RV Hitch Capacity: Best Dumb Question

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

When my system was installed I caught the “anything installed for 59.00” special at Camping world. It cost 59.00 for each baseplate, InvisiBrake, wiring harness, and brake monitor.

There was an issue with the seven pin installed on the Jeep so the RoadMaster rep came to the house at no charge twice and rewired the plug.

Here is the link to the thread I started that includes parts list.

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f9/outfitting-2019-grand-cherokee-trailhawk-17552-2.html

I read your adventure in the linked thread. There are MANY connection points that quickly become difficult to find failure points if not done correctly. Crappy crimping is one of the hardest to find.

NO ONE would pay me by the hour to do an install for flat tow setup. All my crimps are soldered with shrink tubing... then tested for continuity. There are NO loose connections from the start... and they won't vibrate loose. This is EXACTLY why I do jobs like this myself, and it takes me ten times as long. Now... I'm no expert, but I KNOW the job is done correctly.

[Lt Keefer]

DK, I would suggest you look for a custom installer shop in your area. Here in Central Texas, we have Spillar Custom Hitch. They do all my custom fabricating. They are experts in building and installing hitches, base plates, custom racks for hunting and fishing rigs. Many ranchers, farmers and hunters use them for all kinds of outdoor custom builds. I'd bet there are a lot of highly qualified expert builders like Spillar in the D/FW area. Give a couple of them a ring and ask for quotes. Unlike Camping World, these kind of folks do a lot of work and most have solid reputations in the community.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

You shouldn't need a "charge line kit". One of the contacts on the 7-pin is specifically 12 volts. That's where I pulled power (fused of course) for the Jeep battery charging.

The light socket (actually a 6-way round receptacle) is because the base plate for my Jeep didn't have an integrated 6-way receptacle... I had to mount it on the Jeep base plate near the front bumper.

Look up 7-way RV to 6-way round cord on e-trailer. There's many videos showing complete wiring schematics, and what each pin is for.

Yep... it's sticker shock! And I thought $800 was outrageous for the brake system BACK THEN!!

Ahhhh, so you are talking the umbilical power cord?

On the Roadmaster Tow Bar model she recommended from etrailer; it comes with Roadmaster 146-7 Flexo-Coil 7-Wire to 6-Wire power Cord built into tow bar

https://www.etrailer.com/p-RM-676.html

So I can remove the charge line kit as not required assuming I buy that model.

But I don't see where the receptacle / wiring for the 6 wire end on the vehicle comes with what was quoted? I can't believe it is this hard

Seems like they should have packages that start with the standard 7pin RV plug to include all you need to properly connect to vehicle with brake with turn key pricing. This is turning into a buy at your own risk proposition, and I don't think I want or need the headache.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

When my system was installed I caught the “anything installed for 59.00” special at Camping world. It cost 59.00 for each baseplate, InvisiBrake, wiring harness, and brake monitor.

There was an issue with the seven pin installed on the Jeep so the RoadMaster rep came to the house at no charge twice and rewired the plug.

Here is the link to the thread I started that includes parts list.

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f9...k-17552-2.html

Thanks and good read. I am officially scared now. I think I need to call etrailer back and get 2nd opinion on what I have thus far. I then may need to call Roadmaster directly to the ensure the parts.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

DK, I would suggest you look for a custom installer shop in your area. Here in Central Texas, we have Spillar Custom Hitch. They do all my custom fabricating. They are experts in building and installing hitches, base plates, custom racks for hunting and fishing rigs. Many ranchers, farmers and hunters use them for all kinds of outdoor custom builds. I'd bet there are a lot of highly qualified expert builders like Spillar in the D/FW area. Give a couple of them a ring and ask for quotes. Unlike Camping World, these kind of folks do a lot of work and most have solid reputations in the community.

I was in Central Texas Monday ( Marble Falls, Temple & Kileen)

My plan was to quote everything I needed with etrailer, but it appears I have some bad information. My intent was to go to local installers once I knew what I needed and was sure I wanted to do. At this point, I am NOT all in. I would love to have the ability to flat tow the Navigator, but flat towing will be less than 5% of my actual usage. I was thinking for about $3k I could have this professionally done and my Navigator still looks luxury. Right now my guess is that this may be $5k

[Dan-sr@perra-us.net]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Do you know if when you flat tow, does the odometer increment up?

The toad does not record miles while being towed, if it is flat towable and you have followed the manufactures flat towing setup instructions. My 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee required the key in the ignition switched to the accessory position, however if you got it to the "RUN" position instead of the accessory position it would rack up miles.

[Chateau_Nomad]

The reason you don't see "turn key" packages is because there are so many different motorhome/toad combinations. Like all my projects, I spent over a month researching.

The FIRST question I needed to answer was "Am I capable of doing this myself... and do I WANT to do it myself?"

To answer this I, I broke everything down to three discreet "systems/components":
1) Towbar and associated hardware
2) Auxiliary brake an associated wiring
3) Tail light wiring

Towbars are generally classes by weight rating. The other features are bells & whistles... non-binding, etc.

Baseplates are specific to the toad vehicle, BUT must be compatible with the towbar.

Braking systems are generally independent of the whole setup. BUT, if you do an internal system, you may as well do the tail light wiring while at it.

Tail light wiring requires a THOROUGH knowledge of how the brake lights, turn signals and running lights work on YOUR toad. Some require diodes to prevent backflow/intermixing of the toad and motorhome electrical systems... some don't. The InvisiBrake and tail light wiring may seem daunting, but once done - you never mess with it again. You just connect your toad and off you go!

The umbilical is pretty standard. You'll need a 7-way to 6-way. It simply carries signals for the braking system, tail lights and toad battery charging.

NEXT: For each component, find the installation instructions online. Some are PDFs, some can be found on the manufacturers website, others have YouTube videos.

After you 90% understand the installation, make the decision whether you want to farm it or do it yourself. I say 90% because you will encounter subjective methods and gotchas... but I never found anything seriously problematic.

Honestly the most physical part was installing the baseplate on the Wrangler. A helper is strongly suggested! The rest was mostly stringing 12v wiring, soldering, finding holes to run wires through, sealing electrical connections (moisture proofing) and sealing body panel holes.

Like I said before, after the baseplate - I worked on this project just like an RV wax job... a little at a time.

The result you achieve is directly related to your attention to detail and how thorough and meticulous your work habits are.

Was it worth saving $800 - $1,000? Only you can answer that.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

The reason you don't see "turn key" packages is because there are so many different motorhome/toad combinations. Like all my projects, I spent over a month researching.

The FIRST question I needed to answer was "Am I capable of doing this myself... and do I WANT to do it myself?"

To answer this I, I broke everything down to three discreet "systems/components":
1) Towbar and associated hardware
2) Auxiliary brake an associated wiring
3) Tail light wiring

Towbars are generally classes by weight rating. The other features are bells & whistles... non-binding, etc.

Baseplates are specific to the toad vehicle, BUT must be compatible with the towbar.

Braking systems are generally independent of the whole setup. BUT, if you do an internal system, you may as well do the tail light wiring while at it.

Tail light wiring requires a THOROUGH knowledge of how the brake lights, turn signals and running lights work on YOUR toad. Some require diodes to prevent backflow/intermixing of the toad and motorhome electrical systems... some don't. The InvisiBrake and tail light wiring may seem daunting, but once done - you never mess with it again. You just connect your toad and off you go!

The umbilical is pretty standard. You'll need a 7-way to 6-way. It simply carries signals for the braking system, tail lights and toad battery charging.

You may have missed the question, but given the umbilical cord comes with a the Tow Bar, where the receptacle end & wiring come from that is mounting to the Towed vehicle? Seems like it would need to feed brakes and standard lights?

NEXT: For each component, find the installation instructions online. Some are PDFs, some can be found on the manufacturers website, others have YouTube videos.

After you 90% understand the installation, make the decision whether you want to farm it or do it yourself. I say 90% because you will encounter subjective methods and gotchas... but I never found anything seriously problematic.

Honestly the most physical part was installing the baseplate on the Wrangler. A helper is strongly suggested! The rest was mostly stringing 12v wiring, soldering, finding holes to run wires through, sealing electrical connections (moisture proofing) and sealing body panel holes.

Like I said before, after the baseplate - I worked on this project just like an RV wax job... a little at a time.


A wax job is more important than a damn Toad, cheaper too

The result you achieve is directly related to your attention to detail and how thorough and meticulous your work habits are.

Was it worth saving $800 - $1,000? Only you can answer that.

You just provided what I meant by turnkey packages. Not to say exact what to buy, but what you need End to End and maybe why. People who know what they want don't need and can search for the part, but a professional site, they should allow you to pick a package. i.e think first you select the Towing Vehicle so only options applicable for it show. It has a few questions like rated capacity and minimum rated capacity you need and shows you all the options they have to put into the package, then proceed with the towed vehicle, Base Plate, Tow bar, Brakes etc. Think like on a Lincoln webpage to order a new vehicle. It adds, deletes, subtract as you go. Maybe my beef should be at Roadmaster or Blue Ox?, but you should not require a Mechanical Degree in Hitch / Towing Systems from MIT to know what is needed or if even possible to tow Vehicle B with Vehicle A

About the only thing I know for sure is I would gladly pay $800 for a professional turnkey labor install, especially for Baseplate and Diode install on my Navigator. It has got to look good and not void my Lincoln warranty.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Dan-sr@perra-us.net

The toad does not record miles while being towed, if it is flat towable and you have followed the manufactures flat towing setup instructions. My 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee required the key in the ignition switched to the accessory position, however if you got it to the "RUN" position instead of the accessory position it would rack up miles.

Thanks. This is nice to know, if I ever get that far. I am not gonna pay 35% more because some of mfgs didn't know how to manage their supply chain inventories during pandemic crisis. Truth be told, I think most are just keeping prices high because people are still buying.

[Chateau_Nomad]

This:
Light Socket for Towed Vehicle
Blue Ox light socket BX294-0902
Compatible with Blue Ox Baseplate mounting
Etrailer.com $12.95

This is the 6-way receptacle which mounts on the front of the toad. The wiring comes partly from the "light wiring kit" and from the InvisiBrake (per their instructions). The 12v charge line is a wire you run yourself from the connector through a fuse to the toad battery.

There's diagrams online which show this wiring schematic.

AND... you are spot on... if people stopped buying stuff at artificially inflated prices, prices would drop. Note though that the motorhome heads haven't really dropped prices... dealers just started giving 28 - 30% discounts off inflated MSRP. The prices will NEVER go back down...

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I was in Central Texas Monday ( Marble Falls, Temple & Kileen)

My plan was to quote everything I needed with etrailer, but it appears I have some bad information. My intent was to go to local installers once I knew what I needed and was sure I wanted to do. At this point, I am NOT all in. I would love to have the ability to flat tow the Navigator, but flat towing will be less than 5% of my actual usage. I was thinking for about $3k I could have this professionally done and my Navigator still looks luxury. Right now my guess is that this may be $5k

If I remember, my last baseplate cost around $1200.00 to purchase and install. Everything else was a carry over from my previous setup. But that being said, every baseplate install I have seen on a vehicle with a front bumper cover is noticeable. Some more than others, but you can see where the tabs and safety cables connect to the dinghy. The front end will not look luxury after the base plate install. You will see it everytime you walk by.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

If I remember, my last baseplate cost around $1200.00 to purchase and install. Everything else was a carry over from my previous setup. But that being said, every baseplate install I have seen on a vehicle with a front bumper cover is noticeable. Some more than others, but you can see where the tabs and safety cables connect to the dinghy. The front end will not look luxury after the base plate install. You will see it everytime you walk by.

I occasionally see "nice cars" with base plates for towing in parking lots. Most have cutouts in plastic fascia for the towbar connections. Then I think about my 22 year old Wrangler. Somehow the hardware on the front of an older Jeep doesn't detract from it's image as much. I mean... the thing came with tow hooks factory installed ON TOP of the front bumper!

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I occasionally see "nice cars" with base plates for towing in parking lots. Most have cutouts in plastic fascia for the towbar connections. Then I think about my 22 year old Wrangler. Somehow the hardware on the front of an older Jeep doesn't detract from it's image as much. I mean... the thing came with tow hooks factory installed ON TOP of the front bumper!

That's what I meant. My first dinghy was a Isuzu Trooper II and my guy had to build a custom attachment that added to the vehicles 'rugged' appearance. The next four dinghies all had Blue Ox baseplates that required the front facias to be trimmed for the tabs. My wife says they look like gun barrels sticking out from the front of the car. Outside of a jeep or a truck with a custom bumper the baseplates do change the cosmetic appearance of the front end.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

If I remember, my last baseplate cost around $1200.00 to purchase and install. Everything else was a carry over from my previous setup. But that being said, every baseplate install I have seen on a vehicle with a front bumper cover is noticeable. Some more than others, but you can see where the tabs and safety cables connect to the dinghy. The front end will not look luxury after the base plate install. You will see it everytime you walk by.

I believe Roadmaster & Blue Ox both sell Base Plate with removable arms so they do not protrude past the bumper when not in use so they are hidden better. Additionally, I believe my Navigator has removable fascia akin to how they hide the hitch where when removed on front you can see the tow hooks. The baseplates removable arms will connect here as well. I believe you can cut the facial if you are a full time Toad Puller, but you can also put the fascia back on the bumper when not towing. So this means next time the Chateau Nomad is at Macys at the Galleria; and if he sees my Navigator he will not know that it is Toad in waiting or not


This is all new to me and border line complex. I did speak with WBGO today who confirmed that my plan was sound if I were to proceed. Their 5,000# hitch rating is their way of trying to keep those with 18,000 GVWR and CCWR of 23,000 from trying to tow over 5,000#. If I had bought the Thor Windsport, my hitch would be rated for 8,000#; but I would have the same 23,000# GCWR. WBGO actually defer me to Ford for Frame Extension specifications, but acknowledged the 800 or 900#s that I may add IF I ever tow the Navigator would be non issue. My next step before doing anything would be to get a scale weigh to be 100% sure that my normal full load and the curb weight of Navigator never exceeds 23,000. Otherwise I would not be true to my word to EAT37TS, as I have always maintained that a scale weigh is unnecessary unless you have a toad.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I occasionally see "nice cars" with base plates for towing in parking lots. Most have cutouts in plastic fascia for the towbar connections. Then I think about my 22 year old Wrangler. Somehow the hardware on the front of an older Jeep doesn't detract from it's image as much. I mean... the thing came with tow hooks factory installed ON TOP of the front bumper!

I think I lucked out here. My Navigator is 4X4 and the tow hooks are behind the fascia. The same fascia when removed allows access to insert the removable plates that fit into the base plate when needed. When not needed I just remove the plates and put fascia back on I hope anyway.

See pictures of instructions for Navigator; because some heavy users may cut out fascia anyway.

[Chateau_Nomad]

I'm definitely no expert, but I think hitch weight rating is more about COMBINED tongue weight and towed vehicle weight... and skewed more toward tongue weight.

Think about it... the force applied to a hitch when flat towing is FAR less than the stress of a hitch mounted trailer.

And that is probably what WBGO is giving you the "wink wink, nod nod" about.

That setup for the replaceable fascia looks sweet. My Wrangler base plate didn't have the option for the removable "twist lock" extensions... but most of those I've seen STILL have the baseplate connectors partially visible - depending on the car.

In the end it all comes down to personal preference.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I'm definitely no expert, but I think hitch weight rating is more about COMBINED tongue weight and towed vehicle weight... and skewed more toward tongue weight.

Think about it... the force applied to a hitch when flat towing is FAR less than the stress of a hitch mounted trailer.

And that is probably what WBGO is giving you the "wink wink, nod nod" about.

I believe there wink wink nod nod is letting me that yes i can replace the hitch with new hitch of 12,000# hitch rating as long as I know that I likely can only pull 6,000# or so stay under 23,000# GCWR.

I think WBGO was very clear that the current hitch mounted on my RV is only rated for 5,000# and I should NEVER exceed 5,000# weight with that hitch.

They wink because someone may get confused and add a 12,000 hitch and think they can tow / trailer whatever they want forgetting about the GCWR. In my case; they stated I clearly know my limit, and the max I would ever tow is 5800#

[Chateau_Nomad]

Weighing is definitely a good idea. My toad is only 3800# with a full tank, but I found I have the MH very close to the limit. Also knowing actual axle weight helps with loading and weight distribution. Note to self: NEVER buy an E-350 if an E-450 is available.

[Dan-sr@perra-us.net]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Thanks and good read. I am officially scared now. I think I need to call etrailer back and get 2nd opinion on what I have thus far. I then may need to call Roadmaster directly to the ensure the parts.

I paid about $2600.00 for a Roadmaster Nighthawk, the Baseplate, and a Roadmaster Invisibrake system at Camping World. I do not recall what the installation cost was because I also had some maintenance items done to my Motorhome. On note to consider, the Nighthawk comes with the safety cables, the light connection cable and locks for the hitch receiver, the Towbar connection pins, a towbar cover and a bag to store the toad drawbars. Also, on the My Gladiator the Steel Front skid plate under the front bumper had to be cut for clearance for the tow backets.

I would check very carefully to verify that the E-Trailer price includes all the things I got.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Dan-sr@perra-us.net

I paid about $2600.00 for a Roadmaster Nighthawk, the Baseplate, and a Roadmaster Invisibrake system at Camping World. I do not recall what the installation cost was because I also had some maintenance items done to my Motorhome. On note to consider, the Nighthawk comes with the safety cables, the light connection cable and locks for the hitch receiver, the Towbar connection pins, a towbar cover and a bag to store the toad drawbars. Also, on the My Gladiator the Steel Front skid plate under the front bumper had to be cut for clearance for the tow backets.

I would check very carefully to verify that the E-Trailer price includes all the things I got.

Very helpful. I think for the price of $2,600 installed, I would be moving forward versus smh. Can I ask how long ago was your pricing?

I have not talked with etrailer a 2nd time; rather just doing my own homework. From what I have learned from Thor Owner's Best... I believe I need the following see attached picture and cost.



Note 1 : It is only parts!!!
Note 2 : I have to upgrade my hitch (5k limit) consider my penalty for NOT buying a TMC Windsport - and to think some people actually complain about TMC



I am leaning toward a all Roadmaster based system. I thought I wanted Blue Ox, but their sites are confusing with info.

1. I am not sure I like the LED lights on the Night hawk? Maybe I would but just don't know any better right now. Seems excessive.

2. I don't like the Blue Ox silver removable plates, Roadmaster's are black and is better blend.

3. Blue Ox recommends that on my vehicle to go with external lights ( deal breaker for me, as that is not a point of a discussion)

4. Hard to price out a Blue Ox turnkey system ( my perception is it is company that plays marketing games and I hate those companies more than anything. Don't trick me into buying something and then fault me for not reading the fine print

FWIW, my Navigator does not require a cutout on fascia. For Heavy Duty Tow Package 4X4 Reserve which I have, It has a factory installed removable fascia that normally exposes the front Tow Hooks, If I install a Base Plate, the direct connect removable plates will replace the OEM tow hooks. My Navigator is black; so another reason why I like Roadmaster's removable plates; as it is a nice blend when towing.