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Old 06-14-2019, 12:04 AM   #1
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To TOAD - Or Not to TOAD?

That is the question....

We'll be replacing a POV sometime in the next 3 to 9 months. Several factors will definitely come into play for selection of the replacement - price, reliability, MPG and warranty are probably the most important for us to consider - along with potential TOAD capability, which we've never done before.

Our 2015 Windsport 27k, F53 chassis w/V10 has (theoretically) a towing capacity of somewhere close to 5000 pounds. Don't ask for the math...not my forte and irrelevant to my question.

Warranty and MPG - the manufacturers out there with the best warranty (and often the best MPG) seem to be Kia, Hyundai and Mitsubishi. Yet all of these brands are conspicuously absent from the most recent MH Magazine / Good Sam Dinghy Guide.

Is this an oversight? Are there truly no flat-tow 2019 vehicles available from these guys? Or is this something else, like "who paid to be reviewed"?

We're not committed to the idea of purchasing specifically to ensure TOAD capability since we're not full time and have rental options when traveling. Also not committed to the going with any of these manufacturers.

But to consider both options, would love to hear what others might know.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:54 AM   #2
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There's a long thread called "Car in tow, what's yours?" under the tech forums topic. You are smart to check the MH Dinghy Guide. There are several brands that are missing there. Some models, like Honda CRV were popular, but now off the list because of transmission changes.

We have towed two Mazda Miatas for combined mileage well over 50,000. Neither of them were on the list, but I have come across others towing Miatas. and other cars that are off the list. Both of my cars were off warranty.

I think some manufacturers worry that allowing towing will cost them more warranty repairs. Any car with a CVT cant be towed (continuous variable transmission).

Have you considered a dolly or a flat trailer?
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:09 AM   #3
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It isn't necessarily true that any car with a CVT can't be towed: All the Ford hybrids are flat towable (Fusion Hybrid, Fusion Energi, C-Max Hybrid, C-Max Energi (of course you can't get either of those anymore), Mkz Hybrid). Ford calls those transmissions ECVT if I remember correctly.
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:07 AM   #4
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Good point, Jamie. Those ECVT transmissions are a different animal than the CVT. The earlier technology CVT use a chain or belt, and the ECVT uses electric motors.
I had a Prius for years, with the ECVT, and Toyota says Prius can't be towed. I have to wonder if it's all because Toyota doesn't want extra warranty claims. Or if serious damage would occur if you flat towed it.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:56 AM   #5
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I have always found this a great reference.

Downloadable Dinghy Towing Guides | MotorHome Magazine

This was a big help in getting me to my Chevy Sonic (automatic, towed 4 down).

No toad was not an option. I get to a new place I have to explore and see the sights.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:29 AM   #6
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Besides the various guides there is Remcon Towing.

This is an online application that will not generate a list of every vehicle that is or is not towable. Instead you will need to select the year, make, model, drive, engine and transmission type to see if the vehicle is towable. The data base goes as far back in time as 1996. Besides a Go/No-Go on four down towing it will also provide possible options for the NO-Go vehicle such as driveshaft disconnects, lubrication pumps or if a dolly is in your future or if only way to take long is on a trailer.

I used the app for advance research prior to buying my last daily driver which will someday end up behind the coach when the current toad has reached its reliability limit.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:37 PM   #7
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Good point, Jamie. Those ECVT transmissions are a different animal than the CVT. The earlier technology CVT use a chain or belt, and the ECVT uses electric motors.
I had a Prius for years, with the ECVT, and Toyota says Prius can't be towed. I have to wonder if it's all because Toyota doesn't want extra warranty claims. Or if serious damage would occur if you flat towed it.
Toyota may not be the only ones. Either last year, or the year before, about the mid-year point, FMCA had a discussion with Subaru and were told that Subaru no longer recommended any of their cars, regardless of transmission, be flat towed behind a motor home. Prior to that decision you could flat tow most of their cars with manual transmissions. FMCA sent out a message to members with a mid year update to their towing guide.

That Subaru decision and the way it happened had all the makings of a "cover their butts" decision.
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Old 07-29-2019, 03:26 AM   #8
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Would you consider 6 speed manual trans? If so we pull a Mini Paceman 2013 3000 pounds, no elect brake. I don’t e ven know it’s back there other then high winds when moving around.
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Old 07-29-2019, 12:39 PM   #9
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"To TOAD - Or Not to TOAD?"
We're right in the middle of this "muddle" ourselves...

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Old 07-29-2019, 01:22 PM   #10
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As long as we remain more travelers than campers, and itís just the two of us who prefer a small camper, I canít see wanting to pull a toad.

I recall once staying in one place for a week where a car was nice to have, but thatís rare for us. And even if we had to rent a car for a week a couple of times a year, it would still be preferable and perhaps cheaper for us than to own and pull a toad.

Weíve used regular bikes, and may consider a scooter someday, but between small camper, rental cars, and Ubers, I doubt Iíll ever want the inconvenience of a toad. Just personal preference ó itís very subjective.
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Old 07-29-2019, 01:41 PM   #11
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I agree; it comes down to the individual needs of the RVers.
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:18 PM   #12
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I towed a 26í TT for a number of years so when we got the motorhome it was a no brainer to us to get a Toad.
My problem is, Iíve got too many vehicles.
Iím looking to consolidate.
Currently we have an SUV that can carry 4 passengers plus DWís mobility scooter and walker. It canít be towed.
The Toad is a Jeep Liberty that, when traveling, will only carry two people plus the above mentioned equipment.
Iíd like to find something that can serve both purposes.
The problem is finding a vehicle that can transport 4-5 people and her mobility equipment and be able to be towed 4 down.
So far, the only vehicles that appear to be able to do both is a GMC Canyon crew cab, long bed AWD or a Dodge Durango RT AWD w/2 speed transfer case.
Both fall into the 5,000 lb curb weight range which shouldnít be an issue since the MH can tow up to 8,000 lbs.
I donít want a trailer or a dolly because of the ďwhere do you put it?Ē question at campgrounds.
Would appreciate any suggestions or comments on other options.
Thanks.
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:52 PM   #13
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Chevy Sonic Sedan. Seats 4-6, 2,800 - 2,900 lbs. Great towing 4-down toad and get-around car. It ain’t fancy, but it’ll do what you need it to do.
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Old 07-29-2019, 03:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by LandKO View Post
I towed a 26í TT for a number of years so when we got the motorhome it was a no brainer to us to get a Toad.
My problem is, Iíve got too many vehicles.
Iím looking to consolidate.
Currently we have an SUV that can carry 4 passengers plus DWís mobility scooter and walker. It canít be towed.
The Toad is a Jeep Liberty that, when traveling, will only carry two people plus the above mentioned equipment.
Iíd like to find something that can serve both purposes.
The problem is finding a vehicle that can transport 4-5 people and her mobility equipment and be able to be towed 4 down.
So far, the only vehicles that appear to be able to do both is a GMC Canyon crew cab, long bed AWD or a Dodge Durango RT AWD w/2 speed transfer case.
Both fall into the 5,000 lb curb weight range which shouldnít be an issue since the MH can tow up to 8,000 lbs.
I donít want a trailer or a dolly because of the ďwhere do you put it?Ē question at campgrounds.
Would appreciate any suggestions or comments on other options.
Thanks.
Have you looked into the Ford Flex?
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Old 07-29-2019, 04:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post

Weíve used regular bikes, and may consider a scooter someday, but between small camper, rental cars, and Ubers, I doubt Iíll ever want the inconvenience of a toad. Just personal preference ó itís very subjective.
This past weekend we took a short trip to Mystic, CT. We debated having the DW drive the car down (it's only 125 miles) vs renting when we got there vs unhooking and taking the Vegas.

The first day we drove directly to the Submarine Base Museum in Groton, knowing they had parking specifically for RVs. Then drove back to Mystic (15 miles) and our campground. The next day we used an Uber to get to the Mystic Aquarium and back to the campground. We waited less than 10 minutes each way and it cost a grand total of $25.00. Can't beat it.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:20 PM   #16
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Yeah, i figure Iíd have to spend close to 10 minutes each to connect and disconnect a toad, and for $2,500 you can pay for a lot of Uber or rentals.

On the other hand I know that if one was going to use the car often during the day for multiple trips it would get more expensive, and less convenient to Uber. At that point a rental may be better.

Mostly I would like a toad in case of an emergency or breakdown on an isolated road, but that is not enough of an incentive as long as MH is in range of 24 feet or less. At that length I can find parking often enough that a car isnít needed as much.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:53 PM   #17
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Have you looked into the Ford Flex?
No I havenít, but I will look.
Here is my dilemma
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The mobility scooter and walker take up most of the cargo and third row seating areas, thus leaving only the second and first row seating.
The Ford Flex and Dodge Durango have about 43 cu Ft of space if the third row seats are folded down. The Pickups (long bed) has about 50 cu Ft of space.
My current SUV , with the third row seats stowed, has almost 70 cu Ft available.
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:02 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
As long as we remain more travelers than campers, and itís just the two of us who prefer a small camper, I canít see wanting to pull a toad.

I recall once staying in one place for a week where a car was nice to have, but thatís rare for us. And even if we had to rent a car for a week a couple of times a year, it would still be preferable and perhaps cheaper for us than to own and pull a toad.

Weíve used regular bikes, and may consider a scooter someday, but between small camper, rental cars, and Ubers, I doubt Iíll ever want the inconvenience of a toad. Just personal preference ó itís very subjective.
Hey Chance ! good to hear from you ! As most everyone knows, we have towed motorcycles for many years and just made the switch to a Wrangler Sport TJ .. as we aged, the motorcycle was less desirable when we were at our destination...we bought an older model got her setup to tow and LOVE THAT JEEP !! Now, when we arrive at our destination, we unhook and can literally, go anywhere we want at the drop of a hat ! Weather is not a factor . Our family sez we are in our second childhood ! SO MY MESSAGE TO ANYONE WHO IS THINKING ABOUT A TOAD...if you can afford it..DO IT!
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:17 PM   #19
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Not a Jeep; but it's almost a cute!

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1564784244
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Old 08-03-2019, 02:44 AM   #20
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Not a Jeep; but it's almost a cute!

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1564784244
how SWEET that is ! you two found a winner !!!
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