my car fits all those requirements.

Someone brought up a great point to check the insurance for towing. Again, I am also concerned about safety. But for the life of me I know I will again be critiqued as an expert for asking questions. The conversation is the best not the attacks.

Let me ask this question ?? Can those who toad a small, under 2900lbs, speak up and say if they use a break system when flat towing a tiny car with a larger 29' to 32' motorhome?

Yes I have done the research as this is my first time to flat tow since I began. Mostly due to rental costs now it's easier to take my go-cart along

[Trkyte@msn.com]

http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/u...aws-8.2012.pdf

This might help…

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by quantum

Let me ask this question ?? Can those who toad a small, under 2900lbs, speak up and say if they use a break system when flat towing a tiny car with a larger 29' to 32' motorhome?

I have towed my 2700 lb Sonic with my 16K F53 MH since April 2017 without a brake (not break) system over the south east but not in any "mountains". This combination easily meets any state's braking performance requirements.

Last year we traded my wife's 2015 CRV in and got a new Colorado 4x4 pickup which I have also setup to flat tow. It is close to 4500 lbs. and you can definitely tell the difference towing it. I purchased a Blue Ox Patriot 3 portable braking system to use when towing it which definitely makes stopping the Colorado easier.

I purchased an additional break-away kit and fitted the Sonic to use the Patriot 3 as well. I see no difference in towing the Sonic in normal braking situations as the braking system barely engages (it has a remote monitor in the MH) but I'm sure it will be beneficial in a true panic stop and maybe help in long descending mountain grades.

I have towed vehicles and trailers for as long as I have had a drivers license (50 years now) including a 19' Shasta TT with a 68 Rambler station wagon right after I got my license (family vacation - my father said I had to learn to tow sometime, might as well start now) and my first car towed by the same station wagon from the Maryland side of DC to the Virginia side on the beltway during rush hour because that car had a blown clutch when I bought it. So I have quite a bit of towing experience under my belt.

[quantum]

Dam auto correct.... LOL

For sure. Glad to hear your a honest person rom the experience. I also have the RV down but never trailered a car just boats behind my cars.

Travel safe. I also had a reply from someone with the same laws on towing that was from AAA. It is an affirmation of what I have been reading. I know for sure if I size a vehicle up in size and weight there is not question on the brakes being added