RV Hitch Capacity: Best Dumb Question

[dkoldman]

Is it possible or necessary to replace a Class 3 Hitch rated at 5,000# to one that is at least 6,000#s?

I asked the question because I noticed that Blue Ox has a Baseplate for a Navigator that weighs in at 5,800#.

Material Facts for my RV...

GCWR = 23,000#
GVWR = 18,000#
Actual / nominal or calculated GVWR =17,000#

Is there anyway possible that I may flat tow a 5,800# vehicle with this RV as long as I am 100% assured that GCWR never exceeds 23,000#?

Or do I have to make a modification to the hitch to increase rating 1,000# more to flat a Navigator ( if that is even possible?)

[16ACE27]

I don't think you can go to 6000#. I think the next step is 8000#. You might be able to find a welding shop that will beef-up/certify your current hitch to 6000#, but why when you can get the additional safety margin with a true 8000# hitch.

[EA37TS]

Based on GV and GC find a TOAD that weights less. You should never max out at towing capacity.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Based on GV and GC find a TOAD that weights less. You should never max out at towing capacity.

This may sounds strange, but my motive is not to find a toad. I honestly think I can do without a toad (4 years now). However, if my current SUVs were flat towable, I would certainly entertain equipping them as such.

I just recently learned that Blue Ox has base plate / kits for Navigators. Since I happen to be a Navigator guy it has my attention. It is not like we go 3 month cross the country excursions. But a 2 hour trip here, a 5 hour trip there etc. Longest planned we have had since buying was 12 hours one way and that is exception. On that trip we would NOT have carried or wanted a Toad.

With that said, I think the junction of your reply and the Ace's is to say if I were to go down this road (pun intended); to not try to get a hitch beefed up and certified rated for 6,000#s; rather one rated for 8,000#. Technically, I only need 800# more beef on the hitch rating.

With the 5,800# Navigator; we would still be under the 23,000 GCWR, but what I would do after almost 4 years of rebellion, is go and have the CAT Scale weights done of my max loaded RV and my empty Navigator

I didn't know it was possible to add a 8,000# hitch to my RV? I have no idea of what it cost, but sounds like it will cost some dough? I am guessing it will cost $3,000 to make a Navigator flat towable with Blue Ox; and that is not including estimate for a new 8,000# hitch.

[Chateau_Nomad]

GCWR takes much more into account than just hitch rating. Brakes and stopping distance come to mind.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

GCWR takes much more into account than just hitch rating. Brakes and stopping distance come to mind.

Yes this true, but I am in no danger of going over the GCWR of 23,000 inclusive of the Navigator's weight. So I am good there and a scale weigh will confirm.

My concern is that on my coach the hitch a Class 3 is rated for 5,000#. Since the Navigator that would be flat towed is 5,800#s I would be over by 800#s; thus where my question / concern begins.

I have dolly towed a Chevy Cruze and several 6' X 12' Uhaul Trailers and if it were not for rear camera, I would forget they were back there. I never had a noticeable change in power or braking.

[dkoldman]

Do you know if when you flat tow, does the odometer increment up?

[Lt Keefer]

etrailer.com has hitches for as low as $200.00 that are listed to be a direct fit for a Winnebago Sunstar 29VE, as well as other models. They are rated for 1200# tongue weight and 12,000# towing. That would easily fit you needs. However, you would have to ask the coach manufacturer if your frames extension was rated for anything over the 5,000# listed in your coach's specs. The frame extension could be the weak link.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Lt Keefer

etrailer.com has hitches for as low as $200.00 that are listed to be a direct fit for a Winnebago Sunstar 29VE, as well as other models. They are rated for 1200# tongue weight and 12,000# towing. That would easily fit you needs. However, you would have to ask the coach manufacturer if your frames extension was rated for anything over the 5,000# listed in your coach's specs. The frame extension could be the weak link.

Oh wow. I didn't know this was possible and from looking under the RV, I guess it makes sense. That existing hitch looks like it just comes off with 3 bolts on each side. Only problem with the removal is the 4/7 pin adapter harness, looks like WBGO has welded a bracket onto hitch bar. So removing that weld to get bracket it off exceeds my capabilities. I would also be a little leery about installing the new hitch myself because it say some drilling is required.

It has been a long while since I have called WBGO; so can't wait to see what they say about the frame extension rating? eTrailer may know this as well.

Can't believe the jump from 5,000# to 12,000#? If I dump most of loose cargo, I may be able to tow 7,000# max. But I only need 5,800# and I can leave everything on board.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Do you know if when you flat tow, does the odometer increment up?

Not if it's flat tow capable and you follow the manufacturer's directions.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Funny thing about my Wrangler TJ, the drive line is disengaged but (per specific manual instructions) I leave the shifter in second gear to keep the tranny gears lubed. It's 20+ year old caveman technology... but the odo doesn't move.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Funny thing about my Wrangler TJ, the drive line is disengaged but (per specific manual instructions) I leave the shifter in second gear to keep the tranny gears lubed. It's 20+ year old caveman technology... but the odo doesn't move.

You keep the transmission in gear to prevent it from moving and damaging the transmission. The transfer case in neutral prevents direct turning of the transmission but tight tolerances could cause frictional turning of the tail shaft if the transmission was left in neutral as well.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

You keep the transmission in gear to prevent it from moving and damaging the transmission. The transfer case in neutral prevents direct turning of the transmission but tight tolerances could cause frictional turning of the tail shaft if the transmission was left in neutral as well.

Thanks for the clarification!

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Yes this true, but I am in no danger of going over the GCWR of 23,000 inclusive of the Navigator's weight. So I am good there and a scale weigh will confirm.

My concern is that on my coach the hitch a Class 3 is rated for 5,000#. Since the Navigator that would be flat towed is 5,800#s I would be over by 800#s; thus where my question / concern begins.

I have dolly towed a Chevy Cruze and several 6' X 12' Uhaul Trailers and if it were not for rear camera, I would forget they were back there. I never had a noticeable change in power or braking.

We always stay within the manufacturing guidelines. We used to flat tow our Escalade EVS 6200 pounds with the ARIA with no issue. We did buy the towing equipment with more than enough margin. No sense in pushing the limits.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by HMCSW

We always stay within the manufacturing guidelines. We used to flat tow our Escalade EVS 6200 pounds with the ARIA with no issue. We did buy the towing equipment with more than enough margin. No sense in pushing the limits.

I only have to worry about 5,800 lbs. Kind of hard to rationalize why a 5,000 lb hitch would be put on a RV? Some of the 12,000 lbs hitches look more flimsy than my 5,000 hitch. Make me wonder if it is actually rated for more than 5,000#, i.e. 6,000 or 8,000#s; but mfg says 5,000# so owners don't get confused and try to more than 5,000#s?

[dkoldman]

Should I be concerned with damage to from of Lincoln Navigator should I float tow it? I see these shields or guards and not sure I would want?

Also, the Roadmaster Tow bar I was looking at has LED lights. Is that really necessary? Looks gaudy? Would the Towed vehicle lights already be on?

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Should I be concerned with damage to from of Lincoln Navigator should I float tow it? I see these shields or guards and not sure I would want?

Also, the Roadmaster Tow bar I was looking at has LED lights. Is that really necessary? Looks gaudy? Would the Towed vehicle lights already be on?

Lights on a tow bar: Unnecessary.
Towed vehicle lights? You will be required to have standard "trailer" lights on the Toad: Stop, Turn, and Park. No front lights.
There are multiple options on getting those rear lights requirements met:

Connect to existing lights/harness.
Magnetic lights
Install dedicated bulbs in the existing rear light housings.

The Toad will get dirty, both inside the engine compartment and the front hood and fenders.

Rocks can get kicked up by the MH which may damage the front of the Toad or its windshield IF you have incorrect/insufficient mud flaps. Some people still use additional Toad guards like Protect-A-Tow.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Lights on a tow bar: Unnecessary.
Towed vehicle lights? You will be required to have standard "trailer" lights on the Toad: Stop, Turn, and Park. No front lights.
There are multiple options on getting those rear lights requirements met:

Connect to existing lights/harness.
Magnetic lights
Install dedicated bulbs in the existing rear light housings.

The Toad will get dirty, both inside the engine compartment and the front hood and fenders.

Rocks can get kicked up by the MH which may damage the front of the Toad or its windshield IF you have incorrect/insufficient mud flaps. Some people still use additional Toad guards like Protect-A-Tow.

This going to be harder than I thought; not to mention costly. I am at about $2,400 parts, no idea on labor yet. I have $300 added for new hitch.

Here is the tow bar
https://www.etrailer.com/p-RM-676.html


With Roadmaster brand I guess it is what you get. Roadmaster is a lot cheaper than Blue Ox

I think the Tow bar connects to existing round 7 pin connector and will have the lights needed controlled through the wiring install for Base Plate.

What confusing is that it looks as if you have to have a 2nd 7 pin connector connected to the RV to control the brakes?

Your comment " The Toad will get dirty, both inside the engine compartment and the front hood and fenders. Rocks can get kicked up by the MH which may damage the front of the Toad or its windshield IF you have incorrect/insufficient mud flaps. " may give me pause.

This would be Lincoln Navigator and I am kinda of a clean detail nut. Not to mention the windshield has a Head Up Display so expensive to replace. I will have to Google Protect a Tow.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

This going to be harder than I thought; not to mention costly. I am at about $2,400 parts, no idea on labor yet. I have $300 added for new hitch.

Here is the tow bar
https://www.etrailer.com/p-RM-676.html
Attachment 40796

With Roadmaster brand I guess it is what you get. Roadmaster is a lot cheaper than Blue Ox

I think the Tow bar connects to existing round 7 pin connector and will have the lights needed controlled through the wiring install for Base Plate.

What confusing is that it looks as if you have to have a 2nd 7 pin connector connected to the RV to control the brakes?

Your comment " The Toad will get dirty, both inside the engine compartment and the front hood and fenders. Rocks can get kicked up by the MH which may damage the front of the Toad or its windshield IF you have incorrect/insufficient mud flaps. " may give me pause.

This would be Lincoln Navigator and I am kinda of a clean detail nut. Not to mention the windshield has a Head Up Display so expensive to replace. I will have to Google Protect a Tow.

Towbar does not connect to the 7 pin. The umbilical cord attaches to the seven pin to control lights and possibly brakes depending on the braking system installed.

Protect a tow, IMHO, is a waste of money. 20k miles towing our Grand Cherokee the past two years and not a scratch due to towing. Only damage has been from a campground employee running into the front of the car with a golf cart while the were watching the ground instead of where they were going.

[Chateau_Nomad]

A "plug and go" setup takes much more effort up front - AND it's more of a hit cash-wise. Just like AGM vs FLA batteries, more upfront, but no-mess or fuss later.

Of course you can do a self install to save over $1,000... but it's a knuckle buster... and time/effort studying up on 12 volt systems. But then you KNOW it's done right. For me it was worth the extra effort of installing an internal hidden auxiliary braking system AND wiring the tail lights to "just work".

From experience, your toad will get VERY dirty... especially when raining. STRONGLY urge investing in properly designed mudflaps/mitigation - but don't count on 100%. Something to consider...

I'd guess a "proper" full install with all needed equipment will push $5k today. I'm guessing between $800 - $1k is labor. I'll make you a deal... you help me install my lithium battery system and I'll give you free consulting on your tow setup!!